One of the Best Explanations I've seen on Satan's sin.

[Grailhunter]

They were worshippers of other gods, so why would they need to worship the God of the Jews?

The Bible does not say who they worshipped. And there is a lot more to this story.....
And it would blow your mind.

 

[Grailhunter]

Seems like it means the same in Greek.....not pertaining exclusively to THE God, Yahweh. Jesus, under that definition can also be a called "god".
Jesus told the Pharisees that Jehovah himself called the Judges in Israel "gods", so calling himself "God's son" was not blasphemy.

A word study of this word is not the point. It was the word that was used to replace God's name.

 

[Grailhunter]

The "Adversary" in the Hebrew scriptures is an opposer. What he did to Job proves that he has evil intent.

God and Satan agreed to test Job. Pretty rude test, I agree. As the story goes God does not object to the way Satan tested Job and it proved Job's faith in God. Of course along the way Job said things that he would have to recant and repeat.

Then in chapters 38, 39, 40, and 41 God rebukes / lectures Job.

 

[Grailhunter]

How is this not obvious when he stepped up his campaign at the birth of Christ?
Then look at his activities in the days of Jesus' ministry. Demon possession was rife.

When did Satan become the enemy of God? That is the point of this conversation? This conversation is not about if Satan is the devil or is a devil in the NT....that is clear. But when was the fall of angels? When did Satan become the enemy of God and Mankind.

The OT style is consistent with the process of oral traditions where as the characters of the story are named after the part they played in the storyline. It was a way to help remember the story. For example Christ's mother Mary....real name Miriam means rebellion because of Aaron sister. Bathsheba....the story involved a bath. Satan has many meanings that were actually used in the OT.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is quite true, but that is not why the Jews stopped using it.
Turns out that the Jews were making frivolous oaths in Jehovah's name and not honoring them. So instead of chasing up all the offenders and judging them under the Law, the religious leaders, under some imagined pretext, removed the name from their speech because it was easier than having to do something about the many breaches of God's Law which were taking place. The lazy man's solution, whilst still feigning 'righteousness'.

This is one of the explanations that I have heard, and only partially agree with. But as God said, do not use His name in vain. It was never His intent to remove it from normal conversations that were respectful.

 

[Grailhunter]

What sense would it make for God not to want anyone to know His name or say His name in reverence. So why did they remove God the Father's name and God the Son's name completely from the Old and New Testaments!

I guess you have to taken into account the fact that the Jews brought such reproach on God's name over their history, that perhaps it was God himself who prompted the action they took......it served his purpose as well, not to have his name attached to such willful sinners. (Isaiah 63:10; Romans 2:24)

Still not the point. Justifications and explanations of wrong doing. A lot of effort and a lot of deceptions used to accomplish the goal of removing God the Father's name and God the Son's name from the Bible. A bank robber will justify and explain why he robbed the bank. If you read the write up's on these sacred name Bibles, they will tell you that they are not that popular and most are not produced through the "regular" publishers....because....people just do not think that the names of God the Father and God the Son are that important......Mission accomplished!!!!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Angels cannot reproduce.

Angels don't, but when materialized into humans apparently they can. If they can eat and drink...why not?
2 Peter 3:18-20...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed".
The 'disobedient spirits' were the "sons of God" who materialized and took the daughters of men in Noah's day. They produced the Nephilim....those who 'caused others to fall'. Men of extraordinary size and a mean disposition. God wiped them out.
God put their errant fathers under restraint when he forced them to returned to the spirit realm. Upon his resurrection, Jesus went to preach to them.....a judgment message no doubt.

Usage: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

Obeisance is an act of reverence or respect. It can be worship, but only when it is applied to God. The magi did obeisance to the child Jesus respecting him as a royal future king. Angels also did obeisance to Jesus, who as a man would never have accepted worship. He told the devil that God alone was to be worshipped. (Luke 4:7, 8)

This is the word most often used in the NT for worshipped. Some translations interpret the word....in some scriptures...by describing the physical posture of worshipping. So by definition and scriptural expression....it is the word used for worshipping.

When did the Jews or Christians worship by bowing with their faces to the floor? I only see Muslims do that.....
I see men wanting to do that to angels in the Bible, but the angels refused to accept it.

Bowing in respect is what humans do to other humans. Worship is only got God. Jesus is not, and never was God incarnate. He is by the definition already provided..."a god"....a divine one"..."one with divine authority", like the judges whom God himself called "gods".

Show me one scripture that says "God the Son".....

 

[JohnPaul]

No, satan was never a top Angel in heaven...that was part of his problem I think. He wanted to be more than his assignment as a “Cherub” allowed. Cherubs were assigned as guardians, which is why satan was in the garden in the first place. He saw what the humans were giving to God and he wanted that for himself. (James 1:13-15) Angel or human, all possess free will and can abuse it if they do not exercise self control, which is a fruit of God’s spirit. (Galatians 5:22)

No one knows what satan’s real name is because God has never allowed his angels to reveal their names. The only two angels mentioned by name in the Bible are Michael and Gabriel, who obviously hold very superior positions. Michael is the Archangel which makes him the Commander of the angelic forces. Gabriel has been used by God to deliver special messages, like a strengthening visit to Daniel, or informing Mary about the birth of Jesus.

Angels have rank in the Bible....Seraphs hold high rank as they are personal attendants upon God’s throne. Then there are Cherubs who are the guardians and then the Messengers who serve God by delivering his messages to humankind.....more so in ancient times than today because now we have the complete Bible, all we need to know is contained in its pages.
The angels are still observing all that is going on down here with great interest, even guiding right hearted ones to God’s truth before the end of this present system of things. (Revelation 14:6, 7)

Thank you Aunty Jane, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me, I always thought Satan, whom I knew as Lucifer, to be the top Angel of God, hence his jealousy for God creating man and giving preference over man.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank you Aunty Jane, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me, I always thought Satan, whom I knew as Lucifer, to be the top Angel of God, hence his jealousy for God creating man and giving preference over man.

If there is a top angel.....it is Michael. There is only one Archangel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Angels don't, but when materialized into humans apparently they can. If they can eat and drink...why not?
2 Peter 3:18...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed".
The 'disobedient spirits' were the "sons of God" who materialized and took the daughters of men in Noah's day. They produced the Nephilim....those who 'caused others to fall'. Men of extraordinary size and a mean disposition. God wip
God put them under restraint when he forced them to returned to the spirit realm. Upon his resurrection, Jesus went to preach to them.....a judgment message no doubt.

I disagree. Angels do not reproduce....spirits in prison are not angels....only one place to go...Sheol and there were a lot of disobedient people in Noah's day that ended up as spirits in Sheol.

Christ went to the spirits in Sheol to preach the Gospel....a lot of debates on this.

 

[Grailhunter]

Angels don't, but when materialized into humans apparently they can. If they can eat and drink...why not?
2 Peter 3:18...
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed".
The 'disobedient spirits' were the "sons of God" who materialized and took the daughters of men in Noah's day. They produced the Nephilim....those who 'caused others to fall'. Men of extraordinary size and a mean disposition. God wip
God put them under restraint when he forced them to returned to the spirit realm. Upon his resurrection, Jesus went to preach to them.....a judgment message no doubt.

Angels do not reproduce.
The Bible does not say the sons of God are angels.

 

[Grailhunter]

Obeisance is an act of reverence or respect. It can be worship, but only when it is applied to God. The magi did obeisance to the child Jesus respecting him as a royal future king. Angels also did obeisance to Jesus, who as a man would never have accepted worship. He told the devil that God alone was to be worshipped. (Luke 4:7, 8)

I have already explained this and proved you wrong with several scriptures.

 

[Grailhunter]

When did the Jews or Christians worship by bowing with their faces to the floor? I only see Muslims do that.....
I see men wanting to do that to angels in the Bible, but the angels refused to accept it.

We that is the way the Bible describes it worship so argue with the Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

Show me one scripture that says "God the Son".....

I am not going to get into a debate with a Jehovah's Wittiness on this topic because it will go south real quick.

The patience I have shown you is because you are female....not that I have any respect for your religion.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Angels do not reproduce....spirits in prison are not angels....only one place to go...Sheol and there were a lot of disobedient people in Noah's day that ended up as spirits in Sheol.

Christ went to the spirits in Sheol to preach the Gospel....a lot of debates on this.

There are no immortals souls in prison....because there are no immortal souls....period.
Tartarus is where the rebel angels were restrained.

Angels do not reproduce.
The Bible does not say the sons of God are angels.

No humans are called "sons of God". "Son of man" is the reference for them. "Sons of God" are not born as humans, (with only two exceptions as I have already mentioned.....Adam and Jesus.)

I have already explained this and proved you wrong with several scriptures.

Sorry, weak argument. You have proved nothing.

We that is the way the Bible describes it worship so argue with the Bible.

I don't have to.....you have simply made another weak argument. Who bows down to worship? Only the Muslims.....not Jews, not Christians.

I 'm off to bed.....too tired now to keep going....

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am not going to get into a debate with a Jehovah's Wittiness on this topic because it will go south real quick.

The patience I have shown you is because you are female....not that I have any respect for your religion.

Well, how magnanimous of you....

 

[JohnPaul]

If there is a top angel.....it is Michael. There is only one Archangel.

Yes I know, but somewhere along the line years ago I thought I read that "Lucifer'' was God's right hand Angel and that he questioned God and became jealous as he was the most beautiful of all Angels and wanted to be worshiped like God, It was so long ago I forget my memory isn't that good anymore.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are no immortals souls in prison....because there are no immortal souls....period.
Tartarus is where the rebel angels were restrained.

I disagree.

 

[Grailhunter]

No humans are called "sons of God". "Son of man" is the reference for them. "Sons of God" are not born as humans, (with only two exceptions as I have already mentioned.....Adam and Jesus.)

Ya...sons of God are not angels or humans. Angels do not reproduce.

 

[Grailhunter]

The topic: The Magi worshipped Christ.

She said....The magi did not "worship" Jesus. Obeisance is not worship.

Now she says the definition of the word and all the scriptures I provided as to how the word was used in the NT is a weak argument. Another person that does not believe that scriptures matter.

Sorry, weak argument. You have proved nothing.

proskuneó: to do reverence to
Original Word: προσκυνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proskuneó
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-koo-neh'-o)
Definition: to do reverence to
Usage: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

Matthew 2:11 And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Matthew 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Luke 24:52 And they worshiped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Act 10: 25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Revelation 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 16:2...19:20...20:4 are about worshipping the beast

This is the word most often used in the NT for worshipped. Some translations interpret the word....in some scriptures...by describing the physical posture of worshipping. So by definition and scriptural expression....it is the word used for worshipped. But it is the same word used in all of these scriptures.