TheslightestID
Active Member
Yes, I've seen it happen often, and especially in arguments on this particular subject.
OSAS Deniers can “ Sin and Get Away With It Too! Here’s How!
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Yes, I've seen it happen often, and especially in arguments on this particular subject.
TheslightestID
Active Member
Just, no, and you have my reasons. You are just as capable as anyone here...go for it.
TheslightestID
Active Member
No one is forcing you to anwer it, and not sure what this dig you speak of is, or is it time to pass the blame because...well, you know.
TheslightestID
Active Member
The arrow is rght there after the Id, pointing up, indicating it backtracks up the thread. It's really quite useful. Somone had to point it out to me as well.
My God is not too small...He is bigger than yours.
Mine is able to not only justify a man with His blood (as you will allow, and as you believe that He only does, as per Romans 5:9)...He is able also to sanctify (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and to cleanse a man from all sin (1 John 1:7) utilizing that same, precious blood.
You do not allow for the latter.
Or, at the very least, when I ask the question,
"Is it possible that the blood of Jesus, when applied, will do one thing (justify) without also doing the other (sanctify and cleanse)?",
Your answer appears to be that the blood can be applied without performing all of its functions.
Now I consider that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine...
So, when we look at Ezekiel 33:11-20, it should be clear that we can get doctrine out of the passage.
As long as you remain in denial of the message of that passage, you are not being honest with the holy scriptures; and also, you are guilty of taking away from the word of God for as long as you do not take it into account within your doctrine (see Revelation 22:19 (kjv))
Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Not something I would want to gamble about.
Also, can you provide a verse that tells us specifically that we can be saved without repentance?
I'm not talking about verses that speak of salvation by faith, either. I mean a verse that tells us specifically that repentance is not a part of faith or specifically that repentance is not a necessary factor in what saves us. A verse that says specifically, simply, and in a straightforward manner, "repentance away from sin is simply not needed".
If you ever did come up with a verse that truly said that, you would be proving to me that the Bible contradicts itself.
Verses that speak of justification by faith do not qualify. For in 1 John 5:1, we are told that whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. And in 1 John 3:9 we are told that those who are born of God "cannot sin" (whether that is to be taken literally or as some form of hyperbole: if it is hyperbole then it is exaggerating to make the point that if anyone is truly born again, they will be radically changed from the inside out).
So then, the one who believes that Jesus is the Christ will have a radically changed life. I believe that this is because placing your faith in Jesus means turning from your sins.
And of course that is not what I say. In fact, I say the opposite.
I don't backtrack as a general rule because of Philippians 3:13. If you want him to answer your question, repeat it. Otherwise you know that he is able to dodge it because you won't.
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Paul Christensen
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I fear I might have mis-stated my comment about following the letter of the Law. I read that you didn't agree with following the letter of the Law, but conducted yourself according to the fruit of the Spirit. I was clarifying that we follow our Holy Spirit calibrated conscience which informs us when we are doing right and when we stray off the straight and narrow. This is more than following the external list of rules, which you say you don't, for sure.
While at the same time that external list of rules is fulfilled by me since I bear the fruit of the Spirit.
The venue by which I have obtained righteousness is not by seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts...
However, the end result is that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me.
If it “ Stops” the False Gospel Of “ Sure, Jesus Saves—- we “ALL” know THAT— BUT if you wanna “ STAY” Saved.....you gotta Repent Of all of your Sins before you die or you go to Hell.....
Yes .....the discussion of “ Lucky Repentance “ NEEDS to have a “ Stopper”....
This makes me want to vomit.....May God help you....... Paul talked about a group of people that were going to Hell .....we know the group he discussed were damned, because Paul’s Love for them was so great , he said that he would be willing to go to Hell “ for” them.....who was Paul talking about? “ Those trying to establish THEIR OWN Righteousness.....
It’s the Righteousness Of Jesus and your Faith in “HIS” Righteousness that gets one Saved— NOT YOURS! Your Delusions Of your own so- called Righteousness nave NOTHiNG to do with Salvation—- “ NOT by Acts Of Righteousness that We have done......but according to His Mercy” Titus3:5
It’s not a time to pass the blame....it’s a time to end this silly discussion...I’m done with it....I’ll even let you have the last word......have a ball !
Paul Christensen
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If you are referring to born again believers in this, then you are promoting a performance-based Christianity, which is essentially a works-based gospel, which features a Jesus who didn't die for all our sins on the cross and that he doesn't cover folk with his righteousness but expects his followers to maintain their own righteousness. This is not the Jesus of the four Gospels, but another Jesus who expects his followers to be sinlessly perfect and if any shortcomings, failures and faults are there when his follower dies, they will go to hell instead of heaven. Following this Jesus means that one can be righteous today and condemned tomorrow.
"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough" (2 Corinthians 11:4).
Of course it's His righteousness. I have never said any different.
However, His righteousness is not impractical (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:17-18).
Now, Jesus died "for" our sins; and this means that He wants us to relinquish them to Him; to lay them down at the foot of the Cross. This means repenting of them and not committing them any more.
Now He will maintain His righteousness in us if we have a genuine faith in Him. We are righteous even as He is righteous if we do what is righteous (1 John 3:7). This righteousness of Christ is maintained in us, if we have genuine faith, through the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).
I would consider that the Jesus of the four gospels is the same God who inspired Ezekiel to write Ezekiel 33:11-20. Here is something that He said in the four gospels that I think may be of specific pertinence to this debate:
Luk 13:23, Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25, When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26, Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27, But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28, There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luk 13:29, And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30, And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
And of course, in the immediate context of this is the following:
Luk 13:1, There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2, And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4, Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6, He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7, Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8, And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9, And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
The key to understanding eternal security in the face of the requirement of a holy life is found in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:17.
The one who does the will of God abideth ("sinneth not", 1 John 3:6), for ever (1 John 2:17).
It is that if you are truly and genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit, you will walk consistently in His goodness every day afterward; because you are a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)). And therefore, you will not fall away because of some sin that you have committed; because such sins will be nonexistent in your life.
The blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
Is it possible that it could be applied and not perform all of its functions in the life of the believer?
And because the gospel that he accepted in the first place is not the true gospel (since it lacks the exhortation to repentance), he does not easily put up with the true gospel; which is different from the one that he originally accepted.
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TheslightestID
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I've done that enough times only to find they still dont answer it after I repeat it, that as far as I'm concerned the subject is closed.
TheslightestID
Active Member
1) I did not obtain righteousness by trying to establish my own righteousness. The righteousness of Christ as it has been imparted to me has been obtained by faith...it is not the righteousness of the law by any means...for I did not obtain it by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts...I obtained it through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 3:21).
2) You seem to be implying that the way to stay out of hell is to reject righteousness.
3) Righteousness in Christ is not only imputed, in the positional sense; it is also imparted, in the practical sense (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).
I am not “Promoting a Performance-based Christianity”..... I am damning it ! Am I a Stranger to you?
Here is the ONLY thing that I promote—- NOTHING but the Blood Of Jesus for Salvation....NOTHING! I hope that clears things up.....
Chapter and Verse for this False and Perverted “ Gospel” please? .....” Turning over a New Leaf”,which is what you are describing , ain’t necessarily a “ bad” thing, but it will send you to Hell like a speeding bullet if you think that doing that good and Noble Thing is going to Save you....Are you familiar with that song that you might sing today at church ? The Song you mindlessly and hypocritically sing —- “ Nothing But The Blood”......? Don’t wait until it is too late to find out that this one song had everything you needed to know about Salvation in its title—- everything else is Irrelevant , as far as Salvation goes....everything else is an “ Add - On”. Paul warned about it and God won’t have it...
Do something today that will make God smile ! Tear that Precious Song out of your hymnal....God HATES Hypocrisy.....
There’s a couple of other songs that you need to tear out.....but that’s for later......one Battle at a time....
No . That is because “ Repentance” is MANDANTORY for Salvation! Just not the way that “ you” mean it.
In this Age Of Grace , Believing Paul’s Gospel Of Grace , Given to Paul personally by Jesus , is what Saves.When you stand Before God , it is what God is going to JUDGE you by. You May as well forget about everything else when it comes to Salvation .Paul said if you simply Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead you would be Saved. Period.
The “ repentance” that Saves a man is where he undergoes what the word” repentance” truly means.It literally means to have a “ change of mind” ( from the Greek Word “ metanoia” )
The man who Trusts in Nothing..... the man who trusts in Allah.....the man who trusts in Buddha ....the man that trusts in HIMSELF ( by his performance of being “good enough” or by repenting of all of his sins and vowing not to do them again) ——- when “ that” man has “ chained his mind”, going from an “UNBELIEVER” in the Gospel to a “BELIEVER” in that Gospel, He has undergone all the “ repenting” that he will ever need to stand before God and have God declare that man “ Righteous, Perfect and Fully Justified—FIT for Heaven!
Yes....this type of Repentance is the type that saves.....no other type . The Changing Of one’s mind ..... a man who “ turns” to God.....a man that comes to his senses .THAT is what Saves ! No where in the Bible does it ever say. “ Repent Of Sins” to be Saved.........If the Bible says to “repent of sins “—— DO IT ! If the Bible ever says “ Repent Of your sins to be Saved” as opposed to “ TURN” to God, with Faith in Jesus Christ to be Saved” , for Pete’s Sake! DO IT ! You’d be a Fool NOT to......
The Problem is.....The KJV Bible NEVER says to do that.....The Bible Book that we use the most often to bring the unsaved man to a Saving Faith in Christ more often than any other Book is John.That Book mentions the word “ Believe” over 100 times. How often does the word “ repentance” show up? If you said “Zero” —- go to the head of the class! A Wise man would pause and wonder why that is so. I figured it out...how about you?
Now that I have Repented the FIRST way, by “ Changing my Mind” about Jesus and becoming a Believer in His Gospel ( a ONE TIME Thing ) and got Eternally Saved by that Belief, I am now very familiar with the SECOND understanding of Repentance — the sorrow and guilt and remorse that Sin Brings about in the The Life Of The Believer , and the determination to try not to do it again because this sorrow and guilt thing ain’t no fun to go through. It’s part of the Sanctification Process that God puts you through to “ conform you into the Image Of His Son......His Doing- His Timing.....
Keep on sinning and all of that “ pain” from Sinning is gonna take away the “ desire” for Sinning....Sin is going to lose its allure when you keep getting “ Spanked” in God’s “ Wood Shed” for
doing it.....Watch how “YOUR Wants” and “ HIS Wants” kinda start to line up , when you start experiencing constant and consistent “ Chastisement” as a Child Of God....
The word “ repent “ has caused much confusion in Christianity ....know that it is Mandatory for Salvation, but also know what It means and JUST AS IMPORTANT —- what it does NOT mean! If you think that every time that Word appears it means to “ Repent from Sin” , you are going to wind up very confused. Here’s is something that I bet you have never heard before .....
One time , Moses actually ordered God to REPENT! ( Repent Of His idea or “ change His Mind” about killing all of the Jews in the Desert and starting all over with Moses! ) If “Repent” always means to “stop Sinning” , that would mean that Moses was accusing God of having Sin. We all know that is impossible.
God Wants all of us to Stop Sinning.....His Ways are not our ways.... to stop Sinning ,the initial move is NOT to “ turn from Sin” .....get the Results that God wants NOT by Turning “ FROM” sins , but by Turning “ TO” Him......like the song says “ Give the Wheel to Jesus”.....That takes FAITH .FAItH is what Saves .....NOT the conquering of Sin in a Flesh Body . NO MAN can do that. EVERY MAN is capable of TRUST......If you are “ Trying” it be Saved as opposed to “ Trusting” to be Saved” .....you are in bigger Trouble than you realize. “ Change Your Mind” about that! Repent! God bless !
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