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MatthewG

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@mailmandan

I aint gonna sit here and argue about it

its futile,

you believe what you will and same here...

All I know is that in the realm of Christ - all there is either inside of the Kingdom of God, or outside... and people have to decide whether the world is more worth it or if God is more worth it, and if it's like trying ice cream, and God is there for them... I dont have much to say.

you can quote the scripture all day, but without love it means nothing and people are free to believe how they want... and have freedom to decide for themselves without dogmatism.

Take care, and nothing but love to you,
Matthew
 

face2face

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Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Here I will help you.
Try and think of a person, or a nation which has gone through a probationary period?
F2F
 

mailmandan

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@mailmandan

Can you see a probation in this verse.

Zephaniah 3:19

“At that time I (God) will deal with all who oppressed you. I will rescue the lame; I will gather the exiles. I will give them praise and honor in every land where they have suffered shame. . ”

Will all wait upon the Lord to do this?
What of those who give up?
Will "all" be rescued?

The answer you know is no! Those who trusted in Him and who had their faith tried and tested by fire will find redemption but those who leave Him will not.

F2F
I don't see the word probation here and in context, the Lord is talking about Jerusalem. (vs. 7) Those who leave Him demonstrate unbelieving hearts.
 

mailmandan

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Here I will help you.
Try and think of a person, or a nation which has gone through a probationary period?
F2F
Israel was given the opportunity to repent and turn to the Lord, but many of them did not. This does not mean that all these Israelites were saved and were on probation in order to remain saved. That's what I mean by salvation is not probation.
 

face2face

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I don't see the word probation here and in context, the Lord is talking about Jerusalem. (vs. 7) Those who leave Him demonstrate unbelieving hearts.
This response is just denial.

What is this?

for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. James 1:3

Why test faith?
Why this probation?

If one is automatically saved, whats the point?

You still can't talk to this subject - this should be a concern for you!

F2F
 

face2face

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Israel was given the opportunity to repent and turn to the Lord, but many of them did not.
Why the need for repentance if people are already saved?
This does not mean that all these Israelites were saved and were on probation in order to remain saved. That's what I mean by salvation is not probation.
Do you know what it means to "wait upon the Lord?"

I'm really concerned wbout your answers! They are lacking a lot of Biblical substance.

Did Adam & Eve pass or fail their probation in the Garden?
Did Israel in the wilderness pass or fail their probation in the desert?
Did Judas pass or fail his probation as a disciple of Christ?

What number in the Bible represents probation?

Enjoy
F2F
 

mailmandan

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This response is just denial.

What is this?

for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. James 1:3

Why test faith?
Why this probation?

If one is automatically saved, whats the point?

You still can't talk to this subject - this should be a concern for you!

F2F
Denial? Not hardly. The testing of our faith does produce steadfastness for those who have authentic faith. This is not about probation in order to remain saved. I'm concerned about your confusion. Paul talks about examining/testing yourself to see if you are in the faith. (2 Corinthians 13:5) There are many "nominal" Christians.
 

face2face

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For everyone else.

The number for probation in the Bible is 40. It's an interesting study.

Check this out!

Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean of Paddan Aram. She was the sister of Laban the Aramean.

I just love how consistant the Word of God is when looking at the testing of our faith. Forty is the number of probation. It is significant that Isaac, (an ensample of Christ), should take his bride at such an age. It reveals the "marriage of the Lamb" after the period of probation for those who constitute "the Lamb's bride."

Where else in the Bible can you find this significant number 40?

F2F
 

mailmandan

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Why the need for repentance if people are already saved?

Do you know what it means to "wait upon the Lord?"

I'm really concerned wbout your answers! They are lacking a lot of Biblical substance.

Did Adam & Eve pass or fail their probation in the Garden?
Did Israel in the wilderness pass or fail their probation in the desert?
Did Judas pass or fail his probation as a disciple of Christ?

What number in the Bible represents probation?

Enjoy
F2F
Many of them were not already saved and repentance unto salvation precedes salvation through faith. (Acts 20:21) None of your probation arguments support losing salvation. You seem to enjoy arguing.
 
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face2face

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Denial? Not hardly. The testing of our faith does produce steadfastness for those who have authentic faith. This is not about probation in order to remain saved.
No, its a process of one being saved.
I'm concerned about your confusion. Paul talks about examining/testing yourself to see if you are in the faith. (2 Corinthians 13:5) There are many "nominal" Christians.
So you are an elite Christian! God has whispered in your ears you are saved, while the nominal Christians are toughing it out in the trenches of life?

Wow, deception runs really deep!

F2F
 

face2face

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Many of them were not already saved and repentance unto salvation precedes salvation through faith. (Acts 20:21) None of your probation arguments support losing salvation. You seem to enjoy arguing.
No, just contending with your lack of understanding.

Think it through.

You say you are an elite Christian who is saved already.
You dont need your faith tested because you are already saved.
You wont go through tribulation to enter the Kingdom because you are exempt from such trials.

How can you not argue against that?

F2F
 

face2face

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None of your probation arguments support losing salvation. You seem to enjoy arguing.
I asked you to show me those who lost their salvation due to failing their probation.

Can you?
 

face2face

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Denial? Not hardly. The testing of our faith does produce steadfastness for those who have authentic faith. This is not about probation in order to remain saved.
Mail, read that again...think about what you are saying.

Testing of faith produces steadfastness but you say this is not to remain saved :contemplate:

Unpack what you have said!

Let's put it this way -

Untested faith produces an unstable inconsistant faith

You say in both situations they are guarenteed salvation?

So is the probation period there to help people remain in a saved position?

Really, you will conclude that the probation period (discipleship) is designed to keep you saved (but not yet!)!

Consider the alternative? You lose faith and then what?

I'm concerned about your confusion. Paul talks about examining/testing yourself to see if you are in the faith. (2 Corinthians 13:5) There are many "nominal" Christians.
I'm still rather disturbed by this comment - I think in time you will want to retract it!

Again, why would you test yourself to see if you are still in the Faith if you are saved already?

You are missing something, that much is certain... I think you still need to put it all together.

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 2 Corinthians 13:5

Probation?

Speak to me about failing to meet the test!

What are the consequences of being found you are outside of Christ?

“But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. Matt 22:11

He is at the wedding feast but with no garment!?

What does that mean in real terms?

What can they see?
Why can the see it?
What happened to this person who "thought" they were saved?

F2F
 

mailmandan

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No, its a process of one being saved.

So you are an elite Christian! God has whispered in your ears you are saved, while the nominal Christians are toughing it out in the trenches of life?

Wow, deception runs really deep!

F2F
I see that you confuse the 3 tenses of salvation.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Deception runs deep for those who preach works-righeousness by teaching that justification is a process.
 

mailmandan

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No, just contending with your lack of understanding.

Think it through.

You say you are an elite Christian who is saved already.
You dont need your faith tested because you are already saved.
You wont go through tribulation to enter the Kingdom because you are exempt from such trials.

How can you not argue against that?

F2F
I already "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith and my faith has been tested. I have experienced tribulation and trials (just like other Christians) and will continue to do so until I enter the Kingdom. I never claimed to be an elite Christian. That is a straw man argument.
 

face2face

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I see that you confuse the 3 tenses of salvation.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Deception runs deep for those who preach works-righeousness by teaching that justification is a process.
I'll leave it with you to work through the many posts showing you the importance of our probation and the testing of our faith.
F2F
 

face2face

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I already "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith and my faith has been tested. I have experienced tribulation and trials (just like other Christians) and will continue to do so until I enter the Kingdom. I never claimed to be an elite Christian. That is a straw man argument.
Lets hope you have the garment ;)
 

Eternally Grateful

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I have already posted scripture, where a Born Again can NEVER lose their salvation.

A Born Again...who has been birthed in the Spirit..can never be un- birthed...do you actually understand what that means?

If a believer who believes they can lose their salvation..i would Question that they were saved from eternal salvation in the first place.

You know what the Spiritual birth is yes?

Who is God speaking to here.a Born Again...

There is no cherry picking scripture...this is the Living word of God spoken to his children who have been regenerated...they recognise his voice, because they have been birthed in the Spirit.

John 17​

King James Version​

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them


Explain what God is saying here?..do you actually understand this scripture?

John 3:8​


“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

A Born Again..can NEVER lose their salvation, they are the elect, they were chosen by God before the foundation of the world..I have posted scripture above and scripture here....
I have backed everything up by scripture.
...God has chosen his people....and he won’t lose one.....you do not choose God to birth you in the Spirit....

God’s word also tells us.

Matthew 7:6​

King James Version​

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
John 6:39
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

New Living Translation
And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.

English Standard Version
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Berean Standard Bible
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

Berean Literal Bible
Now this is the will of the One having sent Me, that all that He has given Me, I should lose none of it, but will raise it up in the last day.

King James Bible
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

New King James Version
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
I am amazed at those tho think eternal = conditional.

who think never = maybe not (I will never leave you)

who thinks the seal until (the day of redemption) does not mean what it says..
 

Eternally Grateful

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Did you misunderstand post #164? Jesus said those whom You gave Me I have kept and have lost none. Judas is lost so he was never given or kept.

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none."

John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
troll alert Dan
 
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