OSAS is now teaching faith with works, and not faith alone.

[robert derrick]

Now OSAS believers are saying they have never preached salvation by faith alone without works. Incredible. And yet they will not preach the gospel of salvation by faith with works.

It's like the communists trying to erase history with a new policy every 5 years.

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

They can try and hide their old gospel of saved by faith alone without works, but it's a pretty silly way of doing it, by saying that their new gospel of faith alone, is never alone.

What they are trying to shine now, makes even less sense than before.

Their new dressed up version now says:
1. They are not sinners, though they still do unrighteous works of the flesh.
2. They are not condemned as sinners, while they are doing unrighteous works of the flesh.
3. They are saved by faith alone, that is never alone, but just without works.
4. They do not preach salvation by faith alone without works, nor do they preach salvation by faith with works.
5. They are preforgiven of all there sins, but they still have conviction when sinning, though without confessing it for forgiveness, which they already have.

At least in the OSAS gospel of old, it was wrong, but not crazy wrong. Their old gospel they try to now hide, at least was consistent and made some sense: we're all sinners from cradle to grave, but if we believe in the cross, then we're unconditionally saved forever, so long as we keeping believing it, while sinning unto the grave.

That at least made sense. It was unconscionable, but at least sensical. This new self-contradicting version doesn't even appear to be written by someone that is conscious, when they write it.

 

[robert derrick]

I'm still waiting to see just how OSAS' newfound saving faith alone is never alone, and yet still not with works.

 

[Charlie24]

"There is no such thing as faith alone. It is a misnomer used by workers for salvation to support their works based theology. We are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH alone. But faith is never alone."

This is just classic sophistry, but it works.

First, there is such a thing as believers in faith alone, because they are rebuked by Scripture in James 2.

However, now we have a faith alone believer trying to redefine faith alone that saves, as faith that is never indeed alone.

Since saving and justifying faith is now declared never alone, then what does Scripture say makes faith unalone?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

God says only works makes faith not to be alone and dead, so that the only faith alone that can save and justify a man, is only that faith that has works and so is not alone: we are thus saved only by that faith with works, that is never alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Not only are we saved by faith with works, not being indeed alone, but we are only justified by continuing in that faith that always has works, and is never alone.

Therefore, the truth of Ephesians 2:8 is:

For by grace are ye saved only through that faith that is with works, not being alone and dead.

So long as the good works are seen by God and man, then so does that faith with good works save and justify any man. Until faith has works, it is unsaving faith that is indeed alone.

Robert, your fixation on this subject is amazing. It's one thread after another of the same.

Hopefully one day you will realize that faith accompanied by works doesn't not mean faith+works saves us.

Does not the Scripture say that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness? It doesn't say anything about the works of Abraham saving him.

Even James said that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Then James tells us, show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Some of us just can't see what this means! James is saying that works prove your faith, with works you have an active faith.

This is what he means by, "I will show you my faith by my works."

Justification is by believing, just as James said about Abraham. James is pointing to faith as the justifier backed up with proof of works. This is what completes your faith, it's not a dead faith as James said.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert, your fixation on this subject is amazing. It's one thread after another of the same.

I only keep returning to it from different angles, as OSAS believers keep coming up with different twisted angles to it, as we see here. So it's not the same thing each time.

And so, I'm still waiting for them to explain their latest and greatest, by showing exactly how their newfound saving faith alone, is not really alone. If not with works as James 2:17 says, then how? James 2:14 & 17 together teach that saving faith must be with works, so that it is never alone.

Hopefully one day you will realize that faith accompanied by works doesn't not mean faith+works saves us.

You imply you read my stuff, but obviously you don't know what I say. I started a thread long ago to challenge faith alone salvation, with the teaching of saving faith cannot be alone without works, because Scripture teaches that faith must always be accompanied with works: As James 2 says, saving faith is always with works, else it is alone and dead without works.

That is when the OSAS commandoes really began to howl, when their prized nose jewel of faith alone salvation was yanked.

So, what do you say? Are we saved by faith alone, that is not really alone, or are we simply saved by faith with works, which are the righteous works that accompany all faith of God, and so justifies is with Christ?

Or, are you an OSAS believer?

 

[Nancy]

"There is no such thing as faith alone. It is a misnomer used by workers for salvation to support their works based theology. We are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH alone. But faith is never alone."

This is just classic sophistry, but it works.

First, there is such a thing as believers in faith alone, because they are rebuked by Scripture in James 2.

However, now we have a faith alone believer trying to redefine faith alone that saves, as faith that is never indeed alone.

Since saving and justifying faith is now declared never alone, then what does Scripture say makes faith unalone?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

God says only works makes faith not to be alone and dead, so that the only faith alone that can save and justify a man, is only that faith that has works and so is not alone: we are thus saved only by that faith with works, that is never alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Not only are we saved by faith with works, not being indeed alone, but we are only justified by continuing in that faith that always has works, and is never alone.

Therefore, the truth of Ephesians 2:8 is:

For by grace are ye saved only through that faith that is with works, not being alone and dead.

So long as the good works are seen by God and man, then so does that faith with good works save and justify any man. Until faith has works, it is unsaving faith that is indeed alone.

Hello Robert,
Faith plus works I do understand. Yet where does that leave the thief on the cross and many who are on their death beds and reach out to Jesus, repent and believe? Perhaps they might have a spouse who is saved and God brings back to their memory all the seeds the saved spouse planted.
My dad was saved in a hospital bed about a year before passing. He was anointed with oil from the elders from my mom's church and he cried! NEVER had I seen him cry! Anyhow, seems some slip through the cracks...?

 

[Charlie24]

I only keep returning to it from different angles, as OSAS believers keep coming up with different twisted angles to it, as we see here. So it's not the same thing each time.

And so, I'm still waiting for them to explain their latest and greatest, by showing exactly how their newfound saving faith alone, is not really alone. If not with works as James 2:17 says, then how? James 2:14 & 17 together teach that saving faith must be with works, so that it is never alone.



You imply you read my stuff, but obviously you don't know what I say. I started a thread long ago to challenge faith alone salvation, with the teaching of saving faith cannot be alone without works, because Scripture teaches that faith must always be accompanied with works: As James 2 says, saving faith is always with works, else it is alone and dead without works.

That is when the OSAS commandoes really began to howl, when their prized nose jewel of faith alone salvation was yanked.

So, what do you say? Are we saved by faith alone, that is not really alone, or are we simply saved by faith with works, which are the righteous works that accompany all faith of God, and so justifies is with Christ?

Or, are you an OSAS believer?

I am not a OSAS believer, but I have no problem with it!

However I am a faith alone believer.

Show us an example of someone being saved in Scripture by faith+works!

I will show you dozens of examples where they were saved by faith alone!

Beginning with Abraham!

When you come to the knowledge that works accompany faith to make it complete, and not in the form of faith+works = salvation, you will understand the preaching of Paul.

"For you are saved by grace through faith, and not of yourselves, not of works, lest any should boast."

 

[robert derrick]

Hello Robert,
Faith plus works I do understand. Yet where does that leave the thief on the cross and many who are on their death beds and reach out to Jesus, repent and believe? Perhaps they might have a spouse who is saved and God brings back to their memory all the seeds the saved spouse planted.
My dad was saved in a hospital bed about a year before passing. He was anointed with oil from the elders from my mom's church and he cried! NEVER had I seen him cry! Anyhow, seems some slip through the cracks...?

Amen, an honest question on an OSAS thread. I always appreciate an honest opportunity to explain the stuff I teach from Scripture.

First just a little tweak. It's faith with works, not faith + works. Faith + works is false accusation of OSAS liars, which is not the same as faith with works, that must always accompany salvation. They deride faith with works, by calling it God's faith plus adding our own righteousness to it.

This is of course just another lie against the truth, that we are to add to our faith works of God's righteousness, that our faith will never be alone, dead, and unfruitful. And so, OSAS accusers once again find themselves deriding Scripture as well.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

We see here how God's saving faith can never be alone, because it is accompanied immediately with the spiritual works of faith, that we are exhorted to do within our heart and mind. Jesus calls these the first works of our first love of God:

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

The first works of faith we do, is the spiritual warfare we must fight within, to keep the faith pure in heart, and our minds clean from tempting thoughts from the wicked.

And that warfare with first works of faith must begin instantly upon receiving the faith, because the devil immediately comes to take it away from within our hearts:

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

And so, whether in the prime of life, or on a death bed, or in a foxhole, or on a cross, like Jesus did unto the end, we must all be doing the first works of faith to keep ourselves spiritually pure and free from unrighteous thoughts, that we may do so outwardly, however much time remains for us on earth, and tomorrow is neve promised.

Waiting and watching patiently for Him with good works, begins first within our platter, doing them whensoever necessary against unrighteous tempting thoughts.

The perfect peace of a mind stayed on Christ is kept by divine power to overcome the wicked every time he shows up with imagination for doubting God and His written word, and imagination for sinning against Him through lust.

 

[robert derrick]

However I am a faith alone believer.

Ok, then maybe you can answer the question of the thread.

Do you believe the current OSAS teaching, that their saving faith alone, is never alone? That you are saved by faith alone, because your faith is never alone?

If so, then how can any faith be not alone, if not with works according to the Scripture?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, then maybe you can answer the question of the thread.

Do you believe the current OSAS teaching, that their saving faith alone, is never alone? That you are saved by faith alone, because your faith is never alone?

If so, then how can any faith be not alone, if not with works according to the Scripture?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

OK, let's break this down using myself as an example.

My faith is 100% in nothing but the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for my salvation.

That is what saved me the very instant I believed in that!

If I just rest on that fact alone and do nothing else, I am still saved, but, my faith is dead in works.

If I do the works that Jesus laid out for me, then my faith is a working faith that proves my salvation.

Now let's go to Paul for the foundation of what I just said!

1 Cor. 3:13-15
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Man can enter into the Kingdom of God without any works whatsoever!

A man's works, whatever they are, can be burned in the test of proper motivation. Did you do these works for the proper reason according to the plan of God?

Paul plainly states these works can be burned up, no longer existing, but it is your faith, and your faith alone that grants you entrance into His Kingdom.

 

[dev553344]

Hello Robert,
Faith plus works I do understand. Yet where does that leave the thief on the cross and many who are on their death beds and reach out to Jesus, repent and believe? Perhaps they might have a spouse who is saved and God brings back to their memory all the seeds the saved spouse planted.
My dad was saved in a hospital bed about a year before passing. He was anointed with oil from the elders from my mom's church and he cried! NEVER had I seen him cry! Anyhow, seems some slip through the cracks...?

Hi Nancy. Sorry to hear about your Father. He accepted Jesus before he died which is nice. Blessings to you and him.

As I contemplate the thief on the cross I am reminded of the judicial system in place and the authority that ruled the land at that time. We know nothing about that so called thief. The bible doesn't explain what kind of life he lived. I mean they crucified Jesus for performing healings and miracles. So I think assuming he in fact was a thief or that he didn't deserve salvation is a bit assuming. Perhaps his life was that of a good person? I have my doubts that he was some kind of villain. I believe they crucified Jesus for being a blasphemer in their minds.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy. Sorry to hear about your Father. He accepted Jesus before he died which is nice. Blessings to you and him.

As I contemplate the thief on the cross I am reminded of the judicial system in place and the authority that ruled the land at that time. We know nothing about that so called thief. The bible doesn't explain what kind of life he lived. I mean they crucified Jesus for performing healings and miracles. So I think assuming he in fact was a thief or that he didn't deserve salvation is a bit assuming. Perhaps his life was that of a good person? I have my doubts that he was some kind of villain. I believe they crucified Jesus for being a blasphemer in their minds.

Thanks Devin, my parents have been gone since August of 1990. They loved the Lord and I know who they are with right now, praise God!

Just about all we really know is that two "robbers" or "criminals" were crucified with Him–one on the right and one on the left (Matt. 27:38; Mark 15:27; cf. Luke 23:32-33).


One of the condemned seemed to repent while on the cross, recognizing his sin and need of a savior.
"Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong" (Luke 23:40-41).

He recognized and accepted his just punishment.

 

[Nancy]

Amen, an honest question on an OSAS thread. I always appreciate an honest opportunity to explain the stuff I teach from Scripture.

First just a little tweak. It's faith with works, not faith + works. Faith + works is false accusation of OSAS liars, which is not the same as faith with works, that must always accompany salvation. They deride faith with works, by calling it God's faith plus adding our own righteousness to it.

This is of course just another lie against the truth, that we are to add to our faith works of God's righteousness, that our faith will never be alone, dead, and unfruitful. And so, OSAS accusers once again find themselves deriding Scripture as well.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

We see here how God's saving faith can never be alone, because it is accompanied immediately with the spiritual works of faith, that we are exhorted to do within our heart and mind. Jesus calls these the first works of our first love of God:

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

The first works of faith we do, is the spiritual warfare we must fight within, to keep the faith pure in heart, and our minds clean from tempting thoughts from the wicked.

And that warfare with first works of faith must begin instantly upon receiving the faith, because the devil immediately comes to take it away from within our hearts:

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

And so, whether in the prime of life, or on a death bed, or in a foxhole, or on a cross, like Jesus did unto the end, we must all be doing the first works of faith to keep ourselves spiritually pure and free from unrighteous thoughts, that we may do so outwardly, however much time remains for us on earth, and tomorrow is neve promised.

Waiting and watching patiently for Him with good works, begins first within our platter, doing them whensoever necessary against unrighteous tempting thoughts.

The perfect peace of a mind stayed on Christ is kept by divine power to overcome the wicked every time he shows up with imagination for doubting God and His written word, and imagination for sinning against Him through lust.

So sorry, I was totally off topic, lol! Not a new thing

 

[dev553344]

Thanks Devin, my parents have been gone since August of 1990. They loved the Lord and I know who they are with right now, praise God!

Just about all we really know is that two "robbers" or "criminals" were crucified with Him–one on the right and one on the left (Matt. 27:38; Mark 15:27; cf. Luke 23:32-33).


One of the condemned seemed to repent while on the cross, recognizing his sin and need of a savior.
"Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong" (Luke 23:40-41).

He recognized and accepted his just punishment.

Good point, thanks for bringing that up. That helps.

I like the fact that he admitted to being a sinner and in need of repentance. This reminds me of the parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee. The Tax Collector would not look to heaven but just said, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner". And I feel that is the spirit I should have as well. I know I sin in relation to living a perfect life like Christ achieved.

 

[Jack]

I'm so glad that God can sort this mess out!

 

[Nancy]

Good point, thanks for bringing that up. That helps.

I like the fact that he admitted to being a sinner and in need of repentance. This reminds me of the parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee. The Tax Collector would not look to heaven but just said, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner". And I feel that is the spirit I should have as well. I know I sin in relation to living a perfect life like Christ achieved.

"I like the fact that he admitted to being a sinner and in need of repentance."
Amen, and I think of "Repent" being the first words out of John the Baptist's mouth...

 

[robert derrick]

My faith is 100% in nothing but the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for my salvation.

This is the truth of believing in Jesus only as the true God, and not the gods of other religions and nations. This is not the same as being saved by Jesus through faith alone without works. Otherwise, James would never have rebuked it.

He acknowledged that they believe in the one true God only, but he rebuked them for thinking that believing that alone can save any man.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works works is dead?

And so, our faith in Jesus only is not in question, but how we go about living that faith to be justified by Christ.

If I just rest on that fact alone and do nothing else, I am still saved, but, my faith is dead in works.

The question is, that while you trust in faith alone to be saved, and not doing any good at the time, does that also include while doing evil works of the flesh?

Do you agree with the OSAS version of no condemnation, in that we are not condemned with the world by faith alone, even while sinning like the world?

 

[Daydreamer]

I will show you dozens of examples where they were saved by faith alone!

Beginning with Abraham!

Have to agree. If anyone went to any church I've ever been to and passed their wife off as their sister, and let her be taken into another man's home, be showered with gifts because of it as the man wanted to marry her, he'd be thrown out of the church

 

[Charlie24]

This is the truth of believing in Jesus only as the true God, and not the gods of other religions and nations. This is not the same as being saved by Jesus through faith alone without works. Otherwise, James would never have rebuked it.

He acknowledged that they believe in the one true God only, but he rebuked them for thinking that believing that alone can save any man.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works works is dead?

And so, our faith in Jesus only is not in question, but how we go about living that faith to be justified by Christ.



The question is, that while you trust in faith alone to be saved, and not doing any good at the time, does that also include while doing evil works of the flesh?

Do you agree with the OSAS version of no condemnation, in that we are not condemned with the world by faith alone, even while sinning like the world?

John told us that Christ is the satisfaction for ours sins, He is our Advocate. Our sin will not keep us out of His kingdom.

God has a remedy for His disobedient children, a good ol' fashion whooping! Does not the Scripture say that God chastises those who are His?

This brings me to why I disagree with my OSAS friends. If the correction of God does not turn the child, only God knows when that person is cut off! They are not cut off for sin, they are cut off for unbelief, as were His children were cut off in the desert under Moses.

God strived with them, begged them, kept them in the wilderness 40 years to convert them, but they said no, we will not obey. They were cut off. These are the same people of God who believed God and placed the Blood over the door posts, and when the angel of death came, he passed over them. The Blood of the animals represented faith in the coming Messiah, that is what saved them.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, or the argument they present, these people who were saved, lost that salvation and perished in the desert without making it to the promised land. A picture of losing salvation.

I don't argue this and will not argue it, they are my Brothers and Sisters and I have no problem with their beliefs.

 

[Daydreamer]

They are not cut off for sin, they are cut off for unbelief

.

That's the second time I've seen that written. A man I much respected on another website said much the same thing
''Sin will not keep you out of heaven but losing your faith will''
That made me think hard. I came to believe his viewpoint to be correct

 

[Charlie24]

That's the second time I've seen that written. A man I much respected on another website said much the same thing
''Sin will not keep you out of heaven but losing your faith will''
That made me think hard. I came to believe his viewpoint to be correct

I'm pretty sure that man can backup what he said from Scripture!