One and Triune God.

[Anima]

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

As we read, the apostles were instructed to invoke in the name (singular) of the following three (plural): the father, the son, and the holy spirit, each separate being serving a particular role, yet they all are the one God, and thus are called "God."

To better help you understand, consider there exists three separate states of water: solid, liquid, and gas, each serving a particular role, yet they all are water, and thus are called ''water."

 

[RR144]

As we read, the apostles were instructed to invoke in the name (singular) of the following three (plural): the father, the son, and the holy spirit, each separate being serving a particular role, yet they all are the one God, and thus are called "God."

If that is true, why can't we find that formula any where in the post Gospel writings? In all the verses regarding the apostles baptizing, it was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus.

 

[Anima]

If that is true, why can't we find that formula any where in the post Gospel writings? In all the verses regarding the apostles baptizing, it was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus.

Matt. 28:19 shows the three separate beings: the father, the son, and the holy spirit are at the same time considered singular. Before you can understand later writings about baptism, you have to accept this basic fact first. If/when you do, we can then continue our discussion.

 

[farouk]

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

As we read, the apostles were instructed to invoke in the name (singular) of the following three (plural): the father, the son, and the holy spirit, each separate being serving a particular role, yet they all are the one God, and thus are called "God."

To better help you understand, consider there exists three separate states of water: solid, liquid, and gas, each serving a particular role, yet they all are water, and thus are called ''water."

Hi @Anima Good to see you on the forums. So are you maybe from a Greek background?

 

[RR144]

Matt. 28:19 shows the three separate beings: the father, the son, and the holy spirit are at the same time considered singular. Before you can understand later writings about baptism, you have to accept this basic fact first. If/when you do, we can then continue our discussion.

It doesn't say baptize them in the name of the Father, or the Son or the Holy Spirit. It's specific. In all three names. Again which none of the apostles followed. There is evidence to suggest that this verse is spurious.

 

[farouk]

There is indeed overwhelming evidence in Scripture for God in Three Persons.

Wonderful for example to see the Three Persons in Romans 8 working together in redemption.

 

[Anima]

It doesn't say baptize them in the name of the Father, or the Son or the Holy Spirit. It's specific. In all three names.

I didn't say Matt. 28:19 says "baptize in the name of the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit." Again, it says to baptize in the name of all three, but at the same time those three are considered singular:

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name [singular]) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (and of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

There is evidence to suggest that this verse is spurious.

What "evidence" is there to suggest that Matt. 28:19 is spurious?

 

[farouk]

@Berean Hard to see how the end of Matt. 28 is spurious....

 

[Cooper]

It doesn't say baptize them in the name of the Father, or the Son or the Holy Spirit. It's specific. In all three names. Again which none of the apostles followed. There is evidence to suggest that this verse is spurious.

I have three names but I am one person. AND if someone was to be baptised in the name of Michael Jacob Jackson they would be baptised in the name of ONE person. There is only ONE God, and his given name on earth was JESUS. God is ONE for crying out loud. The Bible says so. Only God can take away the sins of the world and Jesus is the Saviour of the World for only God, not a scapegoat can forgive our sins.

If the angel thought people 2000 years later would be sensible enough to realise Jesus was the name of the Mighty God on earth, (Isaiah 9) the angel was wrong. Perhaps it is a test of people's faith, to sort out the wheat from the chaff, the believers from the unbelievers who identify themselves very clearly on the World Wide Web.

May heaven help those who deny the deity of Jesus, they certainly make their disbelief very clear with their strident denials and protestations that are broadcast abroad in the ether.
.

 

[JunChosen]

@Berean - It's so sad you took the name Berean and did not give honour to the people of Berea who searched the scriptures daily if the things Paul said were so.

You may not believe this but I assure you it's Scripture.
2 Corinthians 13:14 reads:
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen

Post Gospel writing? You bet.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Dan57]

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

As we read, the apostles were instructed to invoke in the name (singular) of the following three (plural): the father, the son, and the holy spirit, each separate being serving a particular role, yet they all are the one God, and thus are called "God."

To better help you understand, consider there exists three separate states of water: solid, liquid, and gas, each serving a particular role, yet they all are water, and thus are called ''water."

St Patrick used the clover (Shamrock) to illustrate the trinity, 3 leaves but all aspects of a single plant (Godhead)

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).

 

[Enoch111]

If that is true, why can't we find that formula any where in the post Gospel writings? In all the verses regarding the apostles baptizing, it was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus.

That is not quite accurate, since that is not how it is recorded even once. But "in the name of" is stated in different ways at different times. However that does not change the fact that the intention was to baptize in the Name (singular) of the LORD (or God). So here is what we see after Matthew 28:19:

BECAUSE GOD HAD MADE JESUS BOTH LORD AND CHRIST
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:16)
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

BECAUSE "THE NAME" IS THE NAME OF THE LORD
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:48)

When we turn to the Old Testament we find that phrase "in the name of the LORD (YHWH)" several times, showing that it means "by the authority of God".

When we turn to the 2nd century Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles), we find that regardless of these variations, Christians were being baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (as commanded by Christ). And that has been the Christian practice ever since. In fact the Catechism of the Catholic Church specifically mentions "trine baptism" (three times) in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The Eastern Orthodox churches follow trine baptism also "...the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again."

 

[Robert Gwin]

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

As we read, the apostles were instructed to invoke in the name (singular) of the following three (plural): the father, the son, and the holy spirit, each separate being serving a particular role, yet they all are the one God, and thus are called "God."

To better help you understand, consider there exists three separate states of water: solid, liquid, and gas, each serving a particular role, yet they all are water, and thus are called ''water."

Welcome to the forum maam, may I ask why Jesus lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32? Perhaps Jesus is actually the son of Jehovah rather than being Jehovah, what do you think? Sorry for the bluntness Anima, but I do not know how to season with salt something this serious.

 

[Anima]

Welcome to the forum maam, may I ask why Jesus lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32?

Jesus doesn't lie. Before you can understand those verses, you need to accept in Matt. 28:19 the apostles were instructed to baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, and that at the same time those three are considered singular:

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name [singular]) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (and of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

 

[farouk]

Jesus doesn't lie. Before you can understand those verses, you need to accept in Matt. 28:19 the apostles were instructed to baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, and that at the same time those three are considered singular:

"πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες (baptize) αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα (in the name [singular]) τοῦ πατρὸς (of the father) καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ (and of the son) καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος (of the holy spirit)..." (Matt. 28:19)

Excellent point; the co-equality of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Three Person in One God is eminently Scriptural.

 

[JunChosen]

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:48)

When we turn to the Old Testament we find that phrase "in the name of the LORD (YHWH)" several times, showing that it means "by the authority of God".

Yes, I agree that the term "in the name of Jesus" is translated "in the AUTHORITY of God." In fact, after each prayer we say, "In Jesus name I/we pray."

John 15:16 reads:
"Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you, and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

"If ye shall ask anything in my name I will give it."

However, I believe the methodology of "water baptism" is by sprinkling [my opinion].

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

However, I believe the methodology of "water baptism" is by sprinkling [my opinion].

The reason Christian baptism is by immersion is that it fully identifies the believer symbolically with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The reason Christian baptism is by immersion is that it fully identifies the believer symbolically with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

And yet, we read in tthe Diudache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostle)s that Chriatian Baptism was done bu immersion AND by POURING:

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

The Didaches is one of the earliest Christian documents - purported to have been written as early as 50 AD.
The Bible, on the other hand, does NOT describe full immersion as the ONLY way to Baptize.

 

[Enoch111]

And yet, we read in tthe Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostle)s that Christian Baptism was done by immersion AND by POURING

Pouring was recommended only when the original mode was impractical. But immersion would agree with Romans 6 and also with what we read about those going "into" the water.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:38)

Since they had arrived at either a pond or a stream, there was plenty of water, therefore immersion was the mode. Even the Latin Vulgate and Douay Rheims bibles have this verse:
Et jussit stare currum: et descenderunt uterque in aquam, Philippus et eunuchus, et baptizavit eum. And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pouring was recommended only when the original mode was impractical. But immersion would agree with Romans 6 and also with what we read about those going "into" the water.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:38)

Since they had arrived at either a pond or a stream, there was plenty of water, therefore immersion was the mode. Even the Latin Vulgate and Douay Rheims bibles have this verse:
Et jussit stare currum: et descenderunt uterque in aquam, Philippus et eunuchus, et baptizavit eum. And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him.

You don't walk "UP" to a river bank or "UP" to a lakeshore.
You wal DOWN into both.

And how do you think the 3000 were Baptized at Pentecost in Jerusalem?
The Temple pools would have been OFF LIMITS to Christian Baptisms - especially in the wake of the crucifixion of the "criminal" Jesus.