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Ronald Nolette

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no but no ndd red else is to either
Matt 21:43 kingdom taken from them and given to the church who bears fruit Jn 15:1-5
Matt 16:18 18:18 keys and power to bind given to Peter and the apostles

Then you contradict yourself from post 305

Well the unpardonable sin happened before Peter was given the keys! Why is that applicable to everyone but the command to obey those who say you don't have to? That is hypocrisy based on your earlier statement
 

theefaith

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Then you contradict yourself from post 305

Well the unpardonable sin happened before Peter was given the keys! Why is that applicable to everyone but the command to obey those who say you don't have to? That is hypocrisy based on your earlier statement

please clarify you’re question
 

theefaith

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The unpardonable sin is dying in a state of refusing to repent
 

Ronald Nolette

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please clarify you’re question

1. I said the gospels did not apply to all the church. PArts were for Israel only.
2. You said I was froim another planet in 305 and said it all applied.
3. then you said obeying those ojn MOses seat does not apply

That is known as a contradiction!
 

Eternally Grateful

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really? Then why did Christ institute them?

where does it say “faith alone” can?

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!


Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

How can you be in the new covenant church without the sacraments?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

How can you put on Christ? Or be a member of Christ without the sacraments?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
God has given many commands all through scripture, not just the commands you call sacraments,

one things he has always said is forgiveness can only come through shed blood, that’s what the law was given for to teach us this basic premise of mans plight before God

Jesus, the lamb of God came to take the sins of the world as John said, justification can ONlY come through the shed blood of redemption,

your sacraments will no more remove one sin that all the works of the law combined,
 
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theefaith

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1. I said the gospels did not apply to all the church. PArts were for Israel only.
2. You said I was froim another planet in 305 and said it all applied.
3. then you said obeying those ojn MOses seat does not apply

That is known as a contradiction!

the planet thing was about someone you were replying to not you

no the new covenant was not established yet
 

theefaith

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God has given many commands all through scripture, not just the commands you call sacraments,

one things he has always said is forgiveness can only come through shed blood, that’s what the law was given for to teach us this basic premise of mans plight before God

Jesus, the lamb of God came to take the sins of the world as John said, justification can ONlY come through the shed blood of redemption,

your sacraments will no more remove one sin that all the works of the law combined,

Really? Not what the Bible says in reference to Saint Paul acts 22:16

so only those at the cross whom the blood fell on can be saved?
 

theefaith

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Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!


Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?




Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

Eternally Grateful

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Really? Not what the Bible says in reference to Saint Paul acts 22:16

so only those at the cross whom the blood fell on can be saved?
No one is saved apart from blood

No one WILL be saved because they got Baptized

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done.

I have to take paul at his word.. He did s=not say not by works of righteousness except the works of the sacraments. You can not find that in scripture.


He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

He who does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already

No work involved. No sacraments. No anything of the flesh. It is the work of God..
 

Eternally Grateful

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Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!


Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?




Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
While you are at it. Why don't you add all the works of the law. If you really want to be obedient. you better follow every command.
 

theefaith

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No one is saved apart from blood

No one WILL be saved because they got Baptized

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done.

I have to take paul at his word.. He did s=not say not by works of righteousness except the works of the sacraments. You can not find that in scripture.


He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

He who does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already

No work involved. No sacraments. No anything of the flesh. It is the work of God..

you cannot use one scripture against another

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

How can you receive the promise of the father without baptism?

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

How can you be in the new covenant church without baptism?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

how can you wash away your sins without baptism?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

how can you put on Christ without baptism?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

how can you be a new creation with regeneration without baptism?

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

How can you be saved without baptism?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

How can you deny so much scripture?

if ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ? Then denial of scripture is denial of Christ!

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 

theefaith

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Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

theefaith

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While you are at it. Why don't you add all the works of the law. If you really want to be obedient. you better follow every command.

we must obey the commandments they are the eternal moral law
You will find them in the new testament
 

theefaith

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No one is saved apart from blood

true!

so how is the physical blood going to be applied to you’re spiritual soul???
 

Gregory

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once again

Romans 11:6 (NKJV): And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

It can not be both, It can only be one or the other.

So no matter what you post. If it says it is grace plus works. It can not be talking about true justification/salvation.
You do realize that Paul distinguishes between "works of the Law of Moses" and "good works of Jesus"? Right?
There is a difference between the works of the law of Moses, and the good works done as a newly baptized member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

For instance, the Jews thought if they went to church on Sunday, they would be saved for that work. We Christians go to church on Saturday or Sunday because we love Jesus and want to learn about him. They are both good works, but the attitude is different.

Our good works do not save us, but without our good works we will not be saved. It is a sign that we are saved. We are not doing good works to work our way into heaven, but we are doing good works because Jesus has asked us to do good works. And so has Paul, who tells us not to be engaged in the works of the law of Moses, but to be fully engaged in the good works of Jesus Christ.
 

Gregory

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It is absurd to think that a man can give up his faith, and deny Jesus Christ, and think that this same Jesus Christ is going to drag him, kicking and screaming into heaven because one time in his life he believed. It is not going to happen.

You see the result of such a doctrine. I can sin all I want, I can even deny Jesus and spit on the cross, I can rape and murder and commit all manner of sins, but because I confessed once about 30 years ago, I will be saved in the holy kingdom of heaven with Jesus. Good luck.
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE

blood of Jesus


Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 

Eternally Grateful

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we must obey the commandments they are the eternal moral law
You will find them in the new testament
Yep

and you better be perfect while your at it, if not. You will end up in hell, we’ll that is unless the blood of Jesus washes your sins away based on the fact you said yes to his offer of salvation
 

Eternally Grateful

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You do realize that Paul distinguishes between "works of the Law of Moses" and "good works of Jesus"? Right?
There is a difference between the works of the law of Moses, and the good works done as a newly baptized member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

For instance, the Jews thought if they went to church on Sunday, they would be saved for that work. We Christians go to church on Saturday or Sunday because we love Jesus and want to learn about him. They are both good works, but the attitude is different.

Our good works do not save us, but without our good works we will not be saved. It is a sign that we are saved. We are not doing good works to work our way into heaven, but we are doing good works because Jesus has asked us to do good works. And so has Paul, who tells us not to be engaged in the works of the law of Moses, but to be fully engaged in the good works of Jesus Christ.
You do realise in titus 3 that Paul does not distinguish any work, be it of the law or the works commanded to the church, he just says they are works of righteousness, or better interpreted, good deeds, of any type

so while yes in some parts, paul, in refuting these trying to add wrks of the law. Paul said by the woks of the law no one will be justified, in Eph 2 and titus 3 especially he meant no work whatsoever, we can also add Romans 4 as there was no law in abrahams day,

works of obedience are done as we are made new creatures, we are created for those works (Eph 2:10) they are not done to earn or maintain salvation. That would make salvation of works not grace
 

Eternally Grateful

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It is absurd to think that a man can give up his faith, and deny Jesus Christ, and think that this same Jesus Christ is going to drag him, kicking and screaming into heaven because one time in his life he believed. It is not going to happen.

You see the result of such a doctrine. I can sin all I want, I can even deny Jesus and spit on the cross, I can rape and murder and commit all manner of sins, but because I confessed once about 30 years ago, I will be saved in the holy kingdom of heaven with Jesus. Good luck.
It’s absurd to think that one who has true faith would ever chose to deny Christ, you only lose faith in people that prove to be untrustworthy, to say A person can lose faith in God is to say God is not trustworthy, why would you say this?

John said they were NEVER saved anyway, (never of us). So Jesus is not going to let people who deny him or lose faith, so please do not be like others who think we claim otherwise