OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Behold]

“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness;

Your verse says to remain in God's Kindness.
Its does not say to remain "in Christ"., or to "remain in Faith".
Did you notice?

So, another way to look at "remain in God's Kindness"......would be to hear the Gospel, and believe it....as then you are born again by God and that is eternal security......vs, "some seed fell on hard ground".......so, that is a person who believed for a little while, but did not remain in God's Kindness......because they had a head faith, vs a heart faith, in Christ.

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth,

To "Receive the Knowledge of the Truth" is to hear the Gospel being Preached.
So, if you hear it, and the Holy Spirit reveals to your heart that its TRUE, . .and you willfully will not believe, then you have willfully sinned the sin of Christ Rejection, and there is "no more sacrifice for that "sin....because you have rejected the only Sacrifice, who is Christ.

So, the JEWS (Hebrews). in your verse......are doing that........
You can find them again, in Acts 28:28.....as its the same situation......found again, in a different epistle.
So, we see Paul telling these same HEBREWS who rejected their messiah....that he is going to take the GOSPEL to the Gentiles as "they will believe it"........vs "willfully sinning" the sin of UNBELIEF"""", as you find the UNSAVED HEBREWS doing in Hebrews Chapter 6 and in Chapter 10.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior

Again, this verse is not speaking to a Born again Christian.. .. because a Born again Christian does not escape the defilements of the world through knowledge...........They escape it by giving God their FAITH, and God gives them the NEW BIRTH, and now they are born again into THE KINGDOM of God, that is their Literal "escape" from the world's "defilements".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You read too much into Rom. 10:3 – and not enough into Matt. 7:21.
The group in the latter verse believed and did works – but they didn’t have obedience.

I only gave you ONE example – but there are MANY.
Consider the following . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

On ALL THREE cases, we have justified, "saved" Christians who are in danger of falling away and LOSING their security . . .

Actually I read each in context

You failed to prove me wrong

So I will Continue

So now your going to other passage that with your interpretation contradicts all my verses?

Have you not lea Menes until you resolve the contradiction as I did with your two passages. You have nothing to show
Me ?

 

[GracePeace]

You read too much into Rom. 10:3 – and not enough into Matt. 7:21.
The group in the latter verse believed and did works – but they didn’t have obedience.

I only gave you ONE example – but there are MANY.
Consider the following . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

On ALL THREE cases, we have justified, "saved" Christians who are in danger of falling away and LOSING their security . . .

They're not honest people--you'll never get them to admit to what Scripture says--so, unless you're just in it to train your spiritual muscles, or maybe offer answers for lurkers, you're wasting your time. LOL! You probably know that--I've seen you here for a while.

 

[GracePeace]

Your verse says to remain in God's Kindness.
Its does not say to remain "in Christ"., or to "remain in Faith".

Wow, I learn something new every day--not that you meant it (you actually deny it)--but I do like this connection between "in Christ" and "in God's kindness", and "not in the flesh, but in the spirit", and "in faith". "The kindness of a savior". I think this is helpful.

 

[Behold]

Wow, I learn something new every day--not that you meant it (you actually deny it)--but I do like this connection between "in Christ" and "in God's kindness", and "not in the flesh, but in the spirit", and "in faith". "The kindness of a savior". I think this is helpful.

Reader....

Notice this verse below...., in the Context of becoming a Christian, .......or not, as i explain it.

1.) "come to the Knowledge of the Truth".

Ok, lets look at WHO...is = THE....Truth....

This is Jesus, Himself......John 14:6........."I am, The way , THE TRUTH.... and The Life"".

This is all connected.....as "I am the (only) way to the Father, and that is The Truth, I am,..... and when you come to Me for Salvation, i will give......."eternal LIFE, to all who will believe".

See that?

Now, lets say, im preaching to 450 people in a Local Church in Romania, today.
The Pastor told me last night...>"tomorrow a lot of my people will bring their unsaved loved ones, because they wanted to hear a real "evangelist".
Now, that is my Q......as now i know there are people who came prepared to receive from God.

And what is the "call of an evangelist"? We are to take the Cross of Christ and present it, everywhere, so that the Holy Spirit can call people to come and receive what Christ has accomplished for them, on The Cross..... = God's 'Gift of Salvation".

Now, let me show you how this.... "come to the knowledge of the truth"..... will bring one person in the congregation to Heaven, and the other sitting next to them, will leave ..... LOST..... exactly the same as they arrived.
So, there i am...in the Service....and im sharing how their SIN is keeping them eternally separated from God... and how The Blood of Jesus is offered for their Sin.. How they need God's Forgiveness, and its FREELY given.... and how much God loves them and wants them to become a part of His Eternal Family.......and will they come?????......will they take God's Forgiveness.?????
Im asking them.

And on the front row you have : Mihal and Elena.

So, both are hearing the "preaching of The Cross"...... and the Holy Spirit is moving in this room.....and both of them are enlightned by Him, in their Hearts, exactly the same.
What happened?
They have been brought to """""the knowledge of the TRUTH""""".......that Jesus is their Savior and they need to be SAVED.
This REVELATION they are experiencing, is the Holy Spirit showing them "The Truth".

This is....Jesus who said....>"If i be lifted up (on The Cross) I will DRAW all people to Me"....

So.....What happens next?

Mihal, is weeping... weeping....and smiling......because He has Given God His heart faith in Christ and God has responded with SALVATION, as God always will to anyone's Faith in Christ.

whereas.....

Elena......She started to give God her Faith....but then.......The Devil said to her in her mind...>..."""well, if you do that, you have to change your life completely.. you have to give up your boyfriend who deals drugs......and stop going to Discos, and stop smoking Marijuana every day.......you'll never have any more FUN... And you are only 19 yrs old Elena......there is more time later for this Christian stuff.....do it later when you are older......come back to this church later...""

Now Reader......see what happened?
One person Mihal..... "came to the knowledge of the Truth"" who. is JESUS....and did what God told them to do..>>"BELIEVE".... and God saved them instantly and for eternity,, and now they are "of the Household of God". A Born again, Son of God.

And the other...Elena.....DECIDED to WAIT.......after the Holy Spirit brought Her all the way to the "knowledge of the truth".....and She "tasted the Heavenly Gift" of the Holy Spirit's revelation,..... She KNEW IT WAS TRUE...... and She "willfully sinned" and rejected Jesus..... for now......"till later as the devil suggested".

Reader,
let me show you who is in Hell, today.....who is the most regretful.
Its all the Elena's who are in Hell, and know this..= ""I knew it was true.....I Knew it was true....>I KNEW TO TRUST IN JESUS, and i didnt....>I waited"..
And they died before they ever trusted in Jesus.....and they KNEW to do it.

See.........Hell is filled with those..who "came to the knowledge of the Truth"....and waited and died LOST, thinking that "later i'll believe". 'i have more time"..

No they didnt., because Hebrews 9:27 is going to find you when you didnt expect it.......and neither did ELENA.

Reader, you can't be born again in Hell........so, you have to do it while you are breathing on This EARTH, because.... "now is the day of Salvation".....while you are still alive.

 

[GracePeace]

Reader....

Notice this verse below...., in the Context of becoming a Christian, .......or not, as i explain it.

1.) "come to the Knowledge of the Truth".

Ok, lets look at WHO...is = THE....Truth....

This is Jesus, Himself......John 14:6........."I am, The way , THE TRUTH.... and The Life"".

This is all connected.....as "I am the (only) way to the Father, and that is The Truth, I am,..... and when you come to Me for Salvation, i will give......."eternal LIFE, to all who will believe".

See that?

Now, lets say, im preaching to 450 people in a Local Church in Romania, today.
The Pastor told me last night...>"tomorrow a lot of my people will bring their unsaved loved ones, because they wanted to hear a real "evangelist".
Now, that is my Q......as now i know there are people who came prepared to receive from God.

And what is the "call of an evangelist"? We are to take the Cross of Christ and present it, everywhere, so that the Holy Spirit can call people to come and receive what Christ has accomplished for them, on The Cross..... = God's 'Gift of Salvation".

Now, let me show you how this.... "come to the knowledge of the truth"..... will bring one person in the congregation to Heaven, and the other sitting next to them, will leave ..... LOST..... exactly the same as they arrived.
So, there i am...in the Service....and im sharing how their SIN is keeping them eternally separated from God... and how The Blood of Jesus is offered for their Sin.. How they need God's Forgiveness, and its FREELY given.... and how much God loves them and wants them to become a part of His Eternal Family.......and will they come?????......will they take God's Forgiveness.?????
Im asking them.

And on the front row you have : Mihal and Elena.

So, both are hearing the "preaching of The Cross"...... and the Holy Spirit is moving in this room.....and both of them are enlightned by Him, in their Hearts, exactly the same.
What happened?
They have been brought to """""the knowledge of the TRUTH""""".......that Jesus is their Savior and they need to be SAVED.
This REVELATION they are experiencing, is the Holy Spirit showing them "The Truth".

This is....Jesus who said....>"If i be lifted up (on The Cross) I will DRAW all people to Me"....

So.....What happens next?

Mihal, is weeping... weeping....and smiling......because He has Given God His heart faith in Christ and God has responded with SALVATION, as God always will to anyone's Faith in Christ.

whereas.....

Elena......She started to give God her Faith....but then.......The Devil said to her in her mind...>..."""well, if you do that, you have to change your life completely.. you have to give up your boyfriend who deals drugs......and stop going to Discos, and stop smoking Marijuana every day.......you'll never have any more FUN... And you are only 19 yrs old Elena......there is more time later for this Christian stuff.....do it later when you are older......come back to this church later...""

Now Reader......see what happened?
One person Mihal..... "came to the knowledge of the Truth"" who. is JESUS....and did what God told them to do..>>"BELIEVE".... and God saved them instantly and for eternity,, and now they are "of the Household of God". A Born again, Son of God.

And the other...Elena.....DECIDED to WAIT.......after the Holy Spirit brought Her all the way to the "knowledge of the truth".....and She "tasted the Heavenly Gift" of the Holy Spirit's revelation,..... She KNEW IT WAS TRUE...... and She "willfully sinned" and rejected Jesus..... for now......"till later as the devil suggested".

Reader,
let me show you who is in Hell, today.....who is the most regretful.
Its all the Elena's who are in Hell, and know this..= ""I knew it was true.....I Knew it was true....>I KNEW TO TRUST IN JESUS, and i didnt....>I waited"..
And they died before they ever trusted in Jesus.....and they KNEW to do it.

See.........Hell is filled with those..who "came to the knowledge of the Truth"....and waited and died LOST, thinking that "later i'll believe". 'i have more time"..

No they didnt., because Hebrews 9:27 is going to find you when you didnt expect it.......and neither did ELENA.

Reader, you can't be born again in Hell........so, you have to do it while you are breathing on This EARTH, because.... "now is the day of Salvation".....while you are still alive.

It's a good thing to believe that you can't end up in hell born again--what happens to some is their righteousness of faith is forgotten, thus, retroactively, it becomes that they were never born again, thus the idea "the born again can never go to hell" obtains, and, still, the warnings obtain, because, of course, both must obtain, because both are taught in Scripture. The faith must be in Jesus as the ground, so that you are never moved--the foundation is Christ, and we build upon what He has done for us, made us to be, live from that reality, not to try to earn that reality, NEVER try to replace that foundation, or be duped into replacing it like the Galatians were duped by a "persuasion that does not come from Him Who calls you" so that we "desert Him [God]" (Gal 1:6) by believing a doctrine of demons that fills us with a spirit of fear instead of peace.

 

[Behold]

what happens to some is their righteousness of faith is forgotten, thus, retroactively, it becomes that they were never born again,

I meet people, in life and on forums who believe this lie....

= "If i hold unto my faith, then i dont lose my Salvation".

And that is what they believe, as that is what you just posted.

So, i show you this, and i hope it helps you. and if you can't receive it, then someone else will.

A.) Faith is NOT the Savior.

Faith did not die on The Cross for you.

Faith did not shed Holy Redeeming Blood for all your sin.

Faith did not rise from the Dead.

See....., many religious people have this idea that Faith saved them, so it must also keep them saved., and in fact faith didnt save you, and so, it can't keep you saved.

This type of wrong thinking..... is to have "faith in faith" vs "faith in Christ'.....and that is broken faith.. Its NO FAITH in Christ......Its just a religious person trying to stay saved using that idea., and that idea is not going to keep you saved, becasue Faith never saved you to begin with, Reader.

ONLY JESUS SAVES.
REMEMBER ???

Think of it like this.....

Paul teaches......its "Grace = THROUGH Faith...........Not, Faith is God's Grace.
See that?

God is the Savior....and ONLY Jesus is Salvation.......and when you give God your Faith in Christ......ONE TIME...........He sees it in your heart, and instantly and forever... = Your "Faith, is counted by God as (Christ's Righteousness)....on your behalf.

God SAVES a person.......and they are SAVED........This is not the beginning of it......this is the Eternal Application of It......its to RECEIVE it From God, one time, as God's "Gift of Salvation" and now you have it..
This is not a process you do or keep.........its a NEW BIRTH......that is caused by being forgiven all your sin the instant God sees your FAITH in Christ, = in your heart.....and now that you are eternally forgiven......God .. "who is A Spirit"....The Holy Spirit.......Joins Himself to you as a Spiritual Birth. (Spiritual Union with God). ("One with God", "In Christ") ...and this is to become BORN.....again.....as a "new Creation".... "in Christ".
Its a Spiritual BIRTH, it happens only ONCE, and it is ETERNAL.

"well behold, what if i have a faith crisis, 33 yrs after im saved, and i lose my faith".

Reader, if you believe you can lose your salvation....or if you believe that you have to do something...anything at all, to stay saved, then you've already lost your faith......you are already "fallen from Grace"...but you are still Born again, as you can never stop being born again.

 

[GracePeace]

I meet people, in life and on forums who believe this lie....

= "If i hold unto my faith, then i dont lose my Salvation".

And that is what they believe, as that is what you just posted.

So, i show you this, and i hope it helps you. and if you can't receive it, then someone else will.

A.) Faith is NOT the Savior.

Faith did not die on The Cross for you.

Faith did not shed Holy Redeeming Blood for all your sin.

Faith did not rise from the Dead.

See....., many religious people have this idea that Faith saved them, so it must also keep them saved., and in fact faith didnt save you, and so, it can't keep you saved.

This type of wrong thinking..... is to have "faith in faith" vs "faith in Christ'.....and that is broken faith.. Its NO FAITH in Christ......Its just a religious person trying to stay saved using that idea., and that idea is not going to keep you saved, becasue Faith never saved you to begin with, Reader.

ONLY JESUS SAVES.
REMEMBER ???

Think of it like this.....

Paul teaches......its "Grace = THROUGH Faith...........Not, Faith is God's Grace.
See that?

God is the Savior....and ONLY Jesus is Salvation.......and when you give God your Faith in Christ......ONE TIME...........He sees it in your heart, and instantly and forever... = Your "Faith, is counted by God as (Christ's Righteousness)....on your behalf.

God SAVES a person.......and they are SAVED........This is not the beginning of it......this is the Eternal Application of It......its to RECEIVE it From God, one time, as God's "Gift of Salvation" and now you have it..
This is not a process you do or keep.........its a NEW BIRTH......that is caused by being forgiven all your sin the instant God sees your FAITH in Christ, = in your heart.....and now that you are eternally forgiven......God .. "who is A Spirit"....The Holy Spirit.......Joins Himself to you as a Spiritual Birth. (Spiritual Union with God). ("One with God", "In Christ") ...and this is to become BORN.....again.....as a "new Creation".... "in Christ".
Its a Spiritual BIRTH, it happens only ONCE, and it is ETERNAL.

"well behold, what if i have a faith crisis, 33 yrs after im saved, and i lose my faith".

Reader, if you believe you can lose your salvation....or if you believe that you have to do something...anything at all, to stay saved, then you've already lost your faith......you are already "fallen from Grace"...but you are still Born again, as you can never stop being born again.

Irrelevant : if your "god" doesn't forget righteousness, but only forgets sin, it isn't the Bible's God, it is idolatry, because the God of Scripture is able to forget not only sin (which attribute you cherry pick and arbitrarily grant, while disallowing and disbelieving the other attribute, present in the very same verse Ez 18:24), but doesn't forget righteousness, then your god changes, but the God of Scripture doesn't change, but remains the same yesterday today and forever--and you have no way of coherently explaining how events like those with the unforgiving servant (Mt 18), or the lazy servant (Mt 25), occur. The unforgiving servant WAS FORGIVEN, by the righteousness of faith (Ro 4:6-8), all his debt, but, later, because he didn't walk in faith in the truth of that love shown to him, he came to a place where god rescinded that forgiveness, inferring the removal or loss or forgetting of his righteousness of faith, because, now, he had to pay for those very same debts that had been forgiven through righteousness of faith. Jesus says this depicts what God can do to us if we don't forgive.
You have to believe ALL of Scripture, not just part of it.
Therefore, let us "labor to enter the rest", always resting and rejoicing in what Christ has done for us, being diligent to be found of Him in peace.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually I read each in context
You failed to prove me wrong
So I will Continue
So now your going to other passage that with your interpretation contradicts all my verses?

Have you not lea Menes until you resolve the contradiction as I did with your two passages. You have nothing to show
Me ?

There is nothing to “resolve” on MY part. And the only reason I posted in the example of 3 more verses was to show you the exact SAME point that you couldn’t see with the first 2. It’s another example of one verse making a statement that is explained more FULLY by another.

You couldn’t see that because you are a Scriptural cherry-picker – who only points to the verses that “clearly” show your point, while ignoring the ones that don't.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is nothing to “resolve” on MY part. And the only reason I posted in the example of 3 more verses was to show you the exact SAME point that you couldn’t see with the first 2. It’s another example of one verse making a statement that is explained more FULLY by another.

You couldn’t see that because you are a Scriptural cherry-picker – who only points to the verses that “clearly” show your point, while ignoring the ones that don't.

You still have not resolved the contradictions between your verses and mine.

since I have and you have failed to show me otherwise. I will move on.. Good day

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your verse says to remain in God's Kindness.
Its does not say to remain "in Christ"., or to "remain in Faith".
Did you notice?

So, another way to look at "remain in God's Kindness"......would be to hear the Gospel, and believe it....as then you are born again by God and that is eternal security......vs, "some seed fell on hard ground".......so, that is a person who believed for a little while, but did not remain in God's Kindness......because they had a head faith, vs a heart faith, in Christ.

You cannot “remain in Go’s kindness if you DON’T remain in faith and DON’T trmain in Christ.

Try again . . .

To "Receive the Knowledge of the Truth" is to hear the Gospel being Preached.
So, if you hear it, and the Holy Spirit reveals to your heart that its TRUE, . .and you willfully will not believe, then you have willfully sinned the sin of Christ Rejection, and there is "no more sacrifice for that "sin....because you have rejected the only Sacrifice, who is Christ.

So, the JEWS (Hebrews). in your verse......are doing that........
You can find them again, in Acts 28:28.....as its the same situation......found again, in a different epistle.
So, we see Paul telling these same HEBREWS who rejected their messiah....that he is going to take the GOSPEL to the Gentiles as "they will believe it"........vs "willfully sinning" the sin of UNBELIEF"""", as you find the UNSAVED HEBREWS doing in Hebrews Chapter 6 and in Chapter 10.

Again, this verse is not speaking to a Born again Christian.. .. because a Born again Christian does not escape the defilements of the world through knowledge...........They escape it by giving God their FAITH, and God gives them the NEW BIRTH, and now they are born again into THE KINGDOM of God, that is their Literal "escape" from the world's "defilements".

WRONG on BOTH counts.

As I explained above – the word Epignosis is used instead of gnosis. This is a full, experiential and relational knowledge – not just an intellectual assent.

The following respected NON-CATHOLIC scholars agree . . .

Richard Chenevix Trench
“In comparing epignosis with gnosis, the “epi” must be regarded as an intensive use of a preposition that gives the compound word a greater strength than the simple word alone possesses” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

J.B. Lightfoot
“The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words
“epignosis, akin to A, No. 3, denotes "exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition,"

“… in John 8:32, ‘ye shall know the truth,’ Gnosis (ginosko) is used, whereas in 1 Tim. 4:3, “them that believe and know the truth,’ Epignosis (epiginosko) lays stress on participation in the truth.”

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25:
1. Knowledge as recognition of the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

 

[GracePeace]

I meet people, in life and on forums who believe this lie....

= "If i hold unto my faith, then i dont lose my Salvation".

And that is what they believe, as that is what you just posted.

So, i show you this, and i hope it helps you. and if you can't receive it, then someone else will.

A.) Faith is NOT the Savior.

Faith did not die on The Cross for you.

Faith did not shed Holy Redeeming Blood for all your sin.

Faith did not rise from the Dead.

See....., many religious people have this idea that Faith saved them, so it must also keep them saved., and in fact faith didnt save you, and so, it can't keep you saved.

This type of wrong thinking..... is to have "faith in faith" vs "faith in Christ'.....and that is broken faith.. Its NO FAITH in Christ......Its just a religious person trying to stay saved using that idea., and that idea is not going to keep you saved, becasue Faith never saved you to begin with, Reader.

ONLY JESUS SAVES.
REMEMBER ???

Think of it like this.....

Paul teaches......its "Grace = THROUGH Faith...........Not, Faith is God's Grace.
See that?

God is the Savior....and ONLY Jesus is Salvation.......and when you give God your Faith in Christ......ONE TIME...........He sees it in your heart, and instantly and forever... = Your "Faith, is counted by God as (Christ's Righteousness)....on your behalf.

God SAVES a person.......and they are SAVED........This is not the beginning of it......this is the Eternal Application of It......its to RECEIVE it From God, one time, as God's "Gift of Salvation" and now you have it..
This is not a process you do or keep.........its a NEW BIRTH......that is caused by being forgiven all your sin the instant God sees your FAITH in Christ, = in your heart.....and now that you are eternally forgiven......God .. "who is A Spirit"....The Holy Spirit.......Joins Himself to you as a Spiritual Birth. (Spiritual Union with God). ("One with God", "In Christ") ...and this is to become BORN.....again.....as a "new Creation".... "in Christ".
Its a Spiritual BIRTH, it happens only ONCE, and it is ETERNAL.

"well behold, what if i have a faith crisis, 33 yrs after im saved, and i lose my faith".

Reader, if you believe you can lose your salvation....or if you believe that you have to do something...anything at all, to stay saved, then you've already lost your faith......you are already "fallen from Grace"...but you are still Born again, as you can never stop being born again.

You're not going to understand the Bible as long as you rely on classical physics ("Either Christ loses none, or He loses some--you can't say anyone falls away AND He loses none are both true!"); Quantum Physics is the way the world actually works, and is the only basis whereby Scripture coheres with Scripture :

1. Quantum Superposition & Final Collapse​

In quantum physics:

• A particle can exist in multiple possible states simultaneously (superposition),
• Until it is observed or measured, at which point its wavefunction collapses into one definitive state.

Apply this theologically:

• The “number of Christ’s sheep”, of which He loses none, is not static at all times.
• Only those who continue in the truth are finally resolved as sheep.

So, in Quantum Physics terms:

The true number of sheep exists in superposition,
and the final judgment collapses the wavefunction—
determining retroactively who truly was His all along.

---

2. Quantum Physics Retrocausality & Narrative Rewriting​

In some interpretations of quantum theory (especially time-symmetric ones), the future can affect the past—not by changing what occurred, but by changing what is real about what occurred.

This mirrors the theological claim:

A person was a sheep in lived history,
but if they cease to abide, their final state retroactively reclassifies their past,
so that it becomes true they never were His.

This isn’t relativism—it’s narrative resolution based on final state.

---

3. Theological Harmony​

“We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” —Hebrews 3:14

This sounds a lot like:

“You are in a superposition of sharing in Christ
and not truly being of us (1 John 2:19)—
and your final endurance determines your true identity all along.”

---

4. Why This Upholds God’s Glory​

This model:

• Preserves Christ’s perfect obedience: He loses none.
• Upholds human freedom and responsibility: abiding is necessary.
• Honors biblical warnings: cut off branches are real, and John addresses "little children", "true" believers (1 Jn 2:28).
• Is scientifically coherent with non-classical logic, especially in quantum systems that allow backward consistency once a final state is observed.

---

Summary Theological-Quantum Axiom:​

Only those who abide in the what they heard from the beginning (eg, believing that Christ loses none) are finally His sheep.
The final number of Christ’s sheep is not statically visible throughout history,
but becomes visible only in the end—at which point, that number retroactively becomes the number it always was.
Apostasy collapses one’s identity wavefunction: it retroactively becomes true that they never were believers promised to be kept.
In this, both divine glory and personal accountability are preserved, without contradiction.

 

[GracePeace]

You're not going to understand the Bible as long as you rely on classical physics ("Either Christ loses none, or He loses some--you can't say anyone falls away AND He loses none are both true!"); Quantum Physics is the way the world actually works, and is the only basis whereby Scripture coheres with Scripture :

1. Quantum Superposition & Final Collapse​

In quantum physics:

• A particle can exist in multiple possible states simultaneously (superposition),
• Until it is observed or measured, at which point its wavefunction collapses into one definitive state.

Apply this theologically:

• The “number of Christ’s sheep”, of which He loses none, is not static at all times.
• Only those who continue in the truth are finally resolved as sheep.

So, in Quantum Physics terms:

---

2. Quantum Physics Retrocausality & Narrative Rewriting​

In some interpretations of quantum theory (especially time-symmetric ones), the future can affect the past—not by changing what occurred, but by changing what is real about what occurred.

This mirrors the theological claim:

This isn’t relativism—it’s narrative resolution based on final state.

---

3. Theological Harmony​

This sounds a lot like:

---

4. Why This Upholds God’s Glory​

This model:

• Preserves Christ’s perfect obedience: He loses none.
• Upholds human freedom and responsibility: abiding is necessary.
• Honors biblical warnings: cut off branches are real, and John addresses "little children", "true" believers (1 Jn 2:28).
• Is scientifically coherent with non-classical logic, especially in quantum systems that allow backward consistency once a final state is observed.

---

Summary Theological-Quantum Axiom:​

That said, I'm not a QP "professor", so anyone who knows better, and wants to interact with the post, and challenge me on it, and help improve it, is welcome to.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You still have not resolved the contradictions between your verses and mine.

since I have and you have failed to show me otherwise. I will move on.. Good day

Unnnn, that's because there are NO contradictions. Scripture cannot contradict itself.
When is that going to sink in??

I've given you almost TWO DOZEN verses that prove my point.
Rom. 10:3/Matt. 7:21, Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unnnn, that's because there are NO contradictions. Scripture cannot contradict itself.
When is that going to sink in??

I've given you almost TWO DOZEN verses that prove my point.
Rom. 10:3/Matt. 7:21, Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

lol

Yes there is

My passages say NO WORKS

My passages say it is of grace thus it is not of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

My passages say it is not of good works (of righteousness) which we do but by his mercy he saved us

My passages say we are saved by Grave, through faith and not of works

Those verses do not prove anything. using your interpretation.

again, resolve the contradiction. Or we are done. because we can not move forward until this is done.

you showed me one and I resolved it. if you want to show me others. feel free.

But don;t keep pushing the same verses that using your interpretation. caused the bible to contradict itself.

 

[BreadOfLife]

lol

Yes there is

My passages say NO WORKS

My passages say it is of grace thus it is not of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

My passages say it is not of good works (of righteousness) which we do but by his mercy he saved us

My passages say we are saved by Grave, through faith and not of works

Those verses do not prove anything. using your interpretation.

again, resolve the contradiction. Or we are done. because we can not move forward until this is done.

you showed me one and I resolved it. if you want to show me others. feel free.

But don;t keep pushing the same verses that using your interpretation. caused the bible to contradict itself.

AGAIN - there is NO contradictions.

We ARE saved by God’s grace and NOT of our own works.
However - we are saved by God’s grace through faith, which includes the good works that HE prepared for us in advance to complete (Eph. 2:10).

Not every single verse in Scripture gives us the full explanation. That’s why you need the rest of Scripture to know the FULL CONTEXT. YOU offer a verse like Rom. 3:28 that say: "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law".
Whereas, we read in James 2:24: “You see that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.”

These are NOT contradictory verses. Paul is making a general statement.
James explains WHAT true faith actually is (James 2:14:24). These aren’t works of Law or done by nature. As I said – GOD prepared these works of faith for us to complete (Eph. 2:10).

 

[Marymog]

lol

Yes there is

My passages say NO WORKS

My passages say it is of grace thus it is not of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

My passages say it is not of good works (of righteousness) which we do but by his mercy he saved us

My passages say we are saved by Grave, through faith and not of works

Those verses do not prove anything. using your interpretation.

again, resolve the contradiction. Or we are done. because we can not move forward until this is done.

you showed me one and I resolved it. if you want to show me others. feel free.

But don;t keep pushing the same verses that using your interpretation. caused the bible to contradict itself.

Hey EG,

Have you read Matthew 25:31-46? At the end of that teaching Jesus said that those of you that "did not do it (give food, drink, clothes, shelter) to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

What I suspect your response to me, and Jesus, will be is that helping those in need is NOT WORKS. But I could be wrong....you may surprise me. As for @BreadOfLife and me.....we will continue to adhere to Scripture and agree with Scripture: Faith, without works, is dead!