Only Believers are Resurrected?

[quietthinker]

Only Believers are Resurrected?
if/when you love someone enough to trade places, how many chances would you give them?
Could it be that the second resurrection; which is of the wicked, is a second chance?
Now I know some of you will want to throw me under the bus but think about it.....why would a loving God resurrect the wicked just to have them die again? (the second death described in Revelation)

 

[Brakelite]

Only Believers are Resurrected?
if/when you love someone enough to trade places, how many chances would you give them?
Could it be that the second resurrection; which is of the wicked, is a second chance?
Now I know some of you will want to throw me under the bus but think about it.....why would a loving God resurrect the wicked just to have them die again? (the second death described in Revelation)

Not a bus my friend. I'm a bus driver and I've seen the damage a bus can do. How about a trail bike?

 

[quietthinker]

Not a bus my friend. I'm a bus driver and I've seen the damage a bus can do. How about a trail bike?

strangely, I had a bus in mind!

 

[quietthinker]

Not a bus my friend. I'm a bus driver and I've seen the damage a bus can do. How about a trail bike?

ever thought about the second resurrection being a second chance? Not that they will take it mind you, however, why would the life giver give life just for the purpose of taking it again?

 

[The Disciple John]

Only Believers are Resurrected?
if/when you love someone enough to trade places, how many chances would you give them?
Could it be that the second resurrection; which is of the wicked, is a second chance?
Now I know some of you will want to throw me under the bus but think about it.....why would a loving God resurrect the wicked just to have them die again? (the second death described in Revelation)

If it involves choice - that is, the person's choice, I would let them make that choice.
So it would be unloving, if they made the choice, and I try to force them to make the one I want them to make.
Actually, it could be compared to torture, if someone decided that they did not want to live with me, and after they die, I bring them back. When they see me, and they are miserable because they want to sin... that's like torture.

It would be more loving to bring back people who did not have a fair chance at making a choice - like the children that died, not knowing their left hand from their right. They are like the person that was raised in a religion that was not taught the truth about God, and so they did wrong, even if sincere, and died before getting a chance to be taught the truth. That would include people that went to war, sincerely fighting for their country, or freedom, and killed children, and raped women. That would include persons born into households that teach radicalism where blowing oneself up in a crowded market is the right thing to do... etc.
Those are the kind of people whom it would be loving to give a chance, since they never had a fair chance to begin with, being born sinners, and taught lies.

The Bible does say that these are the ones who will be resurrected.
Acts 24:15 reads... "having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust."

The just has been taught what is right, and the do it. They are righteous... like Job, for example.
The unjust have not been taught, or never got the chance to practice righteousness because their life was cut short. They are the unrighteous.
One is considered wicked (from God's standpoint), only if they know what is right, and refused to do it, or they had the opportunity to know, but they refused to know.

A child may torture a lizard, or cat, but as he grows up, and learns the error of his ways, he may teach young one to be different. He acted in ignorance.
The Ninevites were like that. God gave them a chance, by sending Jonah to them.
The resurrection allows persons who died in ignorance, a chance to be taught, that they might learn the folly of their ways, and have the opportunity to live... and teach others.

 

[GEN2REV]

.why would a loving God resurrect the wicked just to have them die again? (the second death described in Revelation)

Yes, I brought up that point early on in the thread.

It makes no sense. Whether the wicked are destroyed/annihilated upon death, or go straight to hell, it makes no sense for God to raise up their remains, reassemble them supernaturally, or spiritually, tell them they're wrong and then send them back to hell or destruction.

It makes no sense.

God doesn't give anybody second chances. This life is it.

That's why the Gospel is so utterly important.

Nobody can come to Christ unless God calls/draws them.
John 6:44

Of those who are called, few diligently seek Christ, The Bible and follow Jesus' example - thus few are chosen. Matthew 22:14

There is nothing anywhere in Scripture to indicate that God has any desire to give all the rest a second chance; second chance at what??

They were never called.

Fair doesn't even come into consideration. It's God's world, He's the creator, He's the author, He makes the rules. And He says that's how it works.

That's all there is to it.

 

[GEN2REV]

If it involves choice - that is, the person's choice, I would let them make that choice.
So it would be unloving, if they made the choice, and I try to force them to make the one I want them to make.
Actually, it could be compared to torture, if someone decided that they did not want to live with me, and after they die, I bring them back. When they see me, and they are miserable because they want to sin... that's like torture.

It would be more loving to bring back people who did not have a fair chance at making a choice - like the children that died, not knowing their left hand from their right. They are like the person that was raised in a religion that was not taught the truth about God, and so they did wrong, even if sincere, and died before getting a chance to be taught the truth. That would include people that went to war, sincerely fighting for their country, or freedom, and killed children, and raped women. That would include persons born into households that teach radicalism where blowing oneself up in a crowded market is the right thing to do... etc.
Those are the kind of people whom it would be loving to give a chance, since they never had a fair chance to begin with, being born sinners, and taught lies.

The Bible does say that these are the ones who will be resurrected.
Acts 24:15 reads... "having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust."

The just has been taught what is right, and the do it. They are righteous... like Job, for example.
The unjust have not been taught, or never got the chance to practice righteousness because their life was cut short. They are the unrighteous.
One is considered wicked (from God's standpoint), only if they know what is right, and refused to do it, or they had the opportunity to know, but they refused to know.

A child may torture a lizard, or cat, but as he grows up, and learns the error of his ways, he may teach young one to be different. He acted in ignorance.
The Ninevites were like that. God gave them a chance, by sending Jonah to them.
The resurrection allows persons who died in ignorance, a chance to be taught, that they might learn the folly of their ways, and have the opportunity to live... and teach others.

This all sounds great, but if a person does not fall under Jesus' stipulations in John 6, He will not raise them.

That's what Jesus says.

 

[Brakelite]

If it involves choice - that is, the person's choice, I would let them make that choice.
So it would be unloving, if they made the choice, and I try to force them to make the one I want them to make.
Actually, it could be compared to torture, if someone decided that they did not want to live with me, and after they die, I bring them back. When they see me, and they are miserable because they want to sin... that's like torture.

It would be more loving to bring back people who did not have a fair chance at making a choice - like the children that died, not knowing their left hand from their right. They are like the person that was raised in a religion that was not taught the truth about God, and so they did wrong, even if sincere, and died before getting a chance to be taught the truth. That would include people that went to war, sincerely fighting for their country, or freedom, and killed children, and raped women. That would include persons born into households that teach radicalism where blowing oneself up in a crowded market is the right thing to do... etc.
Those are the kind of people whom it would be loving to give a chance, since they never had a fair chance to begin with, being born sinners, and taught lies.

The Bible does say that these are the ones who will be resurrected.
Acts 24:15 reads... "having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust."

The just has been taught what is right, and the do it. They are righteous... like Job, for example.
The unjust have not been taught, or never got the chance to practice righteousness because their life was cut short. They are the unrighteous.
One is considered wicked (from God's standpoint), only if they know what is right, and refused to do it, or they had the opportunity to know, but they refused to know.

A child may torture a lizard, or cat, but as he grows up, and learns the error of his ways, he may teach young one to be different. He acted in ignorance.
The Ninevites were like that. God gave them a chance, by sending Jonah to them.
The resurrection allows persons who died in ignorance, a chance to be taught, that they might learn the folly of their ways, and have the opportunity to live... and teach others.

You are assuming that in response to a hunger for truth, these more honest searchers are left empty. There are numerous testimonies of Muslims receiving dreams and visions today of Jesus, and are being directed to Christian churches. God would not offer those opportunities to any who have repeatedly repudiated and denied previous offers. There is a time when the holy Spirit turns away from those who have hardened their hearts beyond repentance. But those who are searching, who are questioning, who are desirous of truth, why would God wait for the resurrection when He can meet their needs today? "When you ask for a fish shall He give you a scorpion?"
God will not risk waiting for the resurrection if maybe there was a chance the enemy may steal away that hunger you think? As for QTs idea that in the resurrection of the wicked there may be a component for a second chance, whereby those who previously had no opportunity for hearing the gospel perhaps may be given that opportunity? Thing is, you are standing outside the gates to the new Jerusalem, Satan himself and all the demons are leading the charge against the walls, you see Jesus Himself seated on his throne above the city and all the saints standing atop the walls looking on, the popular opinion among everyone around you is one of resounding success due to Satan's convincing lies, why would you go against the crowd then when you never did in your previous life?

 

[quietthinker]

We need to give God far more credit than we do. The process of the incarnation rolls off our tongue as if it were the calculation of a fixed formula.....as if we know!
Love is a phenomena few understand well, let alone God's love. It is inexhaustible! Do we hear that or do we choose to slather God with our limited view?.....a view where we think fairness consists of three strikes and you're out?

God never stops loving...never! He never gets to a point where he says, I'm done, p.ss off. How do I know? because the condescension of the incarnation and all that it revealed is not a calculation.....it is the manifestation of God's heart. God does not have love as if it were a component in his arsenal of tools....he is love!....love to the death!

 

[JunChosen]

The 1,000 year rule serves a purpose.
Once it has been completed, the Bible says Then comes the end

Where do you read this?

 

[JunChosen]

We need to give God far more credit than we do. The process of the incarnation rolls off our tongue as if it were the calculation of a fixed formula.....as if we know!
Love is a phenomena few understand well, let alone God's love. It is inexhaustible! Do we hear that or do we choose to slather God with our limited view?.....a view where we think fairness consists of three strikes and you're out?

God never stops loving...never! He never gets to a point where he says, I'm done, p.ss off. How do I know? because the condescension of the incarnation and all that it revealed is not a calculation.....it is the manifestation of God's heart. God does not have love as if it were a component in his arsenal of tools....he is love!....love to the death!

It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[quietthinker]

It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

It's a Hebrew idiom JC.
If you are interested to know some about idioms, here's a podcast you might find interesting.
101 Idioms And The Bible Part One

 

[The Disciple John]

Where do you read this?

Revelation 20:14; 1 Corinthians 15:25-26; Revelation 21:4

 

[GEN2REV]

@Backlit (shadow person)
@The Disciple John
@JunChosen
@quietthinker
@Enoch111
@dad

Found a nice new shiny nugget for this thread. And from the very first Psalm, no less.

Behold:

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, ... he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; ... The ungodly are not so: but are like chaff which the wind driveth away (after their death). Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalms 1

The ungodly will not stand before God to be judged. Therefore, they will not even be resurrected.

Just as this Psalm tells us. If they will never stand before God, what else would become of them? They don't ever stand before God because they were never resurrected. They were like chaff in the wind upon their death. You will look for them diligently, but will not find them. They were like blades of grass in the hot sun. They are ... no more.

The hour of resurrection will come. Of those who are resurrected, those who have done good will be raised to life, but those who have done bad will be raised to damnation.
John 5:28-29

All those who stand before God will be believers. Plain as day.

And the sinners and ungodly unbelievers .. will .. not .. be .. resurrected.

 

[quietthinker]

@Backlit (shadow person)
@The Disciple John
@JunChosen
@quietthinker
@Enoch111
@dad

Found a nice new shiny nugget for this thread. And from the very first Psalm, no less.

Behold:

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, ... he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; ... The ungodly are not so: but are like chaff which the wind driveth away (after their death). Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalms 1

The ungodly will not stand before God to be judged. Therefore, they will not even be resurrected.

Just as this Psalm tells us. If they will never stand before God, what else would become of them? They don't ever stand before God because they weren't resurrected. They were like chaff in the wind upon their death. You will look for them diligently, but will not find them. They were like blades of grass in the hot sun. They are ... no more.

The hour of resurrection will come. Of those who are resurrected, those who have done good will be raised to life, but those who have done bad will be raised to damnation.
John 5:28-29

All those who stand before God will be believers. Plain as day.

And the sinners and ungodly unbelievers .. will .. not .. be .. resurrected.

I looked up the word 'conjecture' just in case there was something I missed....

Here is what the dictionary told me...
noun......an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information:
verb ......form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information:

....thus the council of Jesus....Luke 8:17-18
'For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they think they have will be taken from them.”

 

[JunChosen]

It's a Hebrew idiom JC.
If you are interested to know some about idioms, here's a podcast you might find interesting.
101 Idioms And The Bible Part One

Are you saying, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is really not saying that God who is Almighty does not have the power whom He can choose to love or hate because Romans 9:13 is an idiom? WOW.

Please, enlighten me!

 

[quietthinker]

Are you saying, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is really not saying that God who is Almighty does not have the power whom He can choose to love or hate because Romans 9:13 is an idiom? WOW.

Please, enlighten me!

did you listen to the podcast JC?

 

[JunChosen]

Revelation 20:14; 1 Corinthians 15:25-26; Revelation 21:4

Sorry, but these Scripture references you quoted above are "principles" and have nothing to do with with a 1,000 yrs. reign of Christ on earth!

You will NEVER find in the Bible that speaks of any such 1,000 yrs. reign of Christ in this sinful cursed earth!

You are adding words to the Bible and is contrary to Revelation 22:18.

 

[GEN2REV]

I looked up the word 'conjecture' just in case there was something I missed....

Here is what the dictionary told me...
noun......an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information:
verb ......form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information:

....thus the council of Jesus....Luke 8:17-18
'For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they think they have will be taken from them.”

Incomplete information?

I think this thread pretty well covers it.

11 pages and over 200 posts on the topic?

There's enough here to make a pretty good case study on of the concept of unbelievers not being resurrected.

That's not the issue at all. The issue is, like you say, a listening problem. Because this concept is a dire threat to OSAS and Pre-Mil, the vast majority of posters in this thread can't afford to consider the implications. So it's all adamant denial and some attacking the messenger.

I don't think one person has commented who considered the possibility objectively yet.

 

[JunChosen]

did you listen to the podcast JC?

Is this how you enlighten others by telling them to read podcasts and rather NOT reason on the matter? 1 Peter 3:15