Only the Apostles were Predestined
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So you don't believe what is written? Listen to me. Throw away all doctrines of men, and possibly demons and read the Word of God slowly and let it be your truth. You just showed everyone that Paul is wrong and your man-made doctrine is true.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
I think I'm going to start keeping track of those who use the admonition,read more slowly, or, read it again slowly.
Especially when that admonition is meant to lead people to accept what is contrary to scripture.
Especially when that admonition is meant to lead people to accept what is contrary to scripture.
Jesus always knew there would be 12 apostles in the end. But He also knew Judas was not going to be one of them. The eleven were to first go to the Jews. But God's vision to Peter later on (who knows how long) that the Holy Spirit was to go now to the Gentiles happened. Then Jesus called Saul/Paul the last of those chosen before the foundation of the world to be the apostle to the Gentiles and take over for Peter.
By not knowing about John 17, you don't know vital information as to who John 6:43-44 is referring to. The eleven apostles were drawn by the Father as He knew them before the foundation of the world. You have been taught this includes you. I can see why you don't want to let that go.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Now you are speaking Truth - Thank You
Question: How is a person saved? Of our will?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Sure we do = God gave us this VITALE Info beginning in Genesis
YES, i have been taught by God thru His Word which cannot lie
SEE Here = “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Question: Are you Saved in Christ?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
No it is meant to read it in Spirit and in Truth, not according to man made doctrines. I was at my mechanics shop while my car was being worked on and pulled out my Bible to read Ephesians again, as I recalled when it was difficult for me to understand years ago. So I read it slowly, and wham!, I saw something I had never seen before - "12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
I stopped reading and went back for context and saw it started at verse 3. The apostles were those who were predestined.
Remembering that time of an epiphany, I recommend it to others. It will show you truth, but, yes, it may also show you errors being taught in the Church.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Why are there Christians who came to Christ, but are now atheists? Didn't they come to Christ? Did the Father draw them? Are these atheists saved because of this passage?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This is a diversion but a good one and we will let the words of God grant understanding = the correct and only answer
On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Earburner
Well-Known Member
NOW you listen. Jesus Himself IS THE PLAN OF GOD!! Paul is NOT wrong about predestination, it's simply people are not hearing who it is that was predestined before the foundation of the world. It's NOT about anything of US being predestinated, it's about Jesus who was predestined FOR US!!!
False teaching. Paul said plainly that it was us predestinated Eph 1:5
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Earburner
Well-Known Member
How you discern it is the common error of all those who read, study and interpret the word of God literally. All of such have the same identical problem as did the Pharisees.
Before the foundation of the world, the PLAN of God the Father and God the Son, was predestinated, that Jesus WAS TO shed His blood as the Lamb OF God, thus giving God the Father the ABILITY to adopt US as HIS children.
Romans 10:17
My point is not everyone besides the 12 disciples, which includes Paul will be raised up at the last day.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
My point exactly.
I agree the plan was predestined. But why have you not shown your text to look up. It looks like you wrote this yourself.
Ephesians 1 (Young's Literal Translation)
3 Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
11 in whom also we did obtain an inheritance, being foreordained according to the purpose of Him who the all things is working according to the counsel of His will,
12 for our being to the praise of His glory, those who did first hope in the Christ,
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