Once saved always saved

[PinSeeker]

I don't believe that we don't have free will.

Nobody does... or at least nobody should believe that we don't have free will. But there is a certain sense in which our will is not free, but in bondage. We are, at any point in time ~ depending on whether we are born again of God's Spirit or not ~ slaves to unrighteousness or to righteousness.

I believe God predestined us...

Yes, we can't avoid that; Paul says we Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus, and this cannot be by anyone, much less ourselves, other than God. As I'm sure you know, Kayla, Paul says this predestination is of/by God in Romans 8:29 ~ "those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..." ~ and in Ephesians 1 ~ "...He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ..."

...but we have to choose it.

Ah. We cannot choose predestination, else it is not predestination at all, but a "post-destination," and there is no such thing. As Paul says in Romans 9-14-18 of God's ~ God's ~ elect, "Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! ...it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy... He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

Nobody is saying we don't or can't make a choice, but only that it depends first on God, not on us. If we have to choose predestination, then God's grace is not really grace at all, which Paul says explicitly in Romans 11:5-6 ~ "there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace" ~ and is contrary to what Paul says in Ephesians 2:4-9 ~ "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works..."

I struggle with skitzaffective disorder...

So sorry to hear that.

...it tells me God damned me.

If God has had this mercy and compassion on you, it will never be taken away. "The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). "He Who began a good work in you will..." ~ will, not 'might' ~ "...bring it to completion at the day of Christ" (Philippians 1:6). "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1), and, again, "the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). "Jesus is the author and perfecter/finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2). God "has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).

I'm a Christian and romans 10:12 says anyone who calls on the name of the lord and means it will be and is saved.

Ah yes, but Paul is referring directly to Joel 2:32 there, where Joel tells us that those who call on the name of the Lord do so because God calls them: "...everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls."

You see?

Grace and peace to you, Christian!

 

[PinSeeker]

The doctrine of free will is a lie from Satan.

No, many people just... don't really get it. We get what we choose, regarding salvation. Everyone gets what he or she chooses.

But our choice is dependent on something: the state of our heart... the spirit we have... so, whether God has given us a new spirit, and His Holy Spirit... or not. This is what God does. He has mercy and compassion on whom He will do so, and if He does, then He gives us this new spirit... and we are born again of the Holy Spirit. Then, and only then, do we choose ~ and freely so ~ to follow Jesus, Who says, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10).

Grace and peace to you, FWD.

 

[Kayla McCanny]

No, many people just... don't really get it. We get what we choose, regarding salvation. Everyone gets what he or she chooses.

But our choice is dependent on something: the state of our heart... the spirit we have... so, whether God has given us a new spirit, and His Holy Spirit... or not. This is what God does. He has mercy and compassion on whom He will do so, and if He does, then He gives us this new spirit... and we are born again of the Holy Spirit. Then, and only then, do we choose ~ and freely so ~ to follow Jesus, Who says, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10).

Grace and peace to you, FWD.

I agree. I pray God would talk to me personally, but I know the holy spirit gives me the mind of christ to discern in faith that he talks to me even though I hear the demon and not God's voice audibly. I have faith he does in my dreams and subconscious. It's just something I struggle with. I believe in free will. I also believe the holy spirit guides us to christ Jesus our mediator to God our father. I'm leaning to once saved always saved, but I'm a little unsure, but I definitely believe in free will and I'm not hear to argue free will or discussing it rather osas. Not arguing, but discussing.

 

[FaithWillDo]

No, many people just... don't really get it. We get what we choose, regarding salvation. Everyone gets what he or she chooses.

But our choice is dependent on something: the state of our heart... the spirit we have... so, whether God has given us a new spirit, and His Holy Spirit... or not. This is what God does. He has mercy and compassion on whom He will do so, and if He does, then He gives us this new spirit... and we are born again of the Holy Spirit. Then, and only then, do we choose ~ and freely so ~ to follow Jesus, Who says, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10).

Grace and peace to you, FWD.

Dear Pinseeker,
No, most believers (and they are "many") do not get what they choose:

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Christ teaches His New Covenant truths "here a little, and there a little". You cannot pick out one verse of scripture and say that is the whole of the matter.

The reason that the believers in the scripture above (those who chose Christ) are rejected is because they, like you, believe in the doctrine of free will. Only God the Father has a free will ability. When a believer says that they are sovereign, they have elevated themselves to be equal with God. Paul calls this type of believer a "man of sin" - one who is under the governance of the spirit of anti-Christ.

Scripture teaches that God alone chooses who to save and when to save them. He then does 100% of the spiritual work to cause it to happen. The individual has no say in the matter.

Did Paul have any say in the matter of His conversion? No. Paul hated Christ and had no intention of becoming one of His followers. However, all that changed for Paul in an instance of time. Unless Christ comes to a person and gives them the same gift, they will remain an unbeliever until they die.

After Paul was given the Early Rain, Paul became a babe in Christ and entered the church. However, the Early Rain did not spiritually convert Paul. Paul was left spiritually blind and unable to consume the bread and wine of the New Covenant. In this condition, Paul fell away just as all babes do. But since Paul was one of the elect, Christ "came again" to Paul and poured out the Latter Rain, followed by the judgment of the Day of the Lord. After this judgment was complete, Paul was converted and saved.

Most believers will remain unconverted babes their entire lives. Christ will not return to them with salvation for the simple reason that they were not chosen for salvation in this age.

You should read my post #297. It teaches the truth about salvation.

Joe

 

[PinSeeker]

Dear Pinseeker,
No, most believers (and they are "many") do not get what they choose:

They do. They always do. But, as I said, the choice they make is dependent first on something from outside themselves, whether it is given to them or not. Read what Paul says in Romans 1 and 2 (again; I'm sure you have many times). God says that those who do not believe have "exchanged the truth for a lie," which is a voluntary action of choice on their part, and therefore God has "given them over to their own selfish passions and desires." They get what they have chosen. And so do we Christians, who have been born again by the Spirit and are therefore no longer dead in our sin... and get what we now have chosen because of this. Everyone gets what he or she chooses, it's just that our choice is not the first cause of our salvation or lack thereof... there is a reason that we have made or make the choice we make, but make it, one way or the other, we do.

...they, like you, believe in the doctrine of free will. Only God the Father has a free will ability.

Ahhh well to this I would say the issue is not free will but autonomy, which is the quality or state of being independent, free, and self-directing... a "free agent," if you will. Only God is autonomous.

When a believer says that they are sovereign, they have elevated themselves to be equal with God.

Not all of whom you say "believe in the doctrine of free will" believe this. I do agree that some do, maybe without even realizing it. But I wholeheartedly agree that no person is sovereign over anything, even themselves, in the manner that God is sovereign over all of His creation.

Scripture teaches that God alone chooses who to save and when to save them.

Absolutely.

He then does 100% of the spiritual work to cause it to happen. The individual has no say in the matter.

Right, I ~ and many others ~ would say the exact same thing. But if God does this spiritual work... <smile> ...then ~ and only then, but also inevitably ~ we will choose... rightly. <smile>

Unless Christ comes to a person and gives them the same gift, they will remain an unbeliever until they die.

Well, yes... unless God gives them to Christ... gives them His Spirit. Absolutely.

Most believers will remain unconverted babes their entire lives.

This is kind of an odd sentence. <smile> If they are believers, they have been converted. Anyone unconverted is not a believer.

You should read my post #297. It teaches the truth about salvation.

I did. Just like in this post of yours, there's... some... truth in there... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Joe.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pope/Vatican is good at controlling the finances of all it's branches who wont look a gift horse in the mouth - a good way of keeping members in line

Hmmm . . .

MAYBE that's because the Catholic Church is the LARGEST charitable organization in the WORLD.

Every day, the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, shelters and educates more people than ANY organizatioon the PLANET – public OR private.

Charities run by the Church include more than 5,305 hospitals including 1695 in the Americas and over 1,150 in Africa.

The Church also has 18,179 clinics including 5,762 in the Americas and 5,312 in Africa, alonog with 3,884 in Asia.

It also manages more than 17,300 homes for the elderly, the terminally ill and the handicapped – most of them (8,021) in Europe and the Americas (5,650).

The Church also runs 9,882 orphanages – a THIRD of them in Asia.
So, maybe you should check your falsehoods at the door . . .

Add to that that the rcc tells them theres no salvation outside the rcc also.

The cc tells unbelievers that they can keep their religions and by extension gods and will still go to heaven because the rcc has purgatory which then deny the one who bought them Jesus.... the rcc climbs up another way and is a thief and robber... so the unbeliever is told he doesnt need Jesus because purgatory will sufice

The catholic is told purgatory and belonging to the church will sufice while the chistian has to denouce his bellief in christ and accept the rcc's way...

A ridiculously dishonest and contradictory post, to say the least . . .

FIRST of all, you say that the “Roman” Catholic Church demands membership in it because without is, you cannot be saved.
LIES #1 $ 2

It is simply, “The Catholic Church”. Ronan or Latin is just the name of the RITE – of which there are over TWENTY Rites that comprise the ONE Catholic Church, and they are ALL in communion with each other. The differences between the Rites are largely cultural – NOT doctrinal.

No salvation outside the Church does NOT demand membership in the Catholic Church. TheChurch is simply recognizing that the non-Catholic factions of Protestantism splintered off from the Original Tree that is the Catholic Church. – and continue to endlessly splinter off from each other. There are countless christians who never rejected the Church

You go ON to say that “the unbeliever is told he doesnt need Jesus because purgatory will suffice”.
LIE #3


The Biblical concept of Final Purification (Purgatory) is NOT a “different” way to get to Heaven other than Jesus. Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or purgation is necessary for some before entering heaven. Those going through this process will indeed enter into heaven - BECAUSE of the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.

It is indeed a Biblical concept (Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59 )

Scripture also speaks of God as the greet Refiner, who purifies the raw minerals to get to the refined gold and silver.


THEN you say that we tell other non-Christian religions that they can “keep their religions and by extension gods” and will still go to heaven.
LIE #4 – and contradiction #1.

First of all – this is patently FALSE.
Secondly - how can the Church demand that you become a Catholic in order to be saved – yet ALLOW you to hang onto your paganism?

Please do some homework before continuing to comment on thisngs you have NO idea about . . .

 

[FaithWillDo]

They do. They always do. But, as I said, the choice they make is dependent first on something from outside themselves, whether it is given to them or not. Read what Paul says in Romans 1 and 2 (again; I'm sure you have many times). God says that those who do not believe have "exchanged the truth for a lie," which is a voluntary action of choice on their part, and therefore God has "given them over to their own selfish passions and desires." They get what they have chosen. And so do we Christians, who have been born again by the Spirit and are therefore no longer dead in our sin... and get what we now have chosen because of this. Everyone gets what he or she chooses, it's just that our choice is not the first cause of our salvation or lack thereof... there is a reason that we have made or make the choice we make, but make it, one way or the other, we do.


Ahhh well to this I would say the issue is not free will but autonomy, which is the quality or state of being independent, free, and self-directing... a "free agent," if you will. Only God is autonomous.


Not all of whom you say "believe in the doctrine of free will" believe this. I do agree that some do, maybe without even realizing it. But I wholeheartedly agree that no person is sovereign over anything, even themselves, in the manner that God is sovereign over all of His creation.


Absolutely.


Right, I ~ and many others ~ would say the exact same thing. But if God does this spiritual work... <smile> ...then ~ and only then, but also inevitably ~ we will choose... rightly. <smile>


Well, yes... unless God gives them to Christ... gives them His Spirit. Absolutely.


This is kind of an odd sentence. <> If they are believers, they have been converted. Anyone unconverted is not a believer.


I did. Just like in this post of yours, there's... some... truth in there... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Joe.

Dear Pinseeker,
You made this statement to Kayla about free will: Nobody does... or at least nobody should believe that we don't have free will.

You just confirmed that you believe in the Doctrine of Free Will. If you have a free will, then you are saying that you are sovereign because that is what having a free will means.

I have had some believers tell me that they have a "limited" free will, but that makes no sense at all. How can a person's will be free and limited at the same time???

Consider this:

If a person believes that they have an ability to choose Christ apart from Christ causing it to happen, they believe in free will.

If a person does not believe that the elect have been chosen from the foundation of the world prior to them doing anything, then they believe in free will.

If a person believes that other people besides the elect can be saved in this age, they believe in free will.

If a person believes that they made a decision for Christ without first being given the Early Rain, they believe in free will.

If a person believes that a person who rejects Christ does so by their own decision making, then they believe in free will.

You said: This is kind of an odd sentence. <> If they are believers, they have been converted. Anyone unconverted is not a believer.

When was Paul converted & saved? Was it on the Damascus Road or was it three days later when the was given the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

On the Damascus Road, Paul called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority over his life. Paul chose Christ as this time but his choice was not his own. Paul's choice was caused by the Early Rain within Paul that Christ had just freely given to him.

Scripture says that it was the Early Rain that prepared Paul's heart so that Paul would call Jesus "Lord":

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? (shows Paul's spiritual blindness) And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecute: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Paul just called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority). And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

How can we know that Paul was given the Early Rain on the Damascus Road? This is how:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Was Paul converted and saved at that time? No, but Paul did become a babe in Christ.

Conversion requires Christ to give a person the Early Rain, followed by a time of waiting (typed by Paul's three day is in Damascus). After the time of waiting is complete, Christ must come again to the person and pour out the Latter Rain. The Latter Rain will birth the new child of God who will then be spiritually gathered to heaven (Mat 24:29-31). After the new birth, Christ will appear to the person because the scales have fallen from their eyes. Christ will then commence the judgment of the Day of the Lord. This judgment is for the purpose of removing and destroying the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (she represents the person carnal and religious spiritual nature) that still remains within the person. After the spirit of anti-Christ is removed, the person's spiritual governance will come only from the Holy Spirit. And after the Great Harlot is removed, the person's spiritual nature will become a "virtuous woman" (represents their new divine spiritual nature that comes from the Holy Spirit).

Christ describes the conversion process below:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field (contained in one flesh); the one shall be taken (child of the devil/spirit of anti-Christ), and the other left (child of God/Holy Spirit). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill (contained in one flesh); the one shall be taken (Great Harlot), and the other left (Virtuous woman).

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

For the babes who were not chosen (the "many"), they will remain an unconverted babe who previously fell from grace when they began following Satan's gospel that mixes works with faith.

Have you ever noticed how Paul addressed some of his letters?

1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints (babes), with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints (babes): Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints (converted elect/no longer babes) which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful (unconverted babes who were remaining faithful) in Christ Jesus:

Same thing here:

Col 1:2 To the saints AND faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Joe

 

[Kayla McCanny]

Can we talk about osas, not free will because I not a Calvinist. I don't believe God damned my life like what is being told to me by a demon. I'm a Christian struggling with spiritual warfare and we all choose. I just want to know if osas is true. I think I believe as long as someone doesn't commit suicide and is a Christian than they go to heaven. I'm leaning on osas. From some scripture I have been reading. That God disciples those he loves and we are still his children when he corrects and disciplines us.

 

[Dryhn]

Hmmm . . .

MAYBE that's because the Catholic Church is the LARGEST charitable organization in the WORLD.

Every day, the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, shelters and educates more people than ANY organizatioon the PLANET – public OR private.

Charities run by the Church include more than 5,305 hospitals including 1695 in the Americas and over 1,150 in Africa.

The Church also has 18,179 clinics including 5,762 in the Americas and 5,312 in Africa, alonog with 3,884 in Asia.

It also manages more than 17,300 homes for the elderly, the terminally ill and the handicapped – most of them (8,021) in Europe and the Americas (5,650).

The Church also runs 9,882 orphanages – a THIRD of them in Asia.
So, maybe you should check your falsehoods at the door . . .

A ridiculously dishonest and contradictory post, to say the least . . .

FIRST of all, you say that the “Roman” Catholic Church demands membership in it because without is, you cannot be saved.
LIES #1 $ 2

It is simply, “The Catholic Church”. Ronan or Latin is just the name of the RITE – of which there are over TWENTY Rites that comprise the ONE Catholic Church, and they are ALL in communion with each other. The differences between the Rites are largely cultural – NOT doctrinal.

No salvation outside the Church does NOT demand membership in the Catholic Church. TheChurch is simply recognizing that the non-Catholic factions of Protestantism splintered off from the Original Tree that is the Catholic Church. – and continue to endlessly splinter off from each other. There are countless christians who never rejected the Church

You go ON to say that “the unbeliever is told he doesnt need Jesus because purgatory will suffice”.
LIE #3


The Biblical concept of Final Purification (Purgatory) is NOT a “different” way to get to Heaven other than Jesus. Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or purgation is necessary for some before entering heaven. Those going through this process will indeed enter into heaven - BECAUSE of the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.

It is indeed a Biblical concept (Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59 )

Scripture also speaks of God as the greet Refiner, who purifies the raw minerals to get to the refined gold and silver.


THEN you say that we tell other non-Christian religions that they can “keep their religions and by extension gods” and will still go to heaven.
LIE #4 – and contradiction #1.

First of all – this is patently FALSE.
Secondly - how can the Church demand that you become a Catholic in order to be saved – yet ALLOW you to hang onto your paganism?

Please do some homework before continuing to comment on thisngs you have NO idea about . . .

Left right left right left right, keep up the RC DDD - delusional denominational dogma march

 

[BreadOfLife]

Left right left right left right, keep up the RC DDD - delusional denominational dogma march

Thanks for that NON-response.
I understand that it can be humiliating to be caught with your theological and historical pants down . . .

Just do some actual homework before posting.

 

[Dryhn]

Can we talk about osas, not free will because I not a Calvinist. I don't believe God damned my life like what is being told to me by a demon. I'm a Christian struggling with spiritual warfare and we all choose. I just want to know if osas is true. I think I believe as long as someone doesn't commit suicide and is a Christian than they go to heaven. I'm leaning on osas. From some scripture I have been reading. That God disciples those he loves and we are still his children when he corrects and disciplines us.

If you place your trust & belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ you ARE saved, you ARE justified, you ARE HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
Suicide ? Where does Christ through Paul teach that stops a person from entering Heaven ?

 

[Dryhn]

Thanks for that NON-response.
I understand that it can be humiliating to be caught with your theological and historical pants down . . .

Just do some actual homework before posting.

Done my RC homework.
Enjoy your left right left right left right RC march

 

[WHO ME]

the willful sin in this passage is to willfully reject christ.

Person sin is not in mention here

Anyone who thinks when they sin it is not willful is fooling themselves.

An unbeliever willfully sins but once you are saved there is a sacrifice for your sins, if you go back to willfully sinning there is no more a sacrifice.... thats why at the end of that chapter it says - but we (saved believer) are not those who fall back to destruction.... only a believer could fall back to destruction... the dog has returned to its destruction just like the sow which became clean by being saved now returns to its destruction (pollutions).

Thats why the verse before that says its better to have not known the way of righteousness then to have known it and fall away because the verse before that says that once youve escaped the pollutions (destrution - vomit) of the world thru - A Lord and Saviior Jesud Christ (saved believer) and are then entangled and overcome again (willfully sinning) you are now worst off than at the begining (at the begining your were unsaved in the pollutions of the world and hadnt escape thru a savior Jesus Christ...


This is why its better to have not known the way of righteousness because as a fallin believer your worst off than the unbeliever

 

[Kayla McCanny]

If you place your trust & belief in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ you ARE saved, you ARE justified, you ARE HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
Suicide ? Where does Christ through Paul teach that stops a person from entering Heaven ?

A person cannot ask God to forgive them from murdering themselves because the would be dead already. I don't want to commit suicide and go to hell. Life has purpose. I have skitzaffective disorder so the demon bothers me a lot. I don't believe I'm damned and I believe we are not to murder ourselves and take life into our own hands

 

[Dryhn]

An unbeliever willfully sins but once you are saved there is a sacrifice for your sins, if you go back to willfully sinning thre is no more a sacrifice.... thats why at the end of that chapter it says - but we (saved believer) are not those who fall back to destruction.... only a believer could fall back to destruction... the dog has returned to its dedtruction just like the sow which became clesn by being saved now returns to its destruction (pollutions).

Thats why the verse before that says its better to have not known the way of righteousness then to have known it and fall away because the verse before that says that once youve escaped the pollutions (destrution - vomit) of the world thru - A Lord and Saviior Jesud Christ (saved believer) and are then entangled and overcome again (willfully sinning) you are now worst off than at the begining (at the begining your were unsaved in the pollutions of the world and hadnt escape thru a savior Jesus Christ...


This is why its better to have not known the way of righteousness because as a fallin believer your worst off than the unbeliever

An unbeliever willfully sins but once you are saved there is a sacrifice for your sins, if you go back to willfully sinning thre is no more a sacrifice
Confirm where Christ THROUGH Paul teaches that please

 

[FaithWillDo]

Can we talk about osas, not free will because I not a Calvinist. I don't believe God damned my life like what is being told to me by a demon. I'm a Christian struggling with spiritual warfare and we all choose. I just want to know if osas is true. I think I believe as long as someone doesn't commit suicide and is a Christian than they go to heaven. I'm leaning on osas. From some scripture I have been reading. That God disciples those he loves and we are still his children when he corrects and disciplines us.

Dear Kayla,
Once saved, always saved is true. What most believers don't understand is when salvation occurs. I explained when salvation occurs in my first post (#279).

Also, all babes struggle with spiritual warfare because they are not yet converted. After a person is converted, they will be at peace.

Everyone will experience what you are experiencing now at some point in their life (this age or the next). I experienced it many years ago before I was converted.

Also, "going to heaven" is not salvation. Salvation is to be converted from being a child of the Devil to being a child of God. When Christ converts a person, He changes their spiritual makeup to be like His spiritual makeup. During the conversion process, Christ will destroy the carnal & religious spiritual nature of the person's spirit. It is this spiritual nature that has made the person to be a sinful child of the Devil.

Also, you should have confidence in Christ about your own salvation because Christ has stated in many places of scripture that He will save all mankind. No one will be lost.

Do you know that God the Father sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world (1John 4:14)? Do you believe that Christ will fail in the mission His Father gave Him? Scripture says that it is not possible. However, because the apostate churches of the world falsely teach that mankind must add their own works to the works of Christ to be saved, they have convinced most believers that Christ cannot possibly save everyone.

Please read this verse below and tell me how it can be possible that Christ is going to fail in the mission His Father gave Him:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Scripture also says that only those who don't believe are damned - and the only ones who don't believe are the children of the Devil. When Christ converts a person, they become a new creation; a child of God. The child of God is not condemned, whether or not they are born in this age or the next.

John 3:18 He (child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (child of the Devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In this present age, Christ is only converting/saving those that the Father chose from the foundation of the world for an early salvation. In the farming analogy, they are called "first fruits". The main harvest of mankind will be at the end of the final age.

Whether a person has been chosen or not, they will be saved before Christ completes His work and the ages come to an end.

In the final age, it is true that most of mankind will be cast into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol for judgment. It is not literal fire nor is it eternal. During this time of judgment, Christ will not forget the balance of unsaved mankind. While Christ judges them, He will not omit MERCY, FAITH, AND JUSTICE from His judgment. His mercy will manifest itself as the Early and Latter Rains which will birth a new child of God. This newly born child of God will then be removed from judgment and gathered to heaven. This will leave the child of the Devil in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy justice.

These verses apply:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Christ is the Sun) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (the Early and Latter Rain) on the just (elect) and on the unjust (non-elect).

After the last person of mankind has been converted, the verses below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joe

 

[Dryhn]

A person cannot ask God to forgive them from murdering themselves because the would be dead already. I don't want to commit suicide and go to hell. Life has purpose. I have skitzaffective disorder so the demon bothers me a lot. I don't believe I'm damned and I believe we are not to murder ourselves and take life into our own hands

I don't want to commit suicide and go to hell
Christ via His selected Apostle Paul does not teach that

The moment you believe & trust that Christ :-
- Died for ALL your sins,
- Was buried for ALL your sins
- Rose 3 days later
You :-
ARE saved
ARE forgiven
ARE justifed
ARE HS sealed

You ARE protected by the HS seal
When you feel you are being attacked, CALL OUT TO CHRIST

 

[Dryhn]

Dear Kayla,
Once saved, always saved is true. What most believers don't understand is when salvation occurs. I explained when salvation occurs in my first post (#279).

Also, all babes struggle with spiritual warfare because they are not yet converted. After a person is converted, they will be at peace.

Everyone will experience what you are experiencing now at some point in their life (this age or the next). I experienced it many years ago before I was converted.

Also, "going to heaven" is not salvation. Salvation is to be converted from being a child of the Devil to being a child of God. When Christ converts a person, He changes their spiritual makeup to be like His spiritual makeup. During the conversion process, Christ will destroy the carnal & religious spiritual nature of the person's spirit. It is this spiritual nature that has made the person to be a sinful child of the Devil.

Also, you should have confidence in Christ about your own salvation because Christ has stated in many places of scripture that He will save all mankind. No one will be lost.

Do you know that God the Father sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world (1John 4:14)? Do you believe that Christ will fail in the mission His Father gave Him? Scripture says that it is not possible. However, because the apostate churches of the world falsely teach that mankind must add their own works to the works of Christ to be saved, they have convinced most believers that Christ cannot possibly save everyone.

Please read this verse below and tell me how it can be possible that Christ is going to fail in the mission His Father gave Him:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Scripture also says that only those who don't believe are damned - and the only ones who don't believe are the children of the Devil. When Christ converts a person, they become a new creation; a child of God. The child of God is not condemned, whether or not they are born in this age or the next.

John 3:18 He (child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (child of the Devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In this present age, Christ is only converting/saving those that the Father chose from the foundation of the world for an early salvation. In the farming analogy, they are called "first fruits". The main harvest of mankind will be at the end of the final age.

Whether a person has been chosen or not, they will be saved before Christ completes His work and the ages come to an end.

In the final age, it is true that most of mankind will be cast into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol for judgment. It is not literal fire nor is it eternal. During this time of judgment, Christ will not forget the balance of unsaved mankind. While Christ judges them, He will not omit MERCY, FAITH, AND JUSTICE from His judgment. His mercy will manifest itself as the Early and Latter Rains which will birth a new child of God. This newly born child of God will then be removed from judgment and gathered to heaven. This will leave the child of the Devil in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy justice.

These verses apply:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Christ is the Sun) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (the Early and Latter Rain) on the just (elect) and on the unjust (non-elect).

After the last person of mankind has been converted, the verses below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joe

Once saved, always saved is true.
Faith & trust in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ = saved, justified, HS sealed :)
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30

 

[WHO ME]

In lukes faithful seevant 12:40 thru 48

Jesus warns to be ready to the believer for his coming (rapture (40)
Then in 42 he asks who is the faithful servant? (43) he says that when he comes he finds that servant being a servant (44) he will make that servant a ruler (reward) 45 but if that servant instead is not ready he will apoint him with the unbelievers.... this shows one servant - reward if doing Gods will as a servant - OR if that servant goes back to his old ways - willfully sinning - pollutions - vomit He is Now appointed with the unbelievers - he is worst off (48) the unbeliever gets a few beatings but the believer (47) who knew the way of righteousness and fell away is now worst off with many beatings... the dog (unbelievers) had escaped the pollutions of the world and now become entangled again and returned to those pollutions (vomit)...

Why do you think there are 3 outcomes in lukes story?

The faithful servant is rewarded
The fallen back servant gets many beatings
The unbeliever gets few beatings

The dog vomits out and is clean because he is saved thru a lord and savior Jesus Christ but he returns to the willful sinning and loses that reward.... he falls back to his old life and theres no more sacfice for his sin... this is why he is dead and lost to the father until he repents (prodicals son)

 

[Dryhn]

In lukes faithful seevant 12:40 thru 48

Jesus warns to be ready to the believer for his coming (rapture (40)
Then in 42 he asks who is the faithful servant? (43) he says that when he comes he finds that servant being a servant (44) he will make that servant a ruler (reward) 45 but if that servant instead is not ready he will apoint him with the unbelievers.... this shows one servant - reward if doing Gods will as a servant - OR if that servant goes back to his old ways - willfully sinning - pollutions - vomit He is Now appointed with the unbelievers - he is worst off (48) the unbeliever gets a few beatings but the believer (47) who knew the way of righteousness and fell away is now worst off with many beatings... the dog (unbelievers) had escaped the pollutions of the world and now become entangled again and returned to those pollutions (vomit)...

Why do you think there are 3 outcomes in lukes story?

The faithful servant is rewarded
The fallen back servant gets many beatings
The unbeliever gets few beatings

The dog vomits out and is clean because he is saved thru a lord and savior Jesus Christ but he returns to the willful sinning and loses that reward.... he falls back to his old life and theres no more sacfice for his sin... this is why he is dead and lost to the father until he repents (prodicals son)

Who did Christ select to teach the saving gospel to you & I ?
Paul or Luke ?
Hmm, lets see :-
Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 >> Paul

Now who did all the other Apostles agree on was to teach you & I ?
Gal 2:7-9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paul