OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Michiah-Imla]

its sad that the flesh can not get its eyes of itself. and we can't see it..

The doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED is the source that keeps the flesh alive and well.

It kills the conscious too…

Now that is sad!

 

[Ritajanice]

NO , its far better our dependancy is ON GOD . for man would defintely destroy himself with PRIDE
if he could learn it on his own . Far better it be that we NEED GOD and KNOW WE NEED GOD
and KNOW that our suffiency cometh OF GOD and not of ourselves .
We can do NOTHING without HIM our total dependancy and dire need is UPON HIM , UPON THE CHRIST OF GOD
We are given this while in the flesh that we might know that our

Amen!!....100%......that was a very ,very long lesson, that has taken this old flesh of mine, years and years to learn and understand...Praise God.

 

[amigo de christo]

I know all about emotions....I was born to be led by my emotions, terrible place to be.

Praise God, he taught me all about the emotions..I’m in a situation at the moment...well, I’ve upset them ain’t I...I chose to be led by the Spirit , emotions and manipulative words...recognise straight away..imo.

They don’t wash with God......still they try, LOL.

Emotions and the Spirit don’t mix....Spirit of God must come first.

Lets pull a nathan and david shall we . cause Nathan once approached david and gave him a parable
about a rich man who had many lambs and a poor man who had but one little lamb .
By the time that beautiful parable had ended , DAVID was ready to avenge the poor man and put the rich one to death .
WELL TILL HE LEARNED REAL QUICKLY he had been that rich man who had done that deed .
SO allow me a parable rita .
There once was a lady who was led of emotions and a wee tiny flea of a man with the bible in his hand
had corrected that lady . To which the lady said , AWAY WITH THEE
and if you DARE to come up here WE SHALL LYNCH THEE .
TELL ME RITA , was the lady behaving as a woman of GOD .
Well of course you would say no . YET THAT LADY WAS YOU RITA . I was only bringing words of truth
and yet was accused by you of spreading nothing but hate speech all over this place
and that if i came up there they would lynch me and you would support them . YOU SURE YOU NOT BEING LED BY EMOTIONS RITA .

 

[amigo de christo]

This is a good example.

Another example. is when one says that salvation is of God. But then turn it and say they must (point to self) or else their salvation will be lost.

ways they can point to self

1. Must do good works
2. Must live to a certain standard
3. Must continue to believe
4. Must continue to abide in Christ (only they will use the term, not fall away)

this is pointing to their own power. the flesh, carnality, and not to God who saved them.

rather odd that paul and the apostels reminded the church about ALL FOUR of those . YOU SURE that is SELF .
NO . ITS THE SPIRIT at work TO KEEP lambs safe . WE NEED THEM REMINDERS MY dear dear friend .
THE FLESH is contrary and we need them reminders and JESUS KNEW WE DID . AS HE HIMSELF gave them
and later by the SPIRIT had the APOSTELS TO GIVE THEM and then later to JOHN
revealed them yet again to the seven churches . JESUS I KNOW KNOWS HOW TO KEEP the CHURCH safe .
MEN DONT . JESUS DOES .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen!!....100%......that was a very ,very long lesson, that has taken this old flesh of mine, years and years to learn and understand...Praise God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NO , its far better our dependancy is ON GOD . for man would defintely destroy himself with PRIDE
if he could learn it on his own . Far better it be that we NEED GOD and KNOW WE NEED GOD
and KNOW that our suffiency cometh OF GOD and not of ourselves .
We can do NOTHING without HIM our total dependancy and dire need is UPON HIM , UPON THE CHRIST OF GOD
We are given this while in the flesh that we might know that our ................YEAH PAUL KNEW , HE LEARNED .
This lamb by grace SHALL STAY DUG IN THAT BIBLE . THE ONLY BOOK i read . men HAVE FAILED THE CHURCHES
and their books are worth only this , TO KEEP one warm in the winter as we burn them in the fire place .
SORRY if that offends , but the books of men i read were DUNG DOO la POOP . BUT the BIBLE
, WOW cant say the same about that book . BIBLE TIME FOLKS

Sadly,

Many due destroy self in pride.. and again, they don't see it..

 

[Ritajanice]

Lets pull a nathan and david shall we . cause Nathan once approached david and gave him a parable
about a rich man who had many lambs and a poor man who had but one little lamb .
By the time that beautiful parable had ended , DAVID was ready to avenge the poor man and put the rich one to death .
WELL TILL HE LEARNED REAL QUICKLY he had been that rich man who had done that deed .
SO allow me a parable rita .
There once was a lady who was led of emotions and a wee tiny flea of a man with the bible in his hand
had corrected that lady . To which the lady said , AWAY WITH THEE
and if you DARE to come up here WE SHALL LYNCH THEE .
TELL ME RITA , was the lady behaving as a woman of GOD .
Well of course you would say no . YET THAT LADY WAS YOU RITA . I was only bringing words of truth
and yet was accused by you of spreading nothing but hate speech all over this place
and that if i came up there they would lynch me and you would support them . YOU SURE YOU NOT BEING LED BY EMOTIONS RITA .

Listen..can you please stick to the topic...if you want to discuss with Rita...then send me a message, privately...then I’ll show you the hypocrisy in you.

Did you say “ emotions “ oh my word, send me a message and I too will show you, how you were led by your emotions.

This is not the place..stop being selfish and thinking about your own feelings..pm me.

Please I’m asking you to stay on topic.

OSAS...thank you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED is the source that keeps the flesh alive and well.

It kills the conscious too…

Now that is sad!

No,

Actually it is what kills the flesh. And keeps our mind focused on self and not God.

NOSAS requires us to continually look at self to see if we are ok.. To make sure we are doing the right stuff. To make sure we are following whatever law we follow.

It does not allow us to seek after the things of the spirit. or to look at others to serve them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

rather odd that paul and the apostels reminded the church about ALL FOUR of those . YOU SURE that is SELF .
NO . ITS THE SPIRIT at work TO KEEP lambs safe . WE NEED THEM REMINDERS MY dear dear friend .
THE FLESH is contrary and we need them reminders and JESUS KNEW WE DID . AS HE HIMSELF gave them
and later by the SPIRIT had the APOSTELS TO GIVE THEM and then later to JOHN
revealed them yet again to the seven churches . JESUS I KNOW KNOWS HOW TO KEEP the CHURCH safe .
MEN DONT . JESUS DOES .

Sorry my friend

Paul did not point to any of those as a means to stay saved., If he did he would contradict himself

If your trying to say men must keep themselves saved by those things, Your not helping the church, your keeping people away from God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Titus 3

New International Version

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Saved in Order to Do Good​

3 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.

 

[AW Bowman]

A very interesting discussion, truly. The problem is that most are stuck in what they have been taught by others (pastors, teachers, family members, etc.), along with selected "proof texts" to shore up their now accepted theological/religious position(s). This problem persists in not only personal Bible studies but also in most denominations. To date there are over 40,000 different denominations in the world. (Pew numbers in the late 1990’s.) Why? It is creating “different” belief systems, based on the reliance of an incomplete understanding of the requirements for conducting a comprehensive Bible study. Such is the divergence of views expressed in this thread.

Such as the belief that once a person is “saved”, that is it! Follow the Holy Spirit and it’s a done deal. Sorry, that is not “it”.

The Bible study rule broken here is: On must collect all scripture recording what an author wrote concerning a particular subject in the book one is reading. Second, then collect what the same author said in other books, if anything. Third, collect what other authors wrote on the same subject. This includes researching both Old and New Testaments. Yes, it is a daunting task, but quiet necessary if one is attempting to correctly divide the word of truth. Also, during one’s research they will fine a multitude of apparent paradoxes. Different scriptures saying different things concerning the same subject, even seemingly to contradict each other. A paradox exist only when there is a misunderstanding of the original scriptures. Sometimes it is in the translation and sometimes it is in within ourselves.

With all of that said, the question remains, “Can a believer loose their salvation/eternal life with Christ?”

Yes. A Proof Text: All of Hebrews 6, with emphases on verses 4-6; Rev. 3:5
No. A proof Text: John 6:47; 1 John 2:25

O.T. Reference:

Yes. A Proof Text: Exodus 3:2-8, with emphases on verse 5.
No. A Proof Text: Deu. 4:31

Proof texts can be dangerous – context is everything.

The biblical evidence seems to me to come down on the side of, Yes, one can loose their salvation if (1) they turn their back on God, and (2) if one does not hear and obey the word of God – which equates to willful sin, which is defined as a "transgression of the law", see 1John 3:4.. Belief cannot not be a mental accent to the truth. It must be demonstrated in action (with acceptable motivation), and in loving obedience. Matt. 7:14-24, with emphases on verses 21-23, and John 14:12-16. emphases on verse15.

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[Big Boy Johnson]

if one does not hear and obey the word of God – which equates to willful sin, which is defined as a "transgression of the law", see 1John 3:4.

Of course this would be the Lwas of Christ since New Testament believers are not commanded by the Lord to keep the OT laws and regulations.

An example is... in the NT we can eat bacon and it's not a sin before the Lord.,
Under the OT, that would have been a sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

NOSAS requires us to continually look at self to see if we are ok..

NOSAS (not once saved always saved) prevents us from thinking we stand without conditions.

“…let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12)

You think you stand in OSAS no matter what.

That’s a fatal mistake.

The Jews of old thought they were OSAS. Look what they said here:

“…Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for inheritance.” (Ezekiel 33:24)

But God said:

“…Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land? Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land? Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.” (Ezekiel 33:25-27)

I wonder if you bother even reading the Old Testament anymore.

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NOSAS (not once saved always saved) prevents us from thinking we stand without conditions.

as far as eternity goes. You do stand without conditions. If you could through conditions earn your salvation. Christ came in vein, we could have saved ourself.

“…let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12)

Yep. This is written to those who think they have made it. Especially the sinless perfection crowd.

You think you stand in OSAS no matter what.

No. I think I stand IN CHRIST no matter what

I did not promise to save myself. He promised to save me because I was UNABLE and still am UNABLE to save myself

That’s a fatal mistake.

The Jews of old thought they were OSAS. Look what they said here:

No. they thought they were saved because they obeyed the law. The too thought they were sinless.. Listen to them answer Jesus and tell him they obeyed the law since birth (were sinless)

The crucified him because he told them they were not good enough and their good deeds were filthy rags.

“…Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for inheritance.” (Ezekiel 33:24)

But God said:

“…Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land? Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land? Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.” (Ezekiel 33:25-27)

I wonder if you bother even reading the Old Testament anymore.

This is according to the land promise. Not the eternal promise

Yes I read the OT. I also understand the difference between salvation to a PERSON who has faith in him, and a NATION of people who will be punished if they turn from God.

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

I pray you read and learn..

 

[mailmandan]

It’s mind blowing , how God draws us to Jesus...

Praise His Holy Name!!.....for without him....we would all be in darkness and sin still.....scares thought that is.

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, (John 3:18) saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father.

 

[Ritajanice]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, (John 3:18) saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father.

I always get excited, when I see you post..as I know the word of God speaks directly out of your mouth, he’s in your heart....wahoo!!!!!...Praise God!!

100%Amen.... to your post, Brother.

 

[JBO]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ for salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, (John 3:18) saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father.

Yes that is true, but that impulse is not some divine inspiration direct from God to us. God has produced, through divine inspiration of the authors of the Bible by the Holy Spirit, all that is necessary for one to believe in Him (John 6:45; Rom 10:17). We are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH.

Mar 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved.....

 

[Ritajanice]

He who has believed and been baptised, in the Spirit, are the Born Again Children Of God..you are saved at the rebirth, not before.....no one is saved before the Living birth....which can only come from God...

Spirit gives birth to spirit , then we’re saved, they go hand in hand..only God can testify that to your spirit, via his Holy Spirit.

John 3​

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English Standard Version​

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You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes that is true, but that impulse is not some divine inspiration direct from God to us. God has produced, through divine inspiration of the authors of the Bible by the Holy Spirit, all that is necessary for one to believe in Him (John 6:45; Rom 10:17). We are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH.

Mar 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved.....

Yes

2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

Amazing here is that the only scriptures available to Timothy as a child owuld be the OT.

 

[JBO]

There is only one baptism (Eph 4:5). Water baptism is Spirit baptism. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born of water and Spirit is the one single baptism.