OSAS Question

[theefaith]

It can’t be both. Paul said it has to be one or the other

Romans 11:6 (NKJV): And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But

As for James, it does Not contradict romans 4. Your interpretation is also flawed

the Bible God’s word says both

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Gospels aren't for Christians? Darn, I was counting on John 3:16.

Parts of the gospels are but parts aren't. Remember that until the events of Matt. 12 Jesus was announcing the Kingdom to Israel! But thanks for blowing up reality way out of proportion.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's interesting that OSASers can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit nor forsake Jesus. What a convenient doctrine!

Mark 3:29 (NKJV)
29 He who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"--

Oh yeah, they don't need good works either.

James 2:20 (NKJV)
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Once again taking verses and misapplying them. If Hebrews is true:

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Even if we try to walk away from the Lord, He will not walk away from us! Stop trying to make you partly responsible for your salvation and rejoice that you are loved with a love that goes beyond knowledge! You are trying to think of ways that Gods love for you will end (or end for some believer), BUT BUT BUT :

Psalm 136:1-3
King James Version

136 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Lamentations 3:22-23
King James Version

22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I believe you are so concerned with context, that you have overshot the point. In Mark 3:28 It says: 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

You will notice that Jesus is talking about all the sons of men, not just Israelites.

Then in Mark 3:29 it says: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Jesus now says "he" who blasphemes against the HG hath never forgiveness. I believe the "he" is any man, not just Israelites. At least any man that believes in the Lord. Since most of the Jews did not believe, I'm not sure they were who he was talking too.

Context matters supremely in the spoken and written word.

YOu can believe what you wish to, but that don't make it right. taking a verse out of context makes it a pretext!

If you want I can take things out of their context, and cut and paste words from you saying you believe homosexuality is perfectly acceptable.

Prove that "he" applies to both Jew and gentile, believer and non-believer in every generation since Jesus named this sin!

But I rely on the bible which defines the act of the sin as saying the pharisees said He had an unclean spirit. There sin personally was not forgiven and the judgment against the nation was not forgiven.

The pharisees will not end up in the lake of fire for the sin of blasphemy against the Spirit, but because they rejected Jesus as Messiah!

 

[theefaith]

Parts of the gospels are but parts aren't. Remember that until the events of Matt. 12 Jesus was announcing the Kingdom to Israel! But thanks for blowing up reality way out of proportion.

what planet is He from?

All!
Everyone!
Whosoever!
The whole world!
Universal or catholic!
Lk 2:10-11 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

One God!
One Christ!
One savior!
One church!
There is only one mediator and only one covenant!

All! All! All!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[kcnalp]

Christians "whose end is to be burned".

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

what planet is He from?

All!
Everyone!
Whosoever!
The whole world!
Universal or catholic!
Lk 2:10-11 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

One God!
One Christ!
One savior!
One church!
There is only one mediator and only one covenant!

All! All! All!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

so then you believe you must follow anything a modern Jewish pharisee commands?????

Matthew 23:1-3
King James Version

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


Okay then, now we know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the Bible God’s word says both

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

once again

Romans 11:6 (NKJV): And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It can not be both, It can only be one or the other.

So no matter what you post. If it says it is grace plus works. It can not be talking about true justification/salvation.

 

[theefaith]

Christians "whose end is to be burned".

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

that’s apostasy

 

[kcnalp]

that’s apostasy

Yeah, Christians who will be burned. Former Christians anyway.

 

[theefaith]

so then you believe you must follow anything a modern Jewish pharisee commands?????

Matthew 23:1-3
King James Version

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


Okay then, now we know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no but no ndd red else is to either
Matt 21:43 kingdom taken from them and given to the church who bears fruit Jn 15:1-5
Matt 16:18 18:18 keys and power to bind given to Peter and the apostles

 

[theefaith]

once again

Romans 11:6 (NKJV): And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It can not be both, It can only be one or the other.

So no matter what you post. If it says it is grace plus works. It can not be talking about true justification/salvation.

refers to redemption accomplished by Christ alone not justification or salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

refers to redemption accomplished by Christ alone not justification or salvation

Actually referes to salvation which is justification.

justification is where God declaired us innocent of wrongdoing, or redeemed, hence we are declaired righteous

it’s not my righteousness, it’s God, just like Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness. That is justification my friend

 

[theefaith]

Actually referes to salvation which is justification.

justification is where God declaired us innocent of wrongdoing, or redeemed, hence we are declaired righteous

it’s not my righteousness, it’s God, just like Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness. That is justification my friend

Christ the lamb of God died and shed his blood that accomplished the redemption of all mankind

Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by that obedience of that one, shall many also be made righteous.

there’s one mediator one victim one sacrifice

you're not involved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ the lamb of God died and shed his blood that accomplished the redemption of all mankind

Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by that obedience of that one, shall many also be made righteous.

there’s one mediator one victim one sacrifice

you're not involved

Your right,

that one sacrifice was Christ,

your not involved, not of works lest anyone should boast

instead of boasting of your sacrificial works (sacraments)

repent and find Christ

 

[theefaith]

Your right,

that one sacrifice was Christ,

your not involved, not of works lest anyone should boast

instead of boasting of your sacrificial works (sacraments)

repent and find Christ

I was explaining redemption

justification requires our participation and faith and sacraments

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was explaining redemption

justification requires our participation and faith and sacraments

Nope

if Abraham was justified by works he has something to boast about.

romans 4 says otherwise

You will find now place in scripture where it says the penalty of sin is the sacraments,

 

[theefaith]

Nope

if Abraham was justified by works he has something to boast about.

romans 4 says otherwise

You will find now place in scripture where it says the penalty of sin is the sacraments,

What are you talking about? The penalty of sin?

the sacraments are the new covenant instituted by Christ and prophecy of them in the ot. Ez 36:25-27 reference acts 2:38-39 promise of the father
Promise sacred oath aka sacrament

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What are you talking about? The penalty of sin?

the sacraments are the new covenant instituted by Christ and prophecy of them in the ot. Ez 36:25-27 reference acts 2:38-39 promise of the father
Promise sacred oath aka sacrament

Don’t you know anything about justice.
Justice imposes a penalty on a crime, if someone commits that crime, that is the penalty they pay

unless they are redeemed, and someone else pays that penalty for them.

once the debt is paid in full “tetelisti (sp?) then their debt is paid and they are said to be justified, or declaired righteous of debt,

the OT shows us from the time of Adam what must be done to redeem the sin of mankind an innocent animal without spit must be sacrificed. Why? Because the penalty of sin is death a person can not be redeemed without that debt being paid. That is the debt you now God, and that debt is unredeemable we know this because those who are in redeemed will suffer eternal death with no hope of redemption.

but they have no excuse, the son of God was sent by the father, to be lifted up as moses raised the serpent, that all who believe will not suffer the penalty of sin, but has everlasting life,

that’s called justification according to redemption

your sacrament can not pay your sin debt, the penalty of sin is death, that’s why the price of redemption is the blood, Jesu paid it for you for me for everyone, all we have to do is listen to his calling, let the Hs work in us to the point we eat the food which endures to eternal life, and we have his assurance he will raise us on the last day

your sacraments will not more save you then the works of the law saved the Jew.

 

[theefaith]

Don’t you know anything about justice.
Justice imposes a penalty on a crime, if someone commits that crime, that is the penalty they pay

unless they are redeemed, and someone else pays that penalty for them.

once the debt is paid in full “tetelisti (sp?) then their debt is paid and they are said to be justified, or declaired righteous of debt,

the OT shows us from the time of Adam what must be done to redeem the sin of mankind an innocent animal without spit must be sacrificed. Why? Because the penalty of sin is death a person can not be redeemed without that debt being paid. That is the debt you now God, and that debt is unredeemable we know this because those who are in redeemed will suffer eternal death with no hope of redemption.

but they have no excuse, the son of God was sent by the father, to be lifted up as moses raised the serpent, that all who believe will not suffer the penalty of sin, but has everlasting life,

that’s called justification according to redemption

your sacrament can not pay your sin debt, the penalty of sin is death, that’s why the price of redemption is the blood, Jesu paid it for you for me for everyone, all we have to do is listen to his calling, let the Hs work in us to the point we eat the food which endures to eternal life, and we have his assurance he will raise us on the last day

your sacraments will not more save you then the works of the law saved the Jew.

really? Then why did Christ institute them?

where does it say “faith alone” can?

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!


Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

How can you be in the new covenant church without the sacraments?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

How can you put on Christ? Or be a member of Christ without the sacraments?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.