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Happy Trails

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The OT is a Hebrew document that wasa translated into Gree, circa, 200 BC. The NT is largely a Greek Document.
And I agree with the Church Fathers about Matthre being originally written in Hebrew - so I'm not sure why you're arguing.

My position is that the original version of Mattew didn't differentiate between "small stone" and "large stone" - as the Greek does. This destroys the entire Protestant argument that TWO Roscks are beinbg referred to here.

Again - I'm not really sure why you're asrguing about this.

That is certainly what has been taught. However, the archeological evidence shows that extant Hebrew NT's were in circulation before the end of the first century. It makes no sense that it would be a Greek document. The men who wrote it were Jews. They were writing to other Jews. The religious community, especially, resented the Greek language and culture. They hated being an occupied nation. They hated being occupied by pagans.

Rome pushed Jewish Christians out of the religion. The book of Acts tells us that the first 8,000 Christians were Jews. Rome hijacked it and did whatever they wanted. They taught whatever they wanted. Hiding the truth is why they tortured people for translating the Bible into English.

I have heard the size of the rocks mentioned by someone, but never paid much attention. Most Christian doctrine is not really from the Bible. I dismiss it out of hand, frankly. Protestantism is just a different version of Catholicism. All of the holidays in Protestantism started in the Catholic Church. They took some, left others, and didn't want to be under the authority of Rome. You have to admit, the RCC has a horrific history of murder, deceit, torture and abuse.

Taking their word about ANYTHING doesn't seem prudent.
 

1stCenturyLady

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You might say that but it is NOT true!
We read in John 6:44, 37
44) "No man can come to me, except the Father draw him [does not mean apostles].... "
37) All that the Father giveth me [not apostles] shall come to me; and him that cometh [believers only] to me I will in no wise cast out.



That any of those that God saved should not perish but to have life everlasting!



Indeed context,context, context that you should practice and preach.

To God Be The Glory


As you see - context, context, context. Those there who were not his disciples did NOT accept Him. Keep your mind open to God's clues in His word. You will see as I did, that when God gave or gives it is about the apostles. Of course, your whole doctrine will crumble when you do, but that's what you want. Cast away the false, and accept God's meaning. I left a denomination that I though had the ONLY TRUTH. And from then on I had an open mind and I could hear and discern clearly God's holy doctrines.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Rejected by His Own

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
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BreadOfLife

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That is certainly what has been taught. However, the archeological evidence shows that extant Hebrew NT's were in circulation before the end of the first century. It makes no sense that it would be a Greek document. The men who wrote it were Jews. They were writing to other Jews. The religious community, especially, resented the Greek language and culture. They hated being an occupied nation. They hated being occupied by pagans.

Rome pushed Jewish Christians out of the religion. The book of Acts tells us that the first 8,000 Christians were Jews. Rome hijacked it and did whatever they wanted. They taught whatever they wanted. Hiding the truth is why they tortured people for translating the Bible into English.

I have heard the size of the rocks mentioned by someone, but never paid much attention. Most Christian doctrine is not really from the Bible. I dismiss it out of hand, frankly. Protestantism is just a different version of Catholicism. All of the holidays in Protestantism started in the Catholic Church. They took some, left others, and didn't want to be under the authority of Rome. You have to admit, the RCC has a horrific history of murder, deceit, torture and abuse.

Taking their word about ANYTHING doesn't seem prudent.
It makes "no sense" to YOU because you're not a serious student of history.
If you were - you would't have made some of the other ridiculous comments in RED that you did.

Greek was the lingua franca - that is to say, the "common langiuage" of 1st century commerce and intellect. Your belief that the NT was wtritten in Hebrew is based on your ignorance of this fact and of history.

As to your other idiotic anti-Catholic comments in RED - looks like you were weened on this nonsense and never actually studied hstory. You're painfully unaware that most of the renegae translations that were being passed around in the Middle Ages were perversions of Scripture by uneducated translators - and just plain bad translations.
At the Coulcil of Toulouse in the 13th century - the Church ruled against ANY private translations that would further confuse the public.

MOST of the general public at the time was functionally illiterate and uneducated - so they had NO was of discerning a good translation from a bad one.

As to your coomment about Christian doctrine NOT coming from the Bible - you are correct - but only in a certain sense.
The Canon of the Bible was not formalized and declared until lthe 4th century - so MUCH of what was taught was done so through the individual Epistles, Letters and other writings, along aith Sacred Tradition. HOWEVER - most of our Christian doctrines ARE taught in the Bible.

I suggest you do a serious study of Church History - and leave the nonsense behind . . .
 
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Happy Trails

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I makes "no sense" to YOU because you're not a serious student of history.
If you were - you would't have made some of the other ridiculous comments in RED that you did.

Greek was the lingus franca - that is to say, the "common langiuage" of 1st century commerce and intellect. Your belief that the NT was wtritten in Hebrew is based on your ignorance of this fact and of history.

As to your other idiotic anti-Catholic comments in RED - looks like you were weened on this nonsense and never actually studied hstory. You're painfully unaware that most of the renegae translations that were being passed around in the Middle Ages were perversions of Scripture by uneducated translators - and just plain bad translations.
At the Coulcil of Toulouse in the 13th century - the Church ruled against ANY private translations that would further confuse the public.

MOST of the general public at the time was functionally illiterate and uneducated - so they had NO was of discerning a good translation from a bad one.

As to your coomment about Christian doctrine NOT coming from the Bible - you are correct - but only in a certain sense.
The Canon of the Bible was not formalized and declared until lthe 4th century - so MUCH of what was taught was done so through the individual Epistles, Letters and other writings, along aith Sacred Tradition. HOWEVER - most of our Christian doctrines ARE taught in the Bible.

I suggest you do a serious study of Church History - and leave the nonsense behind . . .

Greek was the common language among non-Jews.


Acts 2:6 and following: the miracle was that all the people who had come to Jerusalem for the feast heard the wonderful works of God in their own languages. All kinds of people groups spoke all kinds of languages right there in the area. Greek may have been the single largest. But, that is far from it being the only language spoken in the area at the time.


The quote from Jesus on the cross, not Greek.

Paul's guard never heard him speak Greek until the moment I cited in Acts 21.

The crowd was willing to listen to him BECAUSE he spoke to them in Hebrew.

In Paul's account of meeting Jesus on the road, he says Jesus spoke to him in Hebrew.

The NT is replete with Hebrew idioms.

Your response was to say that all of it was idiotic. So, it's idiotic to actually read the words and think about what they mean. That doesn't seem serious.

Here's yet another example:
Mark 5:41
And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, "Talitha cumi;" which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

The translator stayed true to Jesus' actual words, and then offered the translation after the fact.



The only history you cite is that from the Roman Catholic Church. Sources outside of Rome tell it differently. I believed much of what you say, until I did some serious study.

If the RCC were concerned about accurate translations, why didn't they take the lead? Why would they NOT want a version that everyone could read?

You are surely not taking the position that Rome NEVER burned people alive, are you? Are you denying the Inquisitions ever happened? Is that where "serious study" leads?

I have studied church history. I simply don't buy into Rome's version of it. That's the only version you accept. That is the opposite of serious.
 

BreadOfLife

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Greek was the common language among non-Jews.
Acts 2:6 and following: the miracle was that all the people who had come to Jerusalem for the feast heard the wonderful works of God in their own languages. All kinds of people groups spoke all kinds of languages right there in the area. Greek may have been the single largest. But, that is far from it being the only language spoken in the area at the time.

Amd, of course you need to LIE to make your point.

I never said that Greek was the "ONLY" laguage spoken. I said it ewas the lingu franca (common language) of the day in that Eastern Mediterranean region of the world since it's congquest by Alexander the Grat som four centuries befor the birth of Christ.
This is a plain fact of history - which you can argue against ALL day long and you''ll STILL be wrong.

The Jews were disppersed thrpoughout the region. The Masoretic Text of the OT was translated into Greek in the Septuagint because oif this - about 2 cennturies before Christ.
Do your homework . . .
The quote from Jesus on the cross, not Greek.
Paul's guard never heard him speak Greek until the moment I cited in Acts 21.
The crowd was willing to listen to him BECAUSE he spoke to them in Hebrew.
In Paul's account of meeting Jesus on the road, he says Jesus spoke to him in Hebrew.

The NT is replete with Hebrew idioms.
And Greek terms and idioms, that cannot be pefwctly translated.

One glaring exa,ple if John 1:28, where the angel calls Mary, "Kecharitomene".
This word translates as "One, having been completely, pergfectly and endyringly endowed with grace.". It is a perfect participle that connots a past event with a permanent result.

This is translated in the Vulgate as "Gratia plena" (full of drace) and "Highly favoured" in the KJV.
Your response was to say that all of it was idiotic. So, it's idiotic to actually read the words and think about what they mean. That doesn't seem serious.

Here's yet another example:
Mark 5:41
And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, "Talitha cumi;" which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

The translator stayed true to Jesus' actual words, and then offered the translation after the fact.

The only history you cite is that from the Roman Catholic Church. Sources outside of Rome tell it differently. I believed much of what you say, until I did some serious study.

If the RCC were concerned about accurate translations, why didn't they take the lead? Why would they NOT want a version that everyone could read?

You are surely not taking the position that Rome NEVER burned people alive, are you? Are you denying the Inquisitions ever happened? Is that where "serious study" leads?

I have studied church history. I simply don't buy into Rome's version of it. That's the only version you accept. That is the opposite of serious.
You are completely confused here.

Once again - I NEVER stated that Jesus SPOKE Greek to His followers.
In fact - I explicitly stated that Jesus SPOKE in Aramaic to His followers.

I ALSO said the Greek was the lingua franca in matters of commerser, intellect, ect.
The Epistles were written to LARGE and diverse audiences. Greek was a way of communicating with everyone instead of writing each letter in 50 different languages - as we see in Acts 2.

YOU
have your bizarre opinions - whereas, I have the weight of history and bulk of linguistic scholarship on MY side.
Why don't we just leave it at this: I will continue to believe to logical ltryth of history - and YOU can make up whatever fairy tales suit YOU.
 

Happy Trails

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Amd, of course you need to LIE to make your point.

I never said that Greek was the "ONLY" laguage spoken. I said it ewas the lingu franca (common language) of the day in that Eastern Mediterranean region of the world since it's congquest by Alexander the Grat som four centuries befor the birth of Christ.
This is a plain fact of history - which you can argue against ALL day long and you''ll STILL be wrong.

The Jews were disppersed thrpoughout the region. The Masoretic Text of the OT was translated into Greek in the Septuagint because oif this - about 2 cennturies before Christ.
Do your homework . . .

And Greek terms and idioms, that cannot be pefwctly translated.

One glaring exa,ple if John 1:28, where the angel calls Mary, "Kecharitomene".
This word translates as "One, having been completely, pergfectly and endyringly endowed with grace.". It is a perfect participle that connots a past event with a permanent result.

This is translated in the Vulgate as "Gratia plena" (full of drace) and "Highly favoured" in the KJV.

You are completely confused here.

Once again - I NEVER stated that Jesus SPOKE Greek to His followers.
In fact - I explicitly stated that Jesus SPOKE in Aramaic to His followers.

I ALSO said the Greek was the lingua franca in matters of commerser, intellect, ect.
The Epistles were written to LARGE and diverse audiences. Greek was a way of communicating with everyone instead of writing each letter in 50 different languages - as we see in Acts 2.

YOU
have your bizarre opinions - whereas, I have the weight of history and bulk of linguistic scholarship on MY side.
Why don't we just leave it at this: I will continue to believe to logical ltryth of history - and YOU can make up whatever fairy tales suit YOU.




Stating points of fact do not require you to have said the opposite.

The two statements, “Greek was the common language among non-Jews,” and “But, that is far from it being the only language spoken in the area,” accuse you of nothing.

I pointed out that the Bible testifies of a variety of languages being spoken by people who visited Jerusalem. Those people were there for the feast of Shavu'ot. So, they were practicing Jews from diverse ethnic backgrounds. They spoke different languages. They lived in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Greek may have been the lingua franca among the Gentiles, but, most Jews hated Greek. Their lives were built around their identity as the children of Abraham, not Alexander. It was the Greeks that defiled the Temple at the order of Antiochus Epiphanes. Greek was the language of heathens and swine eaters. The language of the Temple is Hebrew.

Acts 10:28 tells us that hanging around non-Jews was unlawful. If I don't hang around them, I don't need to know their language. I might know a few words. I might know a few phrases. Familiarity does not make it my preferred language. Jesus proved that with the language He spoke.

Language reinforces the distinction between Jewish life and Gentile life. Greek was the lingua franca of commerce and intellect. That is “the world” we are regularly reminded to avoid. Neither of those would greatly influence Jewish religious life. Nor would it have much impact on people who made a point of NOT making relationships with heathens.

Embracing Hellenism would compromise the religious Jew's condition as “set apart” from the heathens. Certainly, the Pharisees had nothing to do with it. Their very name means “set apart ones.” Paul was a Pharisee, as was Nicodemus.

There were Hellenized Jews who wanted to have the OT in Greek. There was also a demand from non-Jews to have the text in Greek because they believed it was a valuable document, regardless of their personal religion. That is not, however, cause for authoring the NT in Greek. The Masoretic text was NOT used to create the LXX. The Masoretes didn't exist for another 600+ years. Do your homework.

John 1:28 says, “These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. “ You meant Luke 1:28.

That single word says nothing about Greek primacy. The phrase “full of blessing” appears in the Peshitta. The same is seen in Deuteronomy 33:23. So, if anything, you are making the case for it starting as a Hebrew idiom that was translated into Greek.

The epistles were NOT written to large and diverse audiences. They were written to specific congregations, and specific people. They were written to congregations that Paul visited. One would have to ignore the introductions to every single letter to believe anything else. That is how the seeds of error get planted. It's how the history gets re-written.

The leaders of those congregations were Jewish believers in Jesus. In those congregations were Jews and a growing number of former Gentiles who embraced the lifestyle of belief in Jesus as Messiah and obedience to His instructions. The “middle wall of partition” in the book of Ephesians is addressing that fact, and a tradition Paul is condemning.

Peter's letters have more generic introductions. But, even they are addressed to specific groups of people. One group is those who have been dispersed. Didn't you tell me that the Jews were dispersed? Peter warns these dispersed people to have their conversation to be honest among the Gentiles. So, he is NOT writing to Gentiles. He is writing to dispersed Jews. It is only the copying and disseminating of these letters that foster any “broader audience” kind of claim.

The conclusion is that Jesus spoke Aramaic to His followers, and spoke Hebrew to Paul. Paul spoke Hebrew to his audience and was not heard speaking Greek, except for one particular event. All of the religious activities of the Apostles centered around Jewish life. Their Messiah having visited them did not change the fact that they were Jewish, they acted Jewish and they spoke Aramaic or Hebrew in their daily lives. That is why letters written to them would have been in their native language.
 

BreadOfLife

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Stating points of fact do not require you to have said the opposite.

The two statements, “Greek was the common language among non-Jews,” and “But, that is far from it being the only language spoken in the area,” accuse you of nothing.

I pointed out that the Bible testifies of a variety of languages being spoken by people who visited Jerusalem. Those people were there for the feast of Shavu'ot. So, they were practicing Jews from diverse ethnic backgrounds. They spoke different languages. They lived in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Greek may have been the lingua franca among the Gentiles, but, most Jews hated Greek. Their lives were built around their identity as the children of Abraham, not Alexander. It was the Greeks that defiled the Temple at the order of Antiochus Epiphanes. Greek was the language of heathens and swine eaters. The language of the Temple is Hebrew.

Acts 10:28 tells us that hanging around non-Jews was unlawful. If I don't hang around them, I don't need to know their language. I might know a few words. I might know a few phrases. Familiarity does not make it my preferred language. Jesus proved that with the language He spoke.

Language reinforces the distinction between Jewish life and Gentile life. Greek was the lingua franca of commerce and intellect. That is “the world” we are regularly reminded to avoid. Neither of those would greatly influence Jewish religious life. Nor would it have much impact on people who made a point of NOT making relationships with heathens.

Embracing Hellenism would compromise the religious Jew's condition as “set apart” from the heathens. Certainly, the Pharisees had nothing to do with it. Their very name means “set apart ones.” Paul was a Pharisee, as was Nicodemus.

There were Hellenized Jews who wanted to have the OT in Greek. There was also a demand from non-Jews to have the text in Greek because they believed it was a valuable document, regardless of their personal religion. That is not, however, cause for authoring the NT in Greek. The Masoretic text was NOT used to create the LXX. The Masoretes didn't exist for another 600+ years. Do your homework.

John 1:28 says, “These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. “ You meant Luke 1:28.

That single word says nothing about Greek primacy. The phrase “full of blessing” appears in the Peshitta. The same is seen in Deuteronomy 33:23. So, if anything, you are making the case for it starting as a Hebrew idiom that was translated into Greek.

The epistles were NOT written to large and diverse audiences. They were written to specific congregations, and specific people. They were written to congregations that Paul visited. One would have to ignore the introductions to every single letter to believe anything else. That is how the seeds of error get planted. It's how the history gets re-written.

The leaders of those congregations were Jewish believers in Jesus. In those congregations were Jews and a growing number of former Gentiles who embraced the lifestyle of belief in Jesus as Messiah and obedience to His instructions. The “middle wall of partition” in the book of Ephesians is addressing that fact, and a tradition Paul is condemning.

Peter's letters have more generic introductions. But, even they are addressed to specific groups of people. One group is those who have been dispersed. Didn't you tell me that the Jews were dispersed? Peter warns these dispersed people to have their conversation to be honest among the Gentiles. So, he is NOT writing to Gentiles. He is writing to dispersed Jews. It is only the copying and disseminating of these letters that foster any “broader audience” kind of claim.

The conclusion is that Jesus spoke Aramaic to His followers, and spoke Hebrew to Paul. Paul spoke Hebrew to his audience and was not heard speaking Greek, except for one particular event. All of the religious activities of the Apostles centered around Jewish life. Their Messiah having visited them did not change the fact that they were Jewish, they acted Jewish and they spoke Aramaic or Hebrew in their daily lives. That is why letters written to them would have been in their native language.
Once again - you've posted am extremely verbose diatribe about "many languages" - yet you ohave FAILED to understand the pont.

As I stated earlier - it's NOT about what languages people SPOKE in the Eastern Mediterranean region of the world in the 1st century. The NT was WRITTEN in Koine Greek because this was the COMMON lnagiage among ALL of those people who SPOKE different languages.

The Apostles and other NT writers knew they could rach a FAR LARGER audience by writing in Greek than in Hebrew.
The Jews were DISPERSED throughout the region and spoke different languages. When you add to their numbers all of the GENTILES that were being written to as well - Greek would be the ONLY logical choice.

These are historical facts - NOT silly opinions like yours.
But, cling to your fairy tales if you must . . .
 

Happy Trails

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Once again - you've posted am extremely verbose diatribe about "many languages" - yet you ohave FAILED to understand the pont.

As I stated earlier - it's NOT about what languages people SPOKE in the Eastern Mediterranean region of the world in the 1st century. The NT was WRITTEN in Koine Greek because this was the COMMON lnagiage among ALL of those people who SPOKE different languages.

The Apostles and other NT writers knew they could rach a FAR LARGER audience by writing in Greek than in Hebrew.
The Jews were DISPERSED throughout the region and spoke different languages. When you add to their numbers all of the GENTILES that were being written to as well - Greek would be the ONLY logical choice.

These are historical facts - NOT silly opinions like yours.
But, cling to your fairy tales if you must . . .



I do understand the point.
You make claims of historical fact that are only opinion you have been told to have.


And, I understand there are more than one point to be understood.
The next point is, "you think repeating the same failed argument is the same as conclusive evidence."
Paul wrote letters to congregations he knew, and individuals he knew. THAT is his audience. The introductions are the irrefutable evidence of that fact.

Any larger audience would be a by-product of the recipient's will, not Paul's.
Isn't it the congregations that published his letters? Perhaps, they translated them for a larger audience. That is possible, is it not?
You ascribe intent to Paul that is contrary to the evidence. It requires that you read his mind. But, that is what you have been told. You can't question it. It is the opinion you have been told to have, not a fact.
The letters were written to Jewish congregations with new converts. That is what the whole "wall of partition" is all about. You didn't want to address that. It supports the fact that all of these groups had Jewish leadership. Acts 15 tells the same story. The new converts were told to abstain from 4 specific sins. Then, they would be allowed to join the Jews on the Sabbath to hear the Law of Moses.

No Gentiles were being written to. NO LETTER IS ADDRESSED TO GENTILES.

I understand this point completely.
The point is, "You consider ONLY the Roman version of the story as even possible. NO OTHER historical source can be considered." You refuse to acknowledge that 2,000 years ago, some guys with absolutely no linguistic, cultural or religious connection to Jesus took over the movement He began in Judea.
How often were the Jews were expelled from Rome? That would be good homework.
How badly were Jewish Christians persecuted by Rome because they chose to obey the Torah, and not Rome? That would be some good homework.
The guys who spent their entire lives LIVING according to the prophetic shadows of the Messiah were kicked to the curb while Rome turned Christianity into another sun god cult.
You won't even acknowledge that the RCC burned hundreds, if not thousands, of people alive for not bowing to their authority.

The only historical facts that you accept come from the very organization that has spent decades issuing apologies for their conduct. You are convinced that the people who committed these atrocities represent the heart of God. THEY, and NO ONE ELSE, can teach the history of the last 2,000 years. The organization that is IN CHARGE of ALL the cover-ups is telling you what to think. I may be an idiot. But I am NOT insane.


Why not set yourself free from them?

They are NOT representatives of the God of the Bible.

THAT is the point.
 

JunChosen

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It's not up to me. I'm just floating along here and waiting to see if God chose me or not.

Jesus said, "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you.... "

AND, Scripture stipulates in Hebrews 4:7-9:
7) .... .As it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[QUOTE="Rich R, post: 1273992, member: 17876"]I don't really believe that one bit, but if I did believe election, why have any other attitude?[/QUOTE]

Since we don't know those whom God gave to Jesus [John 6:44, 37], in eternity past and before the foundation of the world, we preach the Gospel so that those [born in different times in history] that God has elected to salvation, might hear and believe. Romans 10:17
 
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BreadOfLife

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I do understand the point.
You make claims of historical fact that are only opinion you have been told to have.


And, I understand there are more than one point to be understood.
The next point is, "you think repeating the same failed argument is the same as conclusive evidence."
Paul wrote letters to congregations he knew, and individuals he knew. THAT is his audience. The introductions are the irrefutable evidence of that fact.

Any larger audience would be a by-product of the recipient's will, not Paul's.
Isn't it the congregations that published his letters? Perhaps, they translated them for a larger audience. That is possible, is it not?
You ascribe intent to Paul that is contrary to the evidence. It requires that you read his mind. But, that is what you have been told. You can't question it. It is the opinion you have been told to have, not a fact.
The letters were written to Jewish congregations with new converts. That is what the whole "wall of partition" is all about. You didn't want to address that. It supports the fact that all of these groups had Jewish leadership. Acts 15 tells the same story. The new converts were told to abstain from 4 specific sins. Then, they would be allowed to join the Jews on the Sabbath to hear the Law of Moses.

No Gentiles were being written to. NO LETTER IS ADDRESSED TO GENTILES.

I understand this point completely.
The point is, "You consider ONLY the Roman version of the story as even possible. NO OTHER historical source can be considered." You refuse to acknowledge that 2,000 years ago, some guys with absolutely no linguistic, cultural or religious connection to Jesus took over the movement He began in Judea.
How often were the Jews were expelled from Rome? That would be good homework.
How badly were Jewish Christians persecuted by Rome because they chose to obey the Torah, and not Rome? That would be some good homework.
The guys who spent their entire lives LIVING according to the prophetic shadows of the Messiah were kicked to the curb while Rome turned Christianity into another sun god cult.
You won't even acknowledge that the RCC burned hundreds, if not thousands, of people alive for not bowing to their authority.

The only historical facts that you accept come from the very organization that has spent decades issuing apologies for their conduct. You are convinced that the people who committed these atrocities represent the heart of God. THEY, and NO ONE ELSE, can teach the history of the last 2,000 years. The organization that is IN CHARGE of ALL the cover-ups is telling you what to think. I may be an idiot. But I am NOT insane.

Why not set yourself free from them?

They are NOT representatives of the God of the Bible.

THAT is the point.
Fist of all – I don’t even understand what the “Roman version of the story” means.
If you are referring to the Catholic Church – then SAY, “Catholic”. I am a CatholicNOT a “Roman”.

Secondly – I DON’T use exclusively Catholic sources in my debates for this very reason. I use Protestant Biblical translations and I use Protestant historical sources along with secular sources.

According to secular source WikipediaKoine Greek was the common language – the “lingua franca” of the Eastern Mediterranean Region during the first few centuries – just as I said it was:
Koine Greek (UK: /ˈkɔɪniː/;[2][3][4] Modern Greek: Ελληνιστική Κοινή, romanized: Ellinistikí Kiní, lit. 'Common Greek'; Greek: [elinistiˈci ciˈni]), also known as Alexandrian dialect, common Attic, Hellenistic, or Biblical Greek, was the common supra-regional form of Greek spoken and written during the Hellenistic period, the Roman Empire and the early Byzantine Empire. It evolved from the spread of Greek following the conquests of Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC, and served as the lingua franca of much of the Mediterranean region and the Middle East during the following centuries.

According to the Protestant source biblica.com -
The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. This seems strange, since you might think it would be either Hebrew or Aramaic. However, Greek was the language of scholarship during the years of the composition of the New Testament from 50 to 100 AD. The fact is that many Jews could not even read Hebrew anymore, and this disturbed the Jewish leaders a lot! So, around 300 BC a translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew into Greek was undertaken, and it was completed around 200 BC. Gradually this Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, was widely accepted and was even used in many synagogues. It also became a wonderful missionary tool for the early Christians, for now the Greeks could read God’s Word in their own tongue.

- ALL of the Protestant Fathers UNANIMOUSLY agreed that the NT was written in Koine Greek.
- Virtually ALL reputable Protestant theologians agree that the NT was written in Koine Greek.
In fact, the idea that is wasn’t is a fairly NEW historical revision.