Only Believers are Resurrected?

[GEN2REV]

When Christ comes to take His people home, then a judgement must have already been made as to their fitness for glory correct,? The angels must already know who is saved and who is lost before they gather the elect from the 4 corners of the earth. Which means that there is a form of judgement taking place now... Before Christ comes. A judgement of the righteous... Being first the house of God.

I agree with you to this point. And I don't believe they gather sinners/unbelievers.

Judgement of the wicked takes place during the millennium. The dead are judged. The execution of that judgement takes place at the end of the millennium. No-one is alive on the planet during the millennium except evil angels. The planet after the 7 plagues is uninhabitable.

Wow. It's crazy how many different versions there are of Pre-Mil doctrine. How is it, then, that the devil gathers people to fight against God at the end of that Millennium? (Traditional view)

I believe Judgment Day is just that. The Day of the Lord, God's Wrath upon the earth, and all sinners, immediately after Christ's return. Just as so many passages teach.

Also, I have presented two examples of Scripture that show the wicked going straight to hell upon death. Luke 16 is one of them with the rich man, Lazarus and Abraham. Many argue that it's just a parable, but it doesn't follow parable pattern at all. Jesus never explains its parable meaning and it uses proper names of Lazarus and Abraham.

The other is 1 Enoch 22 which states that sinners are not raised at all. Enoch has plenty of parallel content to make it legit to me, but the same naysayers will deny its legitimacy. That's fine. Most of them deny Giants were ever more than a tiny hiccup in history.

 

[The Disciple John]

Fair points on the Priest's function. I understood a priest to be a mediator between man and God; between heaven and earth. But Jesus is certainly our king and priest currently.

...as well as those who are priests with him.

I stand corrected.

Good. That's worthy of note.

You're using a terrible Bible version. Try the KJV wording. It makes crystal clear that the earth will be destroyed.
The KJV is a horrible translation. One of the worst.

It's inconsistent, outright lying, and false-doctrine-oriented. Here is an example.
If you click this link, you will be able to see that the KJV and any translation that follows that "crystal clear" expression, is inconsistent, outright lying, and false-doctrine-oriented.
That's the word used at the end of 2 Peter 3:10

Yeah, good point. I guess some Christians, who believe in Jesus and will be resurrected, will not be written in the Book of Life and will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Some Christians yes, but the verses do not say only Christians. In fact, no verse says only Christians will be resurrected.

Tell me something though. If you believe the earth is destroyed, hence no earth to be on, per 2 Peter 3:10, then equally, there is no heaven to be in, per 2 Peter 3:10. Is that what you believe ?

I agree Rev. 20:5-6 exists, I don't agree with your translation of it. Your translation is that it takes place 1,000 years after Christ's return. I don't agree with that and neither does the bulk of Scripture. It is what is called an anomaly with no support within the Bible.

What do you mean "my translation of it"?
I did not translate anything. I quoted scripture. It is indeed what the Bible says.
Does the KJV say differently?

It reads different because it's just an awfully poor translation
This rendering is correct.
Revelation 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Using common sense even tells us that
Ask yourself... How could the first resurrection be ... the rest of the dead did not come to life...
The rest of the dead. Isn't that not a hugh hint?
If they are the rest, then it means they were preceeded by others. Who? Verse 4
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The executed witnesses of Christ.
They get the first resurrection.

This agrees with the scriptures which refers to them as firstfruits. Revelation 14:4
You do know what firstfruits are, I hope.

It has a significance, and it means something important (like a restating of the rest of the end times verses contained in Matthew 24:29-31; Isaiah 13:9-11; 1 Corinthians 4:16-17; 2 Peter 3:10-11, etc.), but it doesn't mean what it is traditionally claimed by modern Bible teachers to mean.No.

That does not add up like you believe, and claim, it does. You are assuming certain variables that have no proof in Scripture.Rev. 20:10-15 appear to me to be a symbolic (signified Rev. 1:1) re-stating of what takes place in 1 Corinthians 15:22-27.

Can YOU see there how Rev. 20:14 lines up with 1 Cor. 15:26?

The passage in 1 Cor. 15 tells us that Christ's reign ENDS at that time, and along with that END is the end of all His enemies, the last being death.

The verse in Rev. 20:14 says that death is cast into the Lake of Fire, that being the Second Death. Do YOU see that?

So, ... Rev. 20 is a symbolic re-statement of end times passages from elsewhere in Scripture in books that ARE NOT symbolic, or signified with signs and symbols.

Can I see...? Not really. What exactly? Can you elaborate or make clear what you are saying? Saying "end times verses" doesn't help with what you are referring to.
The verses you provided refer to multiple events - some following others.
Did you have something specific.

@The Disciple John

Any good reason why you refuse to discuss these things in the thread I've directed you to multiple times now?

Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism

Yes. I think there were good reasons.
First, the thread didn't seem to be on the book of Revelation.
Second, I thought about starting a thread on it, but I figured it would only end up in argument, for several reasons... one being what this thread shows. Can I use your words... although, I would not necessarily use your exact (very strong) words, but I was thinking along those lines.

I think it's possible to force you to admit you are wrong, once it's impossible to get around scripture, for example as was shown here, but otherwise, I don't see us progressing very easily... especially with Revelation - the book for which we hear hundred of different views on what is meant.

I think the best way to prove the correct understanding of Revelation, is to start with the foundation message of the Bible, and build on that.
If you are okay with such an approach, I can start a thread, where we can get to Revelation.
What do you say?

 

[Brakelite]

Not in that particular post they weren't.

I saw your post(s) w GC quotes and responded to them.

Post 120 is a quote from the Great Controversy and she includes the resurrection at the end of the 1000 years. Here's a snippet from a larger study on the millennium from Amazing Facts.

Jesus taught that there will be two general resurrections: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:28, 29.

Before giving further specific proof on this point, we must note that Christ referred to the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. This seems to indicate that the saved and lost do not arise at the same time. Two separate resurrections are described. The book of Revelation confirms this fact. John wrote, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” Revelation 20:6.

The use of the term “first resurrection” is proof that there must be more than one. If I say, “This is the first house I built,” you know that I had to build at least one other.

Two points are established in this text. First, only the good people will have any part in the first resurrection. It plainly says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.” Second, we learn that the resurrection of those saints is the beginning point of the millennium, because after being raised they “shall reign with him a thousand years.” According to this verse, none of the wicked will have any part in the first resurrection. This is also established by verses 4 and 5 which describe the resurrection of those “which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (came to life) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. … This is the first resurrection.” This leaves no doubt about the class who will be included in the first resurrection. It is only for those who remained faithful to Christ. But in the midst of that text we find a very significant, parenthetical sentence: “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Verse 5.

Obviously, the “rest of the dead” can only be in reference to the wicked. They will come forth from their graves at the end of the millennium—when “the thousand years were finished.”

Now we have a clear picture before us of two resurrections separated by a thousand years. The good people are raised at the beginning of the millennium, and the wicked are resurrected at the end.

 

[Brakelite]

How is it, then, that the devil gathers people to fight against God at the end of that Millennium? (Traditional view)

Because they are resurrected. During the 1000 years the devil is chained by circumstance. Only he and his angels on earth. None to tempt. None to use in his rebellion. He is loosed from that chain when the wicked are raised to face their sentence... They have already been judged guilty, now is the time to face the execution of that judgement... Which is the second death. There can be no second death without a second resurrection. Those in the first resurrection are not subject to the second death.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I m not sure some here know how to rightly divide the word of God.

If you are gonna pull a topic from scripture BE SURE you keep that topic in context and research ALL the scriptures that support the thought.

You cannot jump around, resurrection,more than one or only believers.....THE WORD TELLS ..EXACTLY what God intends. You cannot mesh Hell with the Lake of Fire. You cannot believe and equate scripture to say EVERLASTING TORMENT with annihilation.

The word and the studying of the word, led by the teacher, the HS is precise and concise!

There are many parts to the words God has inspired by holy men of varied backgrounds and ages and IT MUST ALL AGREE!

The term " Christian" is a useless term,everybody claims to be a "christian"!
A true believer in Christ Jesus will NEVER be unjust nor unrighteous and GOD WILL NEVER REJECT HIS OWN!

I understand if a babe in Christ is seeking the meat of the word but that zeal is misplaced. The milk strengthens the marrow and bones so the foundation is firm and will hold. Meat is for maturing BELIEVERS and sometimes will choke the budding faith if it's too hard to swallow.

Let the holy Spirit lead,for he knows the nourishment needed. LET NO MAN TEACH YOU!

 

[Taken]

Thanks, Taken.

Researching your comment brought me to some very interesting discoveries.

First, I only know of two passages in Scripture that present men standing before God in judgment. There must be more so if you know of any more, or can find any, please post them.

The ones I looked at were 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:12.

I was fascinated to find that 2 Corinthians 5 is actually speaking of Christians only.

This is ALLLLLL Christians the Bible is referencing here. Alllll Christians.

When you say “Christian”, you are speaking of one who is “Following” Jesus’ teaching, and “presuming”, they remain ‘following” and “saved”.

* Men who followed God, (begins with men following God and His Word, for 4,000 years ) before God manifested His Word in the Likeness as a man.
* The following 2,000 years, Jesus, the Word of God was manifested, in the likeness as a man, teaching and preaching...WHAT?
~ How much God so Loves the World and His Creations.
~ How Hebrews, Tribesmen (ie. ISRAEL), has in part, fallen away.
~ How ISRAEL’S blindness, makes way for FAITH unto the Gentiles, whose own beginning was rejecting God...and was CAUSE for Gods DIVISION of men, (ISREAL and GENTILES)...FROM the time of days of OLD.
~ How ISRAEL’S blindness would be resolved, AFTER, GENTILE’S would hear, learn, individually FREELY choose God....or Not.
~ How God CHOSE to Reconcile;
* ISRAEL unto Him
* GENTILES unto Him

BOTTOM LINE:
God LOVES ALL OF HIS CREATIONS.
God “FIRST” CHOSE ALL of HIS CREATIONS, to create them, to make them, and to LOVE them....BEFORE they were Created and Made.

BOTTOM LINE:
God “CHOOSES” to KEEP WITH HIM FOREVER, every Created individual man, WHO in-turn, by their own FREEWILL, “CHOOSES” to Heartfully Declare their BELIEF IN and Love FOR HIM.

BOTTOM LINE:
Jesus (the Word of God), IS Christ (the Wisdom, Spirit, Power, Seed of God), WHO, EXPRESSLY “MAKES” a Freely choosing willing man, reconciled unto God FOREVER, “NOW”, BEFORE a man EXPERIENCES, ‘physical death’.

IOW - Christ IS Gods SALVATION, given for EVERY MAN, TO “RECEIVE”, his God given GIFT or Salvation, NOW, before the mans physical death.

IOW -
* Some, WILL BELIEVE, (ENDURE) to the DAY of their physical death, AND BECOME SAVED WHEN, they physically die...
* Some, WILL BELIEVE (and AGREE to ACCEPT) Gods Offering of SALVATION, NOW, BEFORE, their physical death...
* Some, WILL BeLIEVE, not Believe, Believe, not Believe, VACILLATE, wonder, be unsure, Believe, Not believe, Hear, Listen to Men of the World, Be convinced Men of the World, will Save them, Keep them Safe, Prolong their lives in comfort and safety, and BE CONTENT with WHAT Men of the World promote, promise and have NO CONCERN of what shall happen to them, AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH.

The Scriptures Teach:
* There IS LIFE “after” physical LIFE.
* The “AFTER” physical life, “IS” spiritual Life.
* The “AFTER” spiritual life, “IS” exclusively “WITH” God Forever.
* Every man has FREEWILL to “pick, choose, decide, commit,” to Having an “AFTER” spiritual LIFE.....WITH GOD......or NOT.
* Men who Freely choose, a GUARANTEE of an After Life WITH GOD;
*** DO SO, by, though, of COMMITTING to Christ the Lord Jesus, (by HIS POWER entering WITHIN them, (Kept FOREVER, by HIS Power “IN” them).
* Men who Freely choose, a HOPE of an After Life WITH GOD;
*** DO SO, by, though, of BELIEVING and HOPING to keep their BELIEF, (by their own power), (ie ENDURING), against the odds, of evil spirits roaming about to convince them otherwise, and wicked men speaking to convince them otherwise.
* Men who Freely choose, Physical life is all there is, have no concern for an after “spiritual” life.
*** DO SO, by making NO Consideration for an “After spiritual life”, and “simply” focus entirely on (provisions, riches, positions, fame, comfort, etc.)
During their Physical Life;
(Some by upstanding ways and means, ie working, gaining, etc. Some by underhanded deceiving ways and means, ie thievery, trickery, etc.)

CONTINUED:

 

[Taken]

The Scriptures Teach;
* God has “FIRST” Loved and chosen “ALL” His Creations.
* God provides Options, A WAY, for “ALL” of His Creations TO CHOOSE HIM.
* God WILL KEEP, “WiTH HIM”, “ALL” of His Creations “WHO”, themselves,
FREELY CHOOSE HIM....BEFORE their Physical Death.

The Scripture Teach;
* A Physically Dead man, (bodily knows nothing, can choose nothing.
* A man ‘HOPING’ he can “CHOOSE” God After physical death is frutile.
* A mans SOUL remains LIVING “After” physical bodily death.
* A mans SOUL SHALL, return to a mans BODY, FOR the express purpose,
OF JUDGEMENT DAY.
* Every man (bodily) SHALL BE JUDGED.
* Every man (bodily) SHALL BE raised up.
* Every man (bodily) SHALL SEE the JUDGE (Jesus).
* Every man SHALL (because he SEES Him), THEN BELIEVE.
* Every man SHALL (then) BOW DOWN (worship) Him.
* Then will the BOOKS (evidence) be opened.
* Then will the JUDGEMENT for SENTENCE be revealed, (ACCORDING TO WHAT IS and IS NOT, in the Books (Evidence).
* Some (evidence) will reveal, a man IS Saved.
* Some (evidence) will reveal, a man endured, and he becomes Saved.
* Some (evidence) will reveal, a man rejected God, and becomes Destroyed, (Life in his soul returns to God, his lifeless body, his lifeless soul destroyed;
No issue of his natural spirit, (Destroyed with his body); because it was never born again of Gods seed.) The memory of them become forgotten.)

BECAUSE EVERY individual has FREEWILL...
EVERY individual MUST pick, choose, decide His OWN eternal FATE.
We already KNOW, Gods WILL.
We already KNOW, God is all knowing, and He KNOWS what we WILL choose.
We already KNOW, our OWN individual WILL...the moment WE CHOOSE it.
We already KNOW...an AGREEMENT between two Parties...IS:
......BOTH Parties MUST AGREE to the proposal/offering/contract. (Or whatever you want to call it)
......a bank may offer a loan, the bank agrees, and a man must agree as well, before a bargain is valid.
.....a neighbor may offer help, the neighbor agrees, and a man must agree as well, before a bargain is valid.
....God offers Salvation, the Lord God agrees, and a man must agree as well, before a bargain is valid.
*** Men may Accept a Mans Word to strike a bargain of Agreement...(and we know how that often fails)
*** Men may Accept a Mans Signature in agreement...(and we know how even with that men try to wiggle out of adhering to the agreement)
*** God Accepts a mans HEART-FUL Word...(and God Himself, all knowing, searches the mans Heart, that “IF” his Word be True, in agreement...”IF” it be TRUE, God GIVES that man WHAT God Offered, According to Gods WAY.

CONTINUED;

 

[Taken]

You focus on the term CHRISTIAN, which has DUEL meanings.
A man can BE a CHRISTIAN, (a MIND-ful follower of Christ Jesus’ teachings, believing, following, AND FALL AWAY.)
A man can BE a CHRISTIAN, (a HEART-ful follower of Christ Jesus’ teaching, believing, following.....AND COMMIT by his heartful WORD of Truth)

Jesus used the Term...CONVERTED. (It applies to Israel & Gentiles alike)
AND Converted Israel, does NOT CALL themselves Christians!
The Scriptures use the Term...’IN” Christ, in application to the term Converted.
** SUCH Persons; Converted “IN” Christ, ARE THEY, who have Heartfully COMMITTED by their WORD, of their Heartful thoughts, TO BELIEF IN:
the Lord God Almighty, and by, through, of Gods Power (Christ)... that individual FOREVER; is forgiven for not having believed, for corrupting his soul...and IS guaranteed BY the POWER of God’s POWER and SEED within that man, TO ONCE and FOREVER, Be WITH God.
FOREVER:...during the time remaining of that mans Physical Life AND his after Life, of Spiritual Life.
ONCE THAT IS Accomplished; IT IS Accomplished Forever, that individual FOREVER IS “WITH” the Lord God Almighty, And the Lord God Almighty, “WITH” that man FOREVER. <— the application of OSAS.

***** Much of Scripture, APPLIES to such ^ a man.
AS WELL, Much of Scripture, APPLIES to “other” men;
* men that endure believing by their own power to their physical death.
* men who are vacillating, believing, doubting, not believing, believing.
* men who flat out reject the Lord God.
* men who not ONLY reject the Lord God, but Promote, Instigate, Preach for others to ALSO reject the Lord God.
* men who Believe in God, but unsure of Jesus being the Christ.
* men who SAY they Believe, but DO NOT.
* men who are in a NEWBIE stage, hearing for the FIRST time About God, About Jesus, About Gods WAY, About Gods Offerings.
* men who are only concerned About, monetary gain, tangible gain, and fame, position, per ANY way, per ANY means, underhanded, oppressing, crushing any other to achieve their own desires.

Point Being...All Scripture IS TRUE....BUT NOT ALL Scripture APPLIES to ALL men. Men ARE individuals. God Loves ALL of His Creations.
* God WILL Choose, ALL that Choose Him (before their physical Bodily Death).

CONTINUED:

.

 

[Taken]

When God CHOOSES to resurrect ALL men, IS REVEALED that that WILL occur. The Precise DAY and HOUR is Kept Secret.

Men WHO have, ACCEPTED Gods SALVATION NOW...HAVE already Agreed;
Have Already, Freely given their body unto death FOR their belief IN the Lord God (crucified WITH Jesus’s body), Have already Agreed to Accept Gods restoration of their soul, Have already Agreed to Accept Gods Seed, Gods rebirth of their spirit, Have already Agreed to Accepts Gods Power IN them to KEEP them forever WITH God. Their FOREVER relationship WITH the Lord God, IS ESTABLISHED ONCE and FOREVER, that nothing whatsoever CAN change, undo that relationship.
FUTHERMORE...they ^ are NOT subject to suffer WRATH, that SHALL come down from Heaven UPON ALL occupants upon the face of the earth, (WHOM such men, fall into the category, of “OTHER MEN”... WHEN the day and hour arrives, men still alive IN their flesh body, vacillating, unsure, against, wondering, believing, yet not committed, some deciding to commit, others continuing to not commit....
** SO HOW ARE “such” men who ARE “WITH” God, ARE “committed” (body, soul, spirit) via IN Christ, NOT SUBJECT to WRATH, which SHALL effect ALL upon the Face of the Earth?
Scripture REVEALS HOW...
** THEY ARE ‘RISEN UP” off the face of the Earth. YES they Hear the calling of the ARCHANGEL servant of the Lord, Who CALLS THEM UP, to the clouds, ABOVE the face of the earth, while ALL ‘others’, suffer some portions of “WRATH” that comes down from Heaven Against ALL “unrighteousness”.
* Unrighteousness, of those having rejected Jesus, the Lamb of God, rejected Christ, the wisdom, power, spirit, seed of God, rejected God, preached Against believing in God, and many who expressly Accepted Satan.
* AND for 7 years, Wrath comes down from Heaven...in portions, meaning, in increase of severity. During the 7 years, men who have not chosen God, exercise their Freewill to choose Him...or NOT.
* Choosing Him, and gaining their Gift of Salvation, will REQUIRE their bodily death. (Martyrdom, physical death, soul saved then, spirit quicken then, soul rises to heaven, spirit rises to heaven, body remains on earth) waiting for Gods works to be accomplished (Jesus’ 1,000 yr kingdom, all mortals killed, new heaven, new earth, then raised in their glorious body) ie First mass Resurrection of Those with the Lord God Almighty forever.

Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

* AND WHAT ABOUT, those SAVED, “IN” Christ, BEFORE the 7 years of WRATH, that comes down from Heaven AGAINST ALL unrighteousness upon the face of the earth? US WHO HAVE OBTAINED SALVATION, BY, THROUGH, OF Lord Jesus Christ?

1 Thes 1:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ...

WHO upon the face of the earth, SHALL NOT SUFFER WRATH that comes down from Heaven?
EXPRESSLY...144,000 WHO HAVE Gods Seal in their foreheads.
No other earthly men can receive Gods Seal in their foreheads, UNTIL they are bodily resurrected in a glorified spiritual body.

THE SAVED “IN” Christ, are RISEN up to the clouds, Removed From the Face of the EARTH.
** Remember, NOAH? Remember Gods WRATH, during the First Great Tribulation? Remember the Earth was destroyed by Water? Remember All “ON” the face of the earth with Gods Breath in it, (animals and men alike), killed, physically dead, and their body’s remain Dead, Decaying, upon the earth?
** Remember WHERE Noah was?
In the ark, LIFTED UP, off the face of the earth, LIFTED UP SO HIGH, he was IN the clouds, ABOVE the earthen Mountain tops, floating on the face of the Waters. NOT on the face of the earth that was experiencing Gods Wrath and Death.

Matt 24:
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

For 7 DAYS, Noah was IN the ARK, BEFORE the RAIN, and BEFORE Water of the deep (oceans under the land), began to Cover and Destroy the Earth, and ALL that was UPON the Earth.

Gen 7:
[7] And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Gen 7:
[10] And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
Gen 7:
[11] In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
(Ie underground oceans, and rain flooding the earth).
Gen 7:
[20] Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet of water above dry land) upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (All dry land which IS Earth, was covered)

AND NOAH was WHERE?
In the ark, Above/ Upon face of the waters, 22.5 feet above what was dry land, (earth), in the clouds, SAVED from being IN, going through, the destruction upon the earth....being destroyed with water.

Gen 7:
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Noah was SAVED “by God, by being risen upon the face of the water, IN the clouds.

CONTINUED:

 

[Taken]

Men have OPTION of freewill to be SAVED (according to Gods WAY), receiving of Gods Salvation, and BE NOT SUBJECT TO WRATH, that shall AGAIN come down from Heaven and Destroy all (save the 144,000) upon the face of the earth.

SIMILAR method, as in Noah’s day.
THOSE “IN” Christ; soul saved, spirit quickened, Bodily Crucified with Jesus; raised up, to the clouds, Secure for the 7 years, while the earth is being destroyed.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, (those IN Christ shall HEAR Him), with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

AND...what about, ALL who have DID NOT choose to receive their Gift of SALVATION, NOW....BUT RATHER chose to Believe, and endure keeping their belief, (to the day of their physical death), by their own power, WITHOUT the Spirit of God.....”IN” them? (Ie NOT “IN” Christ) ?
* NO WORRY...They SHALL NOT be risen up TO THE meet the Lord (they believed in, but failed to COMMIT to) in the clouds.
They shall NOT be included in occupying JESUS’ millennial Kingdom.
They shall suffer portions of Wrath upon the earth. Continue their belief, Be Killed FOR keeping their belief. Bodily die, WAIT for God to raise them....AFTER Christ Jesus’ millennial reign. Ie the First resurrection.
*
1 Thes 4: (Believe...but NOT COMMITTED by Heartful VOW of Word/testimony)
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
** (Ie First Resurrection, AFTER Tribulation, After 1,000 yr reign, After all mortals have died, After earth is destroyed, After Judgement of Saved, After Judgement of UNSaved, (judgement and destroyed), and After new Heaven and new earth are MADE glorious once and forever. Then shall ALL the SAVED, Glorified, the whole Earth be glorified, and be Governed by God Himself OVER ALL who ARE Gods People.

* Individual men COMING TO GOD, of their own Freewill, occurs in stages, as there is always, men being naturally born, SO ALSO, is Gods DIVISION of men “IN” stages, (per individual mens choosing during their physical life-time)
* For an individual to CHOOSE.....and HAVE “absolute ASSURANCE” to forever be WITH God.....ONLY occurs, by, through, of....commitment to God, by, through, of CHRIST JESUS.
* For an individual to CHOOSE to BELIEVE...but not COMMIT...”his choosing IS “HOPING” he endures” (and is not tricked by Satan, not fooled by men) and wanders off from Belief IN the Lord God.
* For an individual to CHOOSE to REJECT Belief in the God...He is already damned, just waiting for his sentence.
* For an individual to CHOOSE to REJECT Jesus is the Christ...He (primarily ISRAEL)...suffers portion of the Tribulation Wrath (ie specifically the Wrath of the Lamb..during the SEALS portion of Wrath...(Rev 6:16, ie rejection of the Lamb of God, ie Christ). He may or may not thereafter, Accept the Lamb, and become SAVED.
* HOW, he may or may not ACCEPT the Lamb, IS BECAUSE God Sends 144,000 teachers and a Lamb, expressly to ISRAEL, to teach them DURING the SEALS portion and TRUMPS portion of the Wrath of God.
* THEN ONE ANGEL is sent to teach the WHOLE world remains upon the Face of the Earth... ISRAEL/GENTILES alike, and such Angel, speaking the Gospel of Christ Jesus....the whole world’s LAST opportunity to...Commit in their own Word, a vow of Belief, and BECOME Saved “unto” God...or suffer, the last portions of Wrath (vials/bowls), poured out on ALL remaining upon the earth....who have rejected Belief in the Lord God.

CONTINUED:

 

[Taken]

Individuals and God Himself, KNOWS, WHEN and WHY, WHAT applies to them; and WHAT does not apply to them.

WHAT expressly applies to me, effected Expressly BY MY Freewill, MY Commitment, IS Absolute full Assurance, I am FOREVER, body, soul, spirit, WITH the Lord God Almighty. NEVER AGAIN, can I stand Against God, nor, can I be Divided or Separated From God.
Gods SPIRIT dwells...IN me.
I WILL NOT suffer Wrath during the 7 years Tribulation upon the earth.
I WILL BE raised UP ABOVE the face of the Earth, in the clouds, (ie the lower heavens), during the 7 years Tribulation, while men ON the earth are DECIDING their “choices”.
I WILL see and WILL return to Earth, WITH the Son of man, the Lord Jesus, AFTER 7 seals, 7 trumps, and Occupy Jesus’ Kingdom reserved in Promise for 1,000 years, (Satan sequestered in Hell), remaining mortals reproducing, some believing, some again falling away)...me, Protected WITH GODS SEAL, WHEN AFTER the 1,000 years, Satan is loosed, remaining men WITH SATAN, fallen Angels WITH Satan, gather to ATTACK the Lords Kingdom.
Gods holy angels, defeat the Fallen Angels.
Gods Vengeance, Bowls/Vials poured out upon men upon the earth, AGAINST God, and Preaching Against God, that they be KILLED.
Then Judgement and Sentencing UPON them. Second mass resurrection.
Then the new heavens and earth.
Then are those body’s remaining “WHO endured in Belief” Raised and Glorified. First mass Resurrection of the Saved.
Then is the WHOLE world, Heaven and Earth, MADE Gods Kingdom.
Then is God the God of the WHOLE Spiritual World and the WHOLE World His Spiritual People.
Then is darkness, evil, wickedness, come into fruition, DESTROYED Forever.
Then is Light, goodness, righteousness, every lasting life, come into fruition for the WHOLE world, Heaven and Earth.

It’s a process for every individual to hear, learn, study, know, pick, choose, that which God HAS OFFERED....choose Assurance, choose Hope endurance, choose Rejection....None of those things are SECRET, to hear, learn, study, know, decide...and KNOW what they mean, and KNOW what ones CHOICE will Mean....and WHY and WHEN.

Acts 24;
[15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Glory to God,
Taken

2 John 1:
[2] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

 

[Taken]

All believers are IN Christ, dad!!

They believe IN Christ.

No.
NOT ALL Believers are “IN” Christ.
Belief is one thing.
Commitment is another thing.

Many can believe IN Christ, while NOT committing.
They are warned to “endure” to the day of their physical death....so at the times of their physical death....they WILL BECOME soul saved and spirit quickened.

Some who BELIEVE IN Christ, “THEY” also COMMIT to their Belief IN Christ.
They become MADE a new man, bodily crucified, soul saved, spirit quickened.......THEN, once and forever.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GEN2REV]

I have a really hard time believing that you honestly expect anybody to respond to SIX FEET of text, Taken.

NOT ALL Believers are “IN” Christ.
Belief is one thing.
Commitment is another thing.

And yet those who Jesus Himself says are IN Christ can be removed from His vine, cast away and burned for their not remaining in His Truth.
John 15:2
John 15:6

These are those who are drawn away by doctrines of demons and embrace lies and false doctrine. That is who basically removes themselves from the Vine and is cast away and burned.

 

[GEN2REV]

If you believe the earth is destroyed, hence no earth to be on, per 2 Peter 3:10, then equally, there is no heaven to be in, per 2 Peter 3:10. Is that what you believe?

It's not what I believe, it's what the Bible plainly states. And the New Heaven and New Earth come in immediately. Heaven is defined in the Bible as the sky. Those who are with God/Jesus will be wherever He is forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Can you elaborate or make clear what you are saying?

I made it perfectly clear. Verse by verse, point by point.

Clearly it was significant enough of a score for my contention that you are pretending you didn't even see it or understand it when all others could see it plainly.

I'm satisfied with that. You're embarrassed. No problem.

 

[GEN2REV]

There can be no second death without a second resurrection. Those in the first resurrection are not subject to the second death.

When you use Revelation as your rock-solid proof of a position, you are building your house upon the sand.

Revelation is a book of signs and symbols ... per Revelation.

All of you just keep going back to Rev. 20 for every single one of your end-all, be-all points to prove all matters on this topic.

When you can prove your points, with plain Scripture, outside of Revelation, I will consider them more seriously.

 

[GEN2REV]

Now we have a clear picture before us of two resurrections separated by a thousand years. The good people are raised at the beginning of the millennium, and the wicked are resurrected at the end.

There is no Millennium after Christ returns.

Nothing in Scripture anywhere makes that case outside of Rev. 20. It is a trumped-up doctrine built upon the sand.

ETA:I don't really care to get into it so much anymore in this thread, but we need to take a close look at Rev. 20:10-15 being a re-stating of 1 Cor. 15:21-27. There are many parallels there.

See for yourself: Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism

 

[GEN2REV]

Returning to the OP:

"... I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: ..."
John 11:25
"... I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."
John 14:6

Jesus tells us that HE IS the Resurrection. HE IS (spiritual) Life. Therefore, it would appear that those who don't believe in God/Jesus, don't even have the primary ingredient within them to even be capable of being raised to begin with.

"It is the Spirit that quickeneth (gives life); ... the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are Life. ... Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life."
John 6:63
John 6:68

This passage tells us that Jesus' (God's) words are His Spirit. If somebody doesn't take-in, or at least accept and believe, God's Words, the Bible tells us they do not have spiritual life within them.

"... the resurrection of the dead comes ... through a man."
1 Corinthians 15:21

That man is Jesus Christ. If one does not have that man within them, or does not even believe in Him, they do not have His Spirit within them and do not have that resurrection power in their body.

"For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we will certainly also be united with Him in a resurrection like His."
Romans 6:5

If we are not united to Christ, we will not be resurrected.

"That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death.
Philippians 3:10

Do atheists know Christ and the power of His resurrection? Have they suffered as Christians or been made conformable to His death?

We have Jesus telling us that 'only His sheep hear and follow His voice.'
John 10:16
John 10:26-28
Could His shout be what calls those sheep up out of the graves to be raised up on the Last Day, and only His sheep are raised?
1 Thessalonians 4:16
And we see that all those in the graves 'that hear His voice' will be raised.
John 5:28-29
Only those believers would have His quickening Spirit and Words to give them life enough to be resurrected John 6:63, John 6:68 and then judged based on their deeds. Some to everlasting life and some to eternal damnation.

Daniel 12:2 says 'many' shall awake, but not 'all.' It also says some of those will be ashamed. To me, that shame fits believers more than staunch atheists.
It paints the picture of the many who will say 'Lord, Lord' in Matthew 7:22-23.

Matthew 7:24-27 shows His sheep, who are "hearing His voice", not adhering to His Words and the result of their failure to take the actions He prescribes, His Commandments, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:23 only mentions those who believe being raised.

Acts 24:21 says the 'just and the unjust', but that can certainly be among believers only.

John 6:44 says Jesus will raise up only those His Father sends Him, but we know some of those will not obey and serve Him justly.

 

[The Disciple John]

I like the fact that you are reasoning

Post 120 is a quote from the Great Controversy and she includes the resurrection at the end of the 1000 years. Here's a snippet from a larger study on the millennium from Amazing Facts.

Jesus taught that there will be two general resurrections: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:28, 29.

I would like to suggest another way of looking at it.
How about one resurrection that includes two outcomes - one good, one bad.

Before giving further specific proof on this point, we must note that Christ referred to the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. This seems to indicate that the saved and lost do not arise at the same time. Two separate resurrections are described. The book of Revelation confirms this fact. John wrote, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” Revelation 20:6.

I would like to suggest that if we consider other scriptures, that would create a different picture.
Let's consider that the first resurrection does not refer to John 5:28, at all, but refers to 1 Corinthians 15:23. Here, we note that Christ is include in this resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:20. It includes all who are firstfruits - Christ, and the 144,000 Revelation 14:4 - the heirs of the kingdom Galatians 3:16, 29 - those who rule as kings and priests in the heavens Matthew 19:28; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:10; Revelation 14:1-5; Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 22:5.

Then we consider the subjects of the kingdom - those ruled over. Daniel 7:14, 27
Notice... Verse 14
Then to Him [Christ] was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

Verse 27 includes the saints as rulers.
However, there are peoples, nations, and languages that are ruled over.
This harmonizes with scriptures such as Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10, and other scripture I have used in this blog... namely Romans 8:19-23, etc.

With that understanding John 5:28 harmonizes nicely with Revelation 20, since we can understand that the hour Jesus refers to, is during a brief time period when the 1.000 years rule begins, when all persons in God's memory will be resurrected.
Notice that by that time, all the saints are already in heaven, since they are in the first resurrection.

Therefore John 5:28, is the second resurrection.
Persons who return to life during that brief hour (from God's time, not ours), will either get life, or damnation, based on Revelation 20:12-15.

During the 1,000 years those books that are opened, are the new scrolls from which they will be required to live (We won't be using the Bible, which would have covered our past lives).
Those who obey the things written in those books of life, will have their names written in the book of life (Notice the difference - one book. Not the books of life, by which we must live).
Those who don't want to live by what's written in those books... well they have made their choice. They had a fair chance, but they chose a resurrection of judgment... or damnation.
They receive their final death - the lake of fire. No more coming back for them. Gone forever, with Satan.

But wait... you say, what about those resurrected after the 1,000 years?
Good question.
Taking this all in at one go, could be a little perplexing, but it's simple once all the puzzle pieces are fitted correctly. So I encourage one take time to go through this carefully.

So let's go from the top.
Christ and his co-heirs are the firstfruits. They must all be resurrected before the millenial rule begins. That is key.
So Christ, and his 144,000 co rulers are in heaven, acting as kings, priests, and judges of those on earth. Revelation 20:4, and 6 covered.

Those on earth are whom though?
Well what preceeds the 1,000 year rule? Armageddon - God's war to remove all bad. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10
Only the wicked are destroyed at Armageddon. Psalms 37:9-11, 20-22, 29; Proverbs 2:21, 22; 1 John 2:17;
See illustration.

So there are survivors - the righteous. They are not only the elect - the saints. We know this because the saints are a small number chosen to rule over the earth, in order to fulfil God's original purpose. See here for details. (The saints are all in heaven at Armageddon)
Luke 12:32; Revelation 7:9 (Notice that the great crowd of faithful ones are not the saints)
See illustration.

Hence, when the 1,000 year rule begins there will be faithful people on earth joyously restoring the earth... with God's help of course.
The hour of the resurrection will follow. This is where Revelation 20:12-14 comes in. With Satan out of the way, people will be coming back to a totally different life, and they will be taught out of the new books... by whom? Armageddon survivors, no doubt.

Revelation 20:12, along with the above backdrop, holds the key to Revelation 20:4.
Verse 12... And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Notice... the dead - small and great, are being judged out of the things written in these books
So the question we can ask is, 'Who has to live by the things written in those books?' Is it everyone on earth - both the survivors of Armageddon, and those resurrected after Armageddon? Yes.
The dead then, does not come to life, untill after the 1,000 years, because they now need to be approved by God, at the end of the 1,000 years. That's the purpose of the 1,000 years.
Remember, the 144,000 saints serve, not just as kings, but priests... and what is the purpose of the priests? To intercede in behalf of the people, to God.
Why is that necessary? Remember, they are still in sin. They can still err.
It is only at the end of that 1,000 years that the purpose of the priesthood ends, which would mean sin is removed, and mankind will be perfect, as when God created the first human pair - Adam and Eve.

That helps us understand, why Satan is bound until the 1,000 years ends... so that his influence does not interupt that process.
Once the process is completed, the Devil is allowed his freedom to unleash his arsenal.
Those who did not make good use of their knowledge, or develop a strong attachment to, and love of their God, will side with Satan, as Adam did.

Sorry about the length, but I hope you did understand the other consideration on how John 5:28 applies, and harmonizes with Revelation.
It would be nice, I think, if we agreed, but nonetheless, the important thing is, we can reason with each other.
I am always happy and excited to find someone willing to reason on scripture.

 

[The Disciple John]

The use of the term “first resurrection” is proof that there must be more than one. If I say, “This is the first house I built,” you know that I had to build at least one other.

Reasonable.

Two points are established in this text. First, only the good people will have any part in the first resurrection.

The saints must be holy, yes.
Revelation 14:4 says they are pure - virgins... in a spiritual sense, of course.

It plainly says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.” Second, we learn that the resurrection of those saints is the beginning point of the millennium, because after being raised they “shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Nice. Very good observation.

According to this verse, none of the wicked will have any part in the first resurrection. This is also established by verses 4 and 5 which describe the resurrection of those “which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (came to life) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. … This is the first resurrection.” This leaves no doubt about the class who will be included in the first resurrection. It is only for those who remained faithful to Christ. But in the midst of that text we find a very significant, parenthetical sentence: “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Verse 5.

Agreed. The wicked have no hope at all, based on what the Bible says.
But the wicked will be blinded. They will have no escape. Their only hope is death. - Job 11:20
The prospect of the righteous is joy, but the hope of the wicked will perish. - Proverbs 10:28
When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. - Proverbs 11:7

Obviously, the “rest of the dead” can only be in reference to the wicked. They will come forth from their graves at the end of the millennium—when “the thousand years were finished.”

Now we have a clear picture before us of two resurrections separated by a thousand years. The good people are raised at the beginning of the millennium, and the wicked are resurrected at the end.

I think you do very well at Bible study.
There is one problem though.
Jesus said, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matthew 12:31-32)

Wickedness is a knowingly deliberate willful turning away from God... not in ignorance.
The Bible tells us that God judges these ones as being hopeless.
So, as he demonstrated in the past, he removes the wicked, and the memory of them is forgotten. He doesn't keep them in memory.

I think a key to getting the picture clear, is God's purpose.

Remember Adam was tested. He had to choose whether he would obey God on his terms, or not. That was the purpose of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.
So, all humans have that choice. The wicked make theirs. Adam proved himself wicked.
The reason for God having Noah preach while building the ark, was to allow people to choose.
God always gives persons that choice. So throughput history, God sent messengers.
Those who listened to those messengers, showed they were not wicked. Those who didn't, proved otherwise. God destroyed them, and he promised the same now. Matthew 25:31-41; 2 Thessalonians 1:9
Those who chose to reject God, are wicked, and will not live.
If they came back after the thousand years, what would be the purpose?
The books of life were made available during the 1,000 years.
Those alive during the 1,000 years are judged based on those things written.
The only purpose the wicked would be brought back on earth after the 1,000 years would be to increase Satan's army. In other words, God bringing up wicked people to join Satan... but why would God do that?
Doesn't sound like it's keeping in harmony with what he reveals about himself, and his dealings.

I would say your picture is progressing well, but here, there are just a few puzzle pieces that aren't fitting correctly, or just missing.
I'm happy if we can talk about it some more.

 

[The Disciple John]

It's not what I believe, it's what the Bible plainly states. And the New Heaven and New Earth come in immediately. Heaven is defined in the Bible as the sky. Those who are with God/Jesus will be wherever He is forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I made it perfectly clear. Verse by verse, point by point.

Earlier you said, there is no earth to be on, so have you changed your mind... There is a new earth to be on?

Clearly it was significant enough of a score for my contention that you are pretending you didn't even see it or understand it when all others could see it plainly.

I'm satisfied with that. You're embarrassed. No problem.

What? Are you trying to tell everyone what a high pedestal you sit on, while they are just sitting beneath your feet?
I really hope you are able to do better than that GEN2REV.

We have been all trying. Cut us a bit of slack, since we took the time to respond.
I don't think you really enjoy just posting to yourself. Or am I mistaken.