OSAS is now teaching faith with works, and not faith alone.

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mailmandan

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Robert, there are some who will tell you that you are justified by grace through faith initially, and then works come into the picture through sanctification to keep you saved.

That is not true! I can help you with Scripture for that if you need it.
Amen! I call that "type 2 works salvation" and its absolutely NOT true.. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.
 
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robert derrick

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You've asked 3 times with no answer or you've read my posts and don't see the answer?

Paul plainly said we are saved by faith not of works, lest any man should boast. I've shown you that.

James brings works in the picture in a different way. If faith plus works can justify, then James has something to boast about. His works helped same him. So he can say I helped save myself by my works.

Paul said straight out we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

Are you going to ignore Paul as the Catholics do, or are you going to reread James to see why he appeared to say just the opposite of Paul?
No I don't see a yes/no answer to the specific point of the thread, but only your continued doctrinal talk around it.

How can faith alone, never be alone, if not with works? It's a simple question. Do you agree with this statement or not? And if so, then how?
 

robert derrick

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You've asked 3 times with no answer or you've read my posts and don't see the answer?

Paul plainly said we are saved by faith not of works, lest any man should boast. I've shown you that.

James brings works in the picture in a different way. If faith plus works can justify, then James has something to boast about. His works helped same him. So he can say I helped save myself by my works.

Paul said straight out we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

Are you going to ignore Paul as the Catholics do, or are you going to reread James to see why he appeared to say just the opposite of Paul?


No I don't see a yes/no answer to the specific point of the thread, and your teaching about it doesn't answer it plainly:

How can faith alone, never be alone? And if faith alone is really not alone, then how so without works?

I'm just curious to hear anyone answer the question simply. I say the statement is of course false and a silly attempt to make someone faith alone have some substance and evidence to it without works.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Faith alone, can never not be alone, except it be with works.

In any case, I do want to commend you on separating yourself from OSAS hypocrisy in several important ways:
1. You do acknowledge Scripture teaching us we can ensure we never fall in sinning, by adding to our faith the things that accompany salvation in spiritual works first, and also in the flesh. (2 Peter 1)

2. You also acknowledge the truth of Scripture that only past sinning is forgiven, and if, not when, we do sin, then we must and can confess with godly sorrow to be forgiven by Jesus, even as when we first confessed unto forgiveness of all our past sinning. (Romans 3) (1 John 1-2)

The importance of acknowledge these two things, is that you continue in the fear of the Lord not to go on sinning, which OSAS casts away by declaring all men are sinners from cradle to grave, including Christians, who are not different than sinners when it comes to sinning in works of the flesh. The OSAS ones just declare themselves non-condemned while doing so. When they are not being justified by good works of faith, they continue to justify themselves during sinful works of the flesh.

Your OSAS errors however, I believe are in words only with you:

1. Your teaching of remaining perfect in God's sight while sinning with the devil is false of course, but you don't really believe that with the heart, else you would not be teaching the truth, that if we sin, we must confess such sinning unto forgiveness by Jesus.

If we are not condemned while sinning like the world, and are still judged righteous and perfect in His sight, then there is no condemnation nor need of forgiveness. And so, to try and confess such sinning with godly sorrow to be forgiven, would become unbelief and forbidden.

2. I also believe you're teaching salvation by faith alone without works, is in words only, and for you is nothing but a doctrinal distinction without a practical difference. You do believe and practice the truth of obtaining eternal salvation in the end by obeying Jesus, and not just by only believing He is the one true God, even as the devils also believe.

I have heard from righteous saints as yourself trying to teach some sort of initial salvation by faith alone, which must be followed with works of righteousness by faith, and condemn sinning in the flesh, even as Jesus did on earth. I just don't except there are two salvations, initially by faith alone, and then with works of faith. Since any and all faith alone is dead, especially when it comes to saving any man.

The error of initial faith alone without works, is in only seeing works as the natural man. The natural man does not see the spiritual things, but only the flesh, and so believes there must always be a certain temporal timeline between faith and works. However, in your teaching oabout faith and works, you need to consider the first works of our faith and fighting our spiritual warfare within. We must do these spiritual first works with Jesus' help, to resist the devil's temptations in our renewed mind of Christ, that we may not fall to temptation in the flesh.

I know you do these spiritual works within with Jesus, for your own soul sake, else you could not possibly believe you have power and assurance not to fall. Carnal OSAS believers won't even acknowledge cleansing our spirit first, much less agree anyone can cleanse the flesh thereby:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 

Charlie24

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No I don't see a yes/no answer to the specific point of the thread, but only your continued doctrinal talk around it.

How can faith alone, never be alone, if not with works? It's a simple question. Do you agree with this statement or not? And if so, then how?

Works are not of the same level as faith, works cannot save a man. Faith is what saves through God's Grace alone.

Works are a by-product or the results of faith. They go hand in hand but are not equal in results of what they accomplish.

So yes, faith is not alone, but do you see what this means? Faith + works do not = salvation.

Faith = salvation = works. Works will follow true faith. Every born-again believer will have works, some more than others.
 
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Charlie24

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No I don't see a yes/no answer to the specific point of the thread, and your teaching about it doesn't answer it plainly:

How can faith alone, never be alone? And if faith alone is really not alone, then how so without works?

I'm just curious to hear anyone answer the question simply. I say the statement is of course false and a silly attempt to make someone faith alone have some substance and evidence to it without works.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Faith alone, can never not be alone, except it be with works.

In any case, I do want to commend you on separating yourself from OSAS hypocrisy in several important ways:
1. You do acknowledge Scripture teaching us we can ensure we never fall in sinning, by adding to our faith the things that accompany salvation in spiritual works first, and also in the flesh. (2 Peter 1)

2. You also acknowledge the truth of Scripture that only past sinning is forgiven, and if, not when, we do sin, then we must and can confess with godly sorrow to be forgiven by Jesus, even as when we first confessed unto forgiveness of all our past sinning. (Romans 3) (1 John 1-2)

The importance of acknowledge these two things, is that you continue in the fear of the Lord not to go on sinning, which OSAS casts away by declaring all men are sinners from cradle to grave, including Christians, who are not different than sinners when it comes to sinning in works of the flesh. The OSAS ones just declare themselves non-condemned while doing so. When they are not being justified by good works of faith, they continue to justify themselves during sinful works of the flesh.

Your OSAS errors however, I believe are in words only with you:

1. Your teaching of remaining perfect in God's sight while sinning with the devil is false of course, but you don't really believe that with the heart, else you would not be teaching the truth, that if we sin, we must confess such sinning unto forgiveness by Jesus.

If we are not condemned while sinning like the world, and are still judged righteous and perfect in His sight, then there is no condemnation nor need of forgiveness. And so, to try and confess such sinning with godly sorrow to be forgiven, would become unbelief and forbidden.

2. I also believe you're teaching salvation by faith alone without works, is in words only, and for you is nothing but a doctrinal distinction without a practical difference. You do believe and practice the truth of obtaining eternal salvation in the end by obeying Jesus, and not just by only believing He is the one true God, even as the devils also believe.

I have heard from righteous saints as yourself trying to teach some sort of initial salvation by faith alone, which must be followed with works of righteousness by faith, and condemn sinning in the flesh, even as Jesus did on earth. I just don't except there are two salvations, initially by faith alone, and then with works of faith. Since any and all faith alone is dead, especially when it comes to saving any man.

The error of initial faith alone without works, is in only seeing works as the natural man. The natural man does not see the spiritual things, but only the flesh, and so believes there must always be a certain temporal timeline between faith and works. However, in your teaching oabout faith and works, you need to consider the first works of our faith and fighting our spiritual warfare within. We must do these spiritual first works with Jesus' help, to resist the devil's temptations in our renewed mind of Christ, that we may not fall to temptation in the flesh.

I know you do these spiritual works within with Jesus, for your own soul sake, else you could not possibly believe you have power and assurance not to fall. Carnal OSAS believers won't even acknowledge cleansing our spirit first, much less agree anyone can cleanse the flesh thereby:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Well, I see we have a communication problem. You are taking much of what I said out of context, but I don't blame you, I blame myself for not properly explaining for you to understand.

So if you want to take this one step at a time and let me explain one at a time, I will be happy to do that.
 
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robert derrick

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Works are not of the same level as faith, works cannot save a man. Faith is what saves through God's Grace alone.
This is true, which is not the same as being saved by faith alone without works, which cannot save any man.

I understand why you're not able to answer the point of the thread, because you don't understand the convoluted minds of them that preach being saved by faith alone, and then claim that faith is not alone, which has nothing to do with being saved by faith in Jesus only, and not in the other gods of religions and nations.
 

robert derrick

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Well, I see we have a communication problem. You are taking much of what I said out of context, but I don't blame you, I blame myself for not properly explaining for you to understand.

So if you want to take this one step at a time and let me explain one at a time, I will be happy to do that.
No, you were clear enough, and I responded with exactly what I believe you are saying.

So, if you say I got much wrong, then you can pick any single point and correct it for me. Or you can do all of them at once. Thanks.
 

Charlie24

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This is true, which is not the same as being saved by faith alone without works, which cannot save any man.

I understand why you're not able to answer the point of the thread, because you don't understand the convoluted minds of them that preach being saved by faith alone, and then claim that faith is not alone, which has nothing to do with being saved by faith in Jesus only, and not in the other gods of religions and nations.

OK
 

Charlie24

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No, you were clear enough, and I responded with exactly what I believe you are saying.

So, if you say I got much wrong, then you can pick any single point and correct it for me. Or you can do all of them at once. Thanks.

No, I think enough is said.
 

robert derrick

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I tend to see it as Paul was coming at it from a different angle than James, not even sure if James completely understood Paul’s message.

Yes, it does make you wonder if James understood.

God writing in James did fully understand what God writes in Ephesians.

And here is why it is no use to try and instruct pompous and proud vain minds from Scripture. They think Scripture is all about what men think, so what they think is just as important, and even more so, as any words on paper.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

They become gods to themselves, thinking their own imaginations about the things of God are up to them to decide for themselves, which includes correcting an ignorant prophet or apostle. And God eagerly awaits their conclusions about their own salvation and justification, by their own great faith alone.

The prophets and apostles were just men of flesh and blood like themselves, writing from their own minds, and trying to figure each other out. And so they need fresh new flesh and blood to decide which one got it most write, and which ones just don't seem to get it.

And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

So if a prophet or apostle like James doesn't agree with them, then James must have got it wrong.

They add to Ephesians their own doctrine of faith alone, which Paul never says, and so they must take away from Christ's doctrine of faith with works, which James plainly says.

There is no confusion to them that believe all Scripture is from God, and the prophets and apostles was simply holy pens in the hands of the Lord, with no contradiction or misunderstandings from God, when writing Scripture in Exodus, Isaiah, Malachi, Matthew, Peter, Luke...

Paul preaches against the old Jewish works alone without faith, and James preaches against the new Christian faith alone without works.

It's all so much simpler and easier to know the truth of the doctrine of Christ, when you're not trying to sort out for yourself which prophet or apostle got it most right according to what we like to think, just to justify ourselves according to our own vain imagination.
 

Charlie24

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God writing in James did fully understand what God writes in Ephesians.

And here is why it is no use to try and instruct pompous and proud vain minds from Scripture. They think Scripture is all about what men think, so what they think is just as important, and even more so, as any words on paper.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

They become gods to themselves, thinking their own imaginations about the things of God are up to them to decide for themselves, which includes correcting an ignorant prophet or apostle. And God eagerly awaits their conclusions about their own salvation and justification, by their own great faith alone.

The prophets and apostles were just men of flesh and blood like themselves, writing from their own minds, and trying to figure each other out. And so they need fresh new flesh and blood to decide which one got it most write, and which ones just don't seem to get it.

And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

So if a prophet or apostle like James doesn't agree with them, then James must have got it wrong.

They add to Ephesians their own doctrine of faith alone, which Paul never says, and so they must take away from Christ's doctrine of faith with works, which James plainly says.

There is no confusion to them that believe all Scripture is from God, and the prophets and apostles was simply holy pens in the hands of the Lord, with no contradiction or misunderstandings from God, when writing Scripture in Exodus, Isaiah, Malachi, Matthew, Peter, Luke...

Paul preaches against the old Jewish works alone without faith, and James preaches against the new Christian faith alone without works.

It's all so much simpler and easier to know the truth of the doctrine of Christ, when you're not trying to sort out for yourself which prophet or apostle got it most right according to what we like to think, just to justify ourselves according to our own vain imagination.

Well I'm glad you have it all figured out now, Robert. I can go work on my tractor.
 

mailmandan

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No, I think enough is said.
You can say all you want to works-salvationists/unbelievers but they will continuously fail to grasp what is being said and there is a reason for that. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Man is saved through faith (that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation) and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) That's not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists/unbelievers to accept.
 
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robert derrick

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Well I'm glad you have it all figured out now, Robert. I can go work on my tractor.
I have you figured out. You wonder if God got it right in one place of Scripture, because you've changed the words of Scripture elsewhere.

And when you say others get you wrong, you have nothing to say about how. Like all Christians when trying to teach something of OSAS, you get upset when all your fluff is stripped to the bone, and you bail.

No Christian can teach any part of OSAS and retain integrity for long. Especially some puffed up peacock, that thinks maybe James wasn't quite up to snuff, when he got around to chapter 2.

Any doubting of Scripture as written, is just a carnal mind that refuses correction of the truth. Open unbelievers that reject the Bible is the written word of God, are more honest about it.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
 

Charlie24

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You can say all you want to works-salvationists/unbelievers but they will continuously fail to grasp what is being said and there is a reason for that. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Man is saved through faith (that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation) and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; phesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

t is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) That's not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists/unbelievers to accept.

That's right! There is something about works that satisfies man's inner being that he has done something to earn his salvation.

They can't rely fully on Christ and it will be the biggest mistake of their lives!

But as you said, there is nothing we can do. they simply will not accept it!
 
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mailmandan

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That's right! There is something about works that satisfies man's inner being that he has done something to earn his salvation.

They can't rely fully on Christ and it will be the biggest mistake of their lives!

But as you said, there is nothing we can do. they simply will not accept it!
Amen and well said! Such people have an issue with PRIDE.
 

Earburner

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Amen, an honest question on an OSAS thread. I always appreciate an honest opportunity to explain the stuff I teach from Scripture.

First just a little tweak. It's faith with works, not faith + works. Faith + works is false accusation of OSAS liars, which is not the same as faith with works, that must always accompany salvation. They deride faith with works, by calling it God's faith plus adding our own righteousness to it.

This is of course just another lie against the truth, that we are to add to our faith works of God's righteousness, that our faith will never be alone, dead, and unfruitful. And so, OSAS accusers once again find themselves deriding Scripture as well.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


We see here how God's saving faith can never be alone, because it is accompanied immediately with the spiritual works of faith, that we are exhorted to do within our heart and mind. Jesus calls these the first works of our first love of God:

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.


The first works of faith we do, is the spiritual warfare we must fight within, to keep the faith pure in heart, and our minds clean from tempting thoughts from the wicked.

And that warfare with first works of faith must begin instantly upon receiving the faith, because the devil immediately comes to take it away from within our hearts:

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

And so, whether in the prime of life, or on a death bed, or in a foxhole, or on a cross, like Jesus did unto the end, we must all be doing the first works of faith to keep ourselves spiritually pure and free from unrighteous thoughts, that we may do so outwardly, however much time remains for us on earth, and tomorrow is neve promised.

Waiting and watching patiently for Him with good works, begins first within our platter, doing them whensoever necessary against unrighteous tempting thoughts.

The perfect peace of a mind stayed on Christ is kept by divine power to overcome the wicked every time he shows up with imagination for doubting God and His written word, and imagination for sinning against Him through lust.
OK, it is apparent that you are overly concerned about sin, which in your mind is "bad works" being opposed to "good works". However, in all actuality, there is no "grey area", whereby we can "straddle the fence" and achieve victory over our flesh through self will. It shall always fail.

John 6[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 14[21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Do you know the difference between that of being
sin-free and being sin-less?
1. Our attempting to be sin-free, is the work of the flesh, of which is never good enough.
2. Our accepting of Jesus, that we shall be made sin-less, is the work of His Holy Spirit, through faith in the Grace of God.

What if, in the Day of Jesus' Glorious return, your "bad works" (by sin) out weigh your "good works" (by faith), will you be saved?
1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
The answer is YES: "by grace are ye saved".
Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Having faith in Jesus to save you, makes you to be "perfect" in the eyes of God the Father.
Your sins will be remembered no more by God.
Why?

Colossians 3[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 
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robert derrick

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OK, it is apparent that you are overly concerned about sin, which in your mind is "bad works" being opposed to "good works". However, in all actuality, there is no "grey area", whereby we can "straddle the fence" and achieve victory over our flesh through self will. It shall always fail.

Standard OSAS play of accusing those doing righteousness with a pure heart, of being the self-righteous without inner faith.

Do you know the difference between that of being sin-free and being sin-less?

Sin free is forgiven of all past sinning with the devil. Sinless is not sinning with the devil.

1. Our attempting to be sin-free, is the work of the flesh, of which is never good enough.

True. Anything done without spiritual purity of faith is filthiness of the spirit and flesh, and is never good enough for God. Pharisees attempt it by works of the law, Saints do it by the faith of Jesus, and OSAS claims it by dead faith alone.

2. Our accepting of Jesus, that we shall be made sin-less, is the work of His Holy Spirit, through faith in the Grace of God.

True. It's called confession unto repentance, and being forgiven of all past sinning. A new beginning of the born again son of God.

What if, in the Day of Jesus' Glorious return, your "bad works" (by sin) out weigh your "good works" (by faith), will you be saved.

OSAS teaches this double heartedness for life, where Christians are made into progressive humanists seeking to become more neighborly sinners, while now doing more good than evil, rather than more evil than good as before.

They would be banking on not dying while sinning, which is possible, except they teach they are not condemned for sinning anyway. This makes it more likely they will die in their sinning, due to a seared conscience from the fear of the Lord.

The righteous saints simply obey God and repent to sin no more and stop playing with unrighteous works of the flesh altogether.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

They no more need worry about being found transgressors, since they know the righteousness they do in Christ today, and need not change back to doing unrighteousness tomorrow.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.


OSAS is simply delusional doctrine for Christians that are still sinners at heart, who want to dress themselves in Adam and Eve's old fig leaves, while refusing to repent. Adam blamed it on Eve, Eve blamed it on the serpent, and now OSAS sinners blame it on their bodies. You see how delusion gets worse and worse over time? Even Adam and Eve didn't try to blame their bodies for sinning against the Lord.

Having faith in Jesus to save you, makes you to be "perfect" in the eyes of God the Father.

There nothing perfect, good, nor righteous about anyone sinning with the devil, neither in the spirit nor in the flesh.

Unless your God is the blind god of this world that loves all sinning, even while destroying his sinners.

Your sins will be remembered no more by God.

All our past sinning is remembered no more, when we confess unto repentance to be forgiven of Jesus, and all our past righteousness will be remembered no more, if we turn from doing right and sin with the devil.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


No man while doing righteousness of Christ can be a child of the devil, and no man while sinning with the devil can be a son of God.

Colossians 3[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

If ye are sinning, and ye think ye are hid from righteous judgement of God, then your christ is a blind idol, who can't see you sinning with the world, while the world can see you, and knows your sinning stinks just as much as theirs, no matter how many grace petals you cover it with.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

The true Christ and God is not an unrighteous judge and respecter of persons and blind to sins of some, with eyes wide open to the same sins of others.
 

Always Believing

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"There is no such thing as faith alone. It is a misnomer used by workers for salvation to support their works based theology. We are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH alone. But faith is never alone."

This is just classic sophistry, but it works.

First, there is such a thing as believers in faith alone, because they are rebuked by Scripture in James 2.

However, now we have a faith alone believer trying to redefine faith alone that saves, as faith that is never indeed alone.

Since saving and justifying faith is now declared never alone, then what does Scripture say makes faith unalone?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

God says only works makes faith not to be alone and dead, so that the only faith alone that can save and justify a man, is only that faith that has works and so is not alone: we are thus saved only by that faith with works, that is never alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Not only are we saved by faith with works, not being indeed alone, but we are only justified by continuing in that faith that always has works, and is never alone.

Therefore, the truth of Ephesians 2:8 is:

For by grace are ye saved only through that faith that is with works, not being alone and dead.

So long as the good works are seen by God and man, then so does that faith with good works save and justify any man. Until faith has works, it is unsaving faith that is indeed alone.
What about salvation itself. If we are saved by faith alone, then we have faith with salvation but not yet with works. It's the same with having a new spirit and mind and love first before having a chance to do anything about it. When we sign the papers and say the pledge and enlist in the army, then we are just as much soldiers responsible to the UCMJ as any other soldier, but we haven't done any soldiering yet. I understand your point about the Bible not saying anything good about faith being alone and not having works with it, but there has to be faith first before there can be any works. I also know the literal contradiction of claiming to have faith alone that is never alone, so I would call it first first and not alone, since the Bible says faith alone is dead and cannot save a man.
 

Earburner

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Standard OSAS play of accusing those doing righteousness with a pure heart, of being the self-righteous without inner faith.



Sin free is forgiven of all past sinning with the devil. Sinless is not sinning with the devil.



True. Anything done without spiritual purity of faith is filthiness of the spirit and flesh, and is never good enough for God. Pharisees attempt it by works of the law, Saints do it by the faith of Jesus, and OSAS claims it by dead faith alone.



True. It's called confession unto repentance, and being forgiven of all past sinning. A new beginning of the born again son of God.



OSAS teaches this double heartedness for life, where Christians are made into progressive humanists seeking to become more neighborly sinners, while now doing more good than evil, rather than more evil than good as before.

They would be banking on not dying while sinning, which is possible, except they teach they are not condemned for sinning anyway. This makes it more likely they will die in their sinning, due to a seared conscience from the fear of the Lord.

The righteous saints simply obey God and repent to sin no more and stop playing with unrighteous works of the flesh altogether.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

They no more need worry about being found transgressors, since they know the righteousness they do in Christ today, and need not change back to doing unrighteousness tomorrow.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.


OSAS is simply delusional doctrine for Christians that are still sinners at heart, who want to dress themselves in Adam and Eve's old fig leaves, while refusing to repent. Adam blamed it on Eve, Eve blamed it on the serpent, and now OSAS sinners blame it on their bodies. You see how delusion gets worse and worse over time? Even Adam and Eve didn't try to blame their bodies for sinning against the Lord.



There nothing perfect, good, nor righteous about anyone sinning with the devil, neither in the spirit nor in the flesh.

Unless your God is the blind god of this world that loves all sinning, even while destroying his sinners.



All our past sinning is remembered no more, when we confess unto repentance to be forgiven of Jesus, and all our past righteousness will be remembered no more, if we turn from doing right and sin with the devil.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


No man while doing righteousness of Christ can be a child of the devil, and no man while sinning with the devil can be a son of God.



If ye are sinning, and ye think ye are hid from righteous judgement of God, then your christ is a blind idol, who can't see you sinning with the world, while the world can see you, and knows your sinning stinks just as much as theirs, no matter how many grace petals you cover it with.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

The true Christ and God is not an unrighteous judge and respecter of persons and blind to sins of some, with eyes wide open to the same sins of others.
So to be blunt, you can read the words of KJV John 3:18, but you don't know what is being said.
 
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