pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Hidden is a Christadelphian?
I Wiki'd to see what Christadelphians are.
Origin stories which don’t exist for people, places and things mentioned in the Bible
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
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I Wiki'd to see what Christadelphians are.
Yes. If you ask him, he’ll confirm that he is.
Christadelphians don’t believe that Satan and the demons are fallen angels.
He’s been using an argument borrowed from atheism to underpin his belief.
I Wiki'd to see what Christadelphians are.
Christadelphians - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Salvation
Christadelphians believe that people are separated from God because of their sins but that humankind can be reconciled to him by becoming disciples of Jesus.[52][53] This is by belief in the Gospel, through repentance, and through baptism by total immersion in water.[53][54] They reject assurance of salvation, believing instead that salvation comes as a result of remaining "in Christ". After death, believers are in a state of non-existence, knowing nothing until the Resurrection at the return of Jesus.[55] Following the judgement, the "accepted" receive the gift of immortality and live with Jesus on a restored Earth, assisting his establishment of the Kingdom of God and rule over the remaining population for a millennium.[56] Christadelphians deny the immortality of the soul.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Correct, we are yet to see an argument from you on Genesis 3:1 - only that you have denied "God made" and instead tried to uphold the fallacy of your ventriloquist story.
I don’t know what you believe about Satan and the demons @pandaflower. If you believe they are fallen angels then the Christadelphian will insult you and boast about battling against you - one whom he considers to be in a group which he calls “the satans”.
He’s waging a spiritual war against Judeo-Christianity.
He’s waging a spiritual war against Judeo-Christianity.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
What's the big deal regarding Genesis 3:1?
Now the serpent was more crafty than any wild animal which Adonai, God, had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You are not to eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@pandaflower so far most of the forum except for Wick have been willing to answer. You can clearly see why. Matthias won't commit because to do so immediately removes his ventriloquist story which is nowhere mentioned in the Bible.
There is a part of me which enjoys his aversion.
There is a part of me which enjoys his aversion.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Sorry but,who cares what atheists believe about scripture? They don't believe in God,they can't believe in Satan or fallen angels.
Christadelphians don't believe in an immortal soul.
Whatever else they believe is impossible to present as anything but illogical.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Being able to reason through your beliefs is crucial, Panda. When you can't, it's important to ask yourself why.
In this OP, Matthias believed he could stand against the arguments of someone who understands the truth, but he has now proven to himself that he was wrong.
He’s attempted to quote random Scripture, attack the religion, and discredit the one presenting the truth to him, all in vain, I’m afraid.
Even tried to sway the opinions of others but the truth in this thread remains true.
There is no such being as a fallen divine angel.
He’s using their argument to try to persuade readers that the devil and the demons aren’t real. The purpose of this thread was to address the foolishness and futility of using that approach.
There’s no conversation to be had with this particular Christadelphian. On the whole, I’ve always gotten on well with them. This one is atypical of my experience with Christadelphians.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
For the same reason a serpent created by God knew of that forbidden tree. And slithered I to it so to set God's plan in motion.
Read Genesis 3.
The serpent didn't lie to Eve.
He asked if God told them to not eat of any tree.
No. God didn't say don't eat of any of the trees.
Only the tree located at the center of the garden. The tree of knowledge.
God told them if they ate of that they'd surely die.
God didn't tell them their eyes would be opened if they ate. And then they would be like God,knowing good and evil.
Which is what happened.
Genesis 3:22
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
See how you avoided the question and the answer?
Why did God create an animal more cunning (shrewd) than the other animals and one with voice?
You are following in Matthias footsteps!
Do you understand the intent of the question?
Look into God's reasoning and search the context of the situation and provide an answer to the question....if you want!
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
You can't deduce the answer from the biblical text itself?
Why did God make the serpent able to talk?
The serpent was clever and shrewd. Different versions use different words.
The serpent was intelligent,shrewd, ,cunning,etc....and could talk.
Why?
He was there to insure God's plan unfolded.
He knew the exact tree that was forbidden.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Well done, Panda, you've made more progress than anyone before you.
The reason God gave the animal a voice was to present an alternative way of thinking and to test the first pair.
If Adam and Eve had only ever known God’s Word and never been challenged to think beyond it, how could God truly know they loved Him?
He couldn’t, not until they were tested!
In fact, it was likely due to this quality of shrewdness or quickness of perception that Adam named it nachash, which is rendered as drakon (dragon) in the New Testament. (@Wick Stick)
But what precisely was God giving voice?
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally (animal) minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
This is why Matthias avoided answering the question, because the answer reveals how God works with His creation, and Matthias prefers to attribute that to a fictional fallen angel instead.
@Aunty Jane the above truth was what I was guiding you to but you resisted unfortunately.
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Yeah my second too .
The Magi .
This is cool . Without names it is hard to have an origin story .
6 Important Biblical Figures Who Are Never Given Names
Biblical history was repeatedly determined by people whose names are neither remembered nor recorded in the pages of the Bible.
www.beliefnet.com
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@pandaflower
I should also add the word nachash has been used to describe various animals, such as the "crooked serpent" (Job 26:13) and the "crocodile" (Isa. 27:1; Amos 9:3, etc.). However, the reference in Isaiah 65:25, which states "Dust shall be the serpent's meat," indicates that the creature mentioned in Genesis 3 was specifically the serpent from the snake family.
I should also add the word nachash has been used to describe various animals, such as the "crooked serpent" (Job 26:13) and the "crocodile" (Isa. 27:1; Amos 9:3, etc.). However, the reference in Isaiah 65:25, which states "Dust shall be the serpent's meat," indicates that the creature mentioned in Genesis 3 was specifically the serpent from the snake family.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
I would contend Adam and Eve were spiritually minded first.
Which is why they were not aware they were being tempted to disobey the only voice they'd heard guiding them to that point.
Besides that, the serpent asked if God told them to not to eat of any tree in the garden.
No. Just one was forbidden.
The serpent knew the fruit would make them like God in his knowledge.
Which they were not possessed of yet.
Which means, being innocent,spiritually minded, they did not know it was evil,wrong,to listen to the serpents leading.
If God's intent was to keep Adam and Eve in their spiritual minded innocence, he would not have put a forbidden tree in Eden.
He would not have made the serpent able to talk, and have knowledge of the forbidden tree and God's ultimatum to Adam and Eve.
If they didn't eat, all that was done prior to creation in the plan of Salvation would be for nothing.
Being it was God's creation,all things, Adam and Eve didn't actually have a choice but to eat.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Correct
They had a choice Panda, but given their inexperience and immaturity they would never be able to withstand the temptation from their nature. Also keep in mind God knows all and He knew His future Son was needed to overcome that nature!
This is why the creation of a ventriloquist-like narrative involving a fallen angel is nonsensical once you grasp God's plan in the Garden. He placed the two trees there and provided the perfect environment for them to be tested.
Anything outside of this is false teaching.
I would ask you if God gave the serpent the ability to talk AND knowledge
why would God later put a curse on the serpent ?What knowledge did the serpent have , knowledge of who God was , knowledge of of God's conversation with Adam , knowledge of death .
Knowledge of someone who had already defected from God's camp as we read here .
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
