OSAS...Saved Forever.
What is this utter hatred of Being Saved Forever?
What is this utter hatred of Being Saved Forever?
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Fear and bondage to IN-security is no way to live the Christian life.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Fear and bondage to IN-security is no way to live the Christian life.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
There are those today that have the same mind as the Pharisees...who have taken up a mere slice of the scriptures as a sword hindering those who are entering in--to their own shame.
God is not mocked.
This is the result of the church fathers "not expecting" those "things which must shortly take place" as "coming soon." This is the "lie" that has caused "strong delusion" in the hands of those most militant. Jesus said "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." Matthew 24:44 And when they did not see what they expected, they began the lie that has now resulted in this debate.
In other words, if the church fathers would have believed Jesus and then Paul breaking it down for them as "each in his own order"...they would have known that the order of men begins and ends in their own time, which for every man in every evil generation, comes "soon"--and this is what both Jesus and Paul meant. Jesus even clarified, saying "this evil generation"--as if there were any other kind! But they did not perceive all that He said, because, being in the flesh they expected Jesus to return in the flesh--which He had already done and had finished, laying it down, and giving His body over to the church, saying "take, eat, this is My body." Which was according to Jesus' instructions to "follow"--meaning...lay down your flesh and rise in the Spirit. At which point sin is dead, and all that remains is Christ, who bearing the sins of the world has and does show the marks which are now the condemnation of those who wrongly accuse those who have died to sin and live to God in Christ. And this was the nature of His warning, saying "when you did it to one of these little ones, you did it to Me."
Still, God is not mocked.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Satan hates this fact. He hates the fact that God saves sinners purely by His grace and based upon the sole merits of Christ and His finished work of redemption. So Satan has his minions constantly attacking the eternal security of the believer.
It’s a strange thing for a man to claim he is saved, but then lash out in hatred against men who claim the same adding Forever.
Tells me they do not Trust the Power of God.
Love that...”not a revolving door”!!
Strange to preach, “YES, they are Baptized in the Holy Spirit”...
BUT...uh, “They have to figure out HOW to keep their Salvation”.
Sort of...makes the Power of God (Christ IN them) irrelevant; IF they even ARE Saved.
A Pharisee's heart.
Agree.
“If ones OUTSIDE appears right to others, the INSIDE is hidden, and matters not”.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
The ones who claim the most holiness seem to also be prone to lashing out and anger. Pride is a terrible thing! It hurts the holder horribly!
Much love!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.
It's about saying your saved. It is only God's authority and power to save someone.
We are saved when we are resurrected, cleansed with the blood of Christ (which happens after we die and are resurrected), brought into heaven and given eternal life. Before these things happen we are not "saved".
We are warned about the spawning of religion that appeals to the ears.
2 Timothy 4:1-4
King James Version
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You left out the first resurrection. Revelation 20:6
Which...I gotta say, is a pattern of those who argue against the finality of salvation--I mean, leaving things out. Kinda blows your whole "sound doctrine" assertion.
For each person there is one resurrection. What you're referring to does not apply to the idea. Some will be resurrected to shame. They are not saved.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
So...let's clarify your position.
You said, salvation comes when we "die"...but you didn't clarify whether you meant to include those who die to self, and whether or not they still have to wait until the death of the flesh.
How would you break that down?
The concept I provided gives God the Glory of salvation. It does not allow people to proclaim their own judgment and salvation. There are two resurrections I've been made aware of. And that is all we know. It really has nothing to do with what I said, the fact that Christ will resurrect at two different times. I would imagine the elect are resurrected the first time. Those who did the will of the Father.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Okay, so then you are vague on that point--that being the point of the first resurrection.
The scriptures, by many passages clarify that like the thief on the cross, the granting of salvation is given with just two conditions: Believe and die. Period.
The apostle Paul then elaborates to say that for those "who are alive and remain", ie, "to live is Christ", is a matter of being "raised (past tense) with Christ" joining Christ the firstfruts in His resurrection and salvation at the time of being born again of the spirit of God. Which he referred to as "death to self." Confirmed in Revelation by Jesus, saying "Over such the second death has no power..." As He also did in the gospels, saying, "“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24 Again, past tense.
Interesting, I would have to ignore the many warnings about losing salvation and what happens to those who do not do the will that Jesus proclaimed in Matthew 25:31-46 "sheep and goats".
In fact Hebrews 6 specifically instructs members of the church to bring them that have fallen away back to repentance and obeying the word of Jesus:
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes...and I do not dispute those passages. Except to say that this was why Paul indicated that it was necessary to "rightly divide the word of truth" between what was preached to Israel proper, and that which was meant specifically for the gentiles. It is such a context dividing line that Christ at first even denied the gentiles, saying, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Notice also that the other verses that you quoted were to the Hebrews (Israel).
Of course both houses come together in Christ--but not before, and what was preached to one was not for the other, and vice versa. Rightly dividing the world of truth, is the only biblical way to arrive at the actual truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
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