Osas

[Jordan]

(Elf;42728)
(thesuperjag;42700)
John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.Doesn't sound like OSAS, as OSAS can be easily disproved by God and His Word.
Are you saying you believe in OSAS?I don't know, you tell me by my previous posts and see if I believe in men's teaching.

 

[Christina]

Think of it this way if your best friend made you a promise lets say he promised he would never devulge your secret if you promised never to tell his secret. Then he goes out and tells your secret to everyone are you still bound to keep his ??? the answer is No he broke his word Now you do not have to stoop to his level and tell his secret but the oath between you is broken it is much the same with God You break your promise to keep him as your God and follow his laws if you break your promise it is you who broke the Oath not God

 

[Jackie D]

(Elf;42721)
What do you mean "ready for salvation?" What would I have to do?
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. that is the extent of it Elf. There is nothing more. And you can believe that and trust that with this action the Lord will lead you to where you need to go. I assume you have a bible, if not get one that you can readily understand.You don't have to make this confession of belief in Christ to anyone but you and Him....and then, keep it simple. Trust this, the more simple you keep it, the more the Lord will be able to show you His path and the more readily you will understand. That is a PROMISE!!God bless you

 

[Jackie D]

(Elf;42728)
Doesn't scripture say somewhere: "Be perfect for I am perfect?"
it simply means that we strive to obtain perfection. Trust me Elf, the Lord knows you will fall short. He gave His life because of the fact that He know that none are perfect and none would ever be. He gave His life as THE sacrifice once and for all, for all people and to atone for all sin......His love is so great for all of us that He was willing to die to save us. It is an INFINITE and PERFECT love that covers a multitude of wrongs.

 

[Letsgofishing]

(Elf;42725)
There really is a lot to read here, it will take some time. There are a couple verses that catch my attention, if you don't mind may I ask you a couple questions about them?
Go ahead !!! I'm all ears

 

[Elf]

(kriss;42736)
Think of it this way if your best friend made you a promise lets say he promised he would never devulge your secret if you promised never to tell his secret. Then he goes out and tells your secret to everyone are you still bound to keep his ???
This depends on my integrity? Just because he broke his, I should break mine? When I make a promise to someone (a best friend) It would be seasoned with admiration. And an understanding, that he may just break his or her promise, afterall, they are only human. Then again, I may break mine first.
Then he goes out and tells your secret to everyone
Guess we shouldn't put our faith in man!
are you still bound to keep his ???
Depends on what type of person I am, do I want to win my brother (friend). I believe I am still bound to keep my promise, I cannot control my friend, at best I can only hope. But myself? Unless I am a vengefully person, yes I am still bound by my word and conscience! aren't you?
the answer is No he broke his word
I disagree!
Now you do not have to stoop to his level and tell his secret but the oath between you is broken it is much the same with God You break your promise to keep him as your God and follow his laws if you break your promise it is you who broke the Oath not God
Do you, being a Christian, believe that after God sending Jesus into the world to suffer a physical and spiritually agonizing death as He did for you, He will just take salvation from you because you broke a promise? You make it sounds like God just lays in wait for someone to mess up. Just because us humans break promises, does this mean God does so also by the same standards?

 

[Christina]

This was just a hypothetical scenario to better explain that a contract /promise broken by one breaks the oath it wasn't met as real judge of your or anyone else's characterits just an example of legal /contract promise even though spoken has two participants you and God if you break yours God is not held to his promise till you recommit to yours

 

[Elf]

(kriss;42878)
This was just a hypothetical scenario to better explain that a contract /promise broken by one breaks the oath it wasn't met as real judge of your or anyone else's characterits just an example of legal /contract promise even though spoken has two participants you and God if you break yours God is not held to his promise till you recommit to yours
Ok, I understand. Where can I find this in scripture? I would like to look into it, it is interesting.

 

[Christina]

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.Just because you were once saved if you turn against God and deny Christ is the Wayyou will not still be saved. unless you repent and turn back to God.thats it you are not once saved always saved you have a free will to break you oathonly if you remain faithful even if you sin are you still saved.

 

[Elf]

Can I ask a couple questions? (kriss;42971)
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.
What is the meaning of Mathew 7:21? "In it's context-Mathew 7:13-27? There is no hint "in the context" that Jesus is talking about Spirit regenerated Christians. v15-16 beware of false prophets, you will know them by their fruit: : Just because people say they are Christians, go to church and act like Christians, does not mean they are true regenerated Christians, we may be fooled, but God knows, He is not fooled. And not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. These false teachers who pretend to lead you by an easy and wide path to everlasting life, you are warned how you will know them "by their fruit" unsound doctrines and teachings ect...Christians need to carefully try those whom they receive as ambassadors of Christ, with both respect to the nature and tendency of their doctrine. Let nothing short of assured faith in Christ along with gospel holiness in all manner of conversion, satisfy us. Genuine intimacy with the Father means knowing God and being known by Him.
Just because you were once saved if you turn against God and deny Christ is the Wayyou will not still be saved. unless you repent and turn back to God.
A true Christian will never deny Christ!
thats it you are not once saved always saved you have a free will to break you oathonly if you remain faithful even if you sin are you still saved.
This verse in context does not dis-prove OSAS, it does not even speak of this. In it's context, it is not even implied! I assume you must have other verses to dis-prove OSAS? It is not safe to try and prove or disprove any doctrines on a single verse, especially on one where it is not even implied.A thought: I am sure on that day of judgment, probably everyone before God will say, Lord, Lord! for different reasons.

 

[Christina]

(Elf;42980)
Can I ask a couple questions? What is the meaning of Mathew 7:21? "In it's context-Mathew 7:13-27? There is no hint "in the context" that Jesus is talking about Spirit regenerated Christians. v15-16 beware of false prophets, you will know them by their fruit: : Just because people say they are Christians, go to church and act like Christians, does not mean they are true regenerated Christians, we may be fooled, but God knows, He is not fooled. And not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. These false teachers who pretend to lead you by an easy and wide path to everlasting life, you are warned how you will know them "by their fruit" unsound doctrines and teachings ect...Christians need to carefully try those whom they receive as ambassadors of Christ, with both respect to the nature and tendency of their doctrine. Let nothing short of assured faith in Christ along with gospel holiness in all manner of conversion, satisfy us. Genuine intimacy with the Father means knowing God and being known by Him. A true Christian will never deny Christ! This verse in context does not dis-prove OSAS, it does not even speak of this. In it's context, it is not even implied! I assume you must have other verses to dis-prove OSAS? It is not safe to try and prove or disprove any doctrines on a single verse, especially on one where it is not even implied.A thought: I am sure on that day of judgment, probably everyone before God will say, Lord, Lord! for different reasons.
For one thing claiming someone wasnt truly reborn is a falsehood you can not know that there are a million teachers/preachers out there that truly believe in their hearts they are saved but they teach a false doctrine they will be saved but pay for their evil workssecondly the false prophets verses's is also refering to is Antichrist many will belive he is Christ and the whole world will follow after him, why? because they didnt read Gods Words these will not be saved as they chose to follow Antichrist instead of waiting for the true Christ as we are told. thridly the last quote in my post wasnt scripture it was my conclusion you are not going to find a scripture that says once saved always saved is or isnt real God expects you read his whole word and then it becomes very obvious that you must keep your promise or the contract is broken

 

[zadzial]

(Elf;42980)
Can I ask a couple questions? What is the meaning of Mathew 7:21? "In it's context-Mathew 7:13-27? There is no hint "in the context" that Jesus is talking about Spirit regenerated Christians. v15-16 beware of false prophets, you will know them by their fruit: : Just because people say they are Christians, go to church and act like Christians, does not mean they are true regenerated Christians, we may be fooled, but God knows, He is not fooled. And not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. These false teachers who pretend to lead you by an easy and wide path to everlasting life, you are warned how you will know them "by their fruit" unsound doctrines and teachings ect...Christians need to carefully try those whom they receive as ambassadors of Christ, with both respect to the nature and tendency of their doctrine. Let nothing short of assured faith in Christ along with gospel holiness in all manner of conversion, satisfy us. Genuine intimacy with the Father means knowing God and being known by Him.
Well answered Elf. In context, Jesus is talking about people paying lip-service. Those who pretend to be Christians but who in reality are not. (Elf;42980)
A true Christian will never deny Christ!
Exactly! "We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father full of grace and truth. (John1:14 - NIV). Who, having truly seen the glory of God, could ever turn away? (Elf;42980)
This verse in context does not dis-prove OSAS, it does not even speak of this. In it's context, it is not even implied! I assume you must have other verses to dis-prove OSAS? It is not safe to try and prove or disprove any doctrines on a single verse, especially on one where it is not even implied.A thought: I am sure on that day of judgment, probably everyone before God will say, Lord, Lord! for different reasons.
So true! As can be seen from this thread there is considerable debate among Christians on this issue.The idea behind the OSAS doctrine is that, once imparted, salvation cannot be lost. It has also been known as "the perseverance of the saints". This doctrine has been consistently maintained in Reformed theology and (despite what others in this thread have stated) there is certainly clear support for it in Scripture.: Christ tells his disciples, "they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand" (Jn 10:28, compare with John 6:37 and 40); Paul asserts: "those he justified, he also glorified..." and again "...nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord: (Rom 8:30, 39); And again in Philippians Paul says "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion: (Phil 1:6); Peter assures his readers that "through faith [we] are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation..in the last time"(1 Pet 1:5). Salvation is a work of God's sovereign grace ("For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of God - not by works so that no one can boast" (Eph 2:8). If our coming to God was his work rather than ours, our continuing with him is his work also.The other side of the arguments teaches that there is still an open the door to the possibility of those who once believed being eventually lost. The letter to the Hebrews warns Christians against false presumption and the terrible implications renouncing their faith in Christ (2:3, 4:1, 6:1-9, 10:1) Likewise, Jesus himself warns against this (Mt 24:13; Jn 15:6, Rev 2:5).However, the two sides of the argument are not irreconcilable. Scripture states clearly that all who are drawn to Christ and come to faith in him are eternally delivered from sin and its condemnation. However, this said it is also important for a Christian to never presents this as a ground for moral carelessness. People who are truly born again of the Holy Spirit will give evidence of it by striving to live a holy life. Having said this, I must emphasise that it is important to remember that just because one becomes a Christian does not mean that a Christian never sins. However, a Christian because of their love and thankfulness to God will not want to be disobedient to the God and so strives to do what God wants. Anyone who returns wholeheartedly to sin, renounces former Christian ways, manifests no remorse in doing so and continues in this way to the end of life was, despite initial appearances, never truly "born again".Our heavenly Father loves us, and he does not want his children to doubt the condition of their relationship with him.

 

[Christina]

Thats because there is an open door if you take all of scripture into account and not single verses NO ONE is sealed till the end You have a promise to be sealed IF you strive to stay in his Word You can not just get saved and do what ever suits you Sealing is the End its the completness a promise to be sealed is just that a contract between God and the indivual God will always keep his side but will you keep yours thats what its all about.

 

[Elf]

(kriss;42971)
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.Just because you were once saved if you turn against God and deny Christ is the Wayyou will not still be saved. unless you repent and turn back to God.thats it you are not once saved always saved you have a free will to break you oathonly if you remain faithful even if you sin are you still saved.
(kriss;43021)
For one thing claiming someone wasnt truly reborn is a falsehood you can not know that there are a million teachers/preachers out there that truly believe in their hearts they are saved but they teach a false doctrine they will be saved but pay for their evil works
I never claimed any particular person was never saved. You put those words in my mouth. Do you believe everyone who say they are a Christian, are in fact a Christian?
secondly the false prophets verses's is also refering to is Antichrist many will belive he is Christ and the whole world will follow after him, why? because they didnt read Gods Words these will not be saved as they chose to follow Antichrist instead of waiting for the true Christ as we are told.
True, many passages have a two fold meaning.
thridly the last quote in my post wasnt scripture it was my conclusion you are not going to find a scripture that says once saved always saved is or isnt real God expects you read his whole word and then it becomes very obvious that you must keep your promise or the contract is broken
I disagree! If someone in truly saved, they cannot be eternally lost. I do not believe in a God that has nothing to do with my salvation, where I can go in and out of salvation. Good grief! what a life! That is not the God I believe in, nor will I. And to teach such a thing, is to teach a false doctrine.To believe one can be saved at a particular time, only to fall away (loose salvation) then be reborn again, and later fall away again, and finally (hopefully) at the point of death, be saved! WOW, what a life. If this were true Christianity? I don't want it! You can keep it. Like Luther said, eat the feathers and all. I believe in the God of the bible, I am saved because it is His will, and by His grace, through faith, which is also a gift, I am a child of God, regenerated. Saved by the blood of Christ, held by God's power not mine. I can't loose my salvation. I believe Christs promise that He will never leave nor forsake us, even if for a season we backslide. A Christian is sealed by the Holy Spirit. It is all my God's doing, I have nothing to boast about, I owe it all to Him.Here is a couple verses to support OSAS, or Perseverance of the saints, please, look into them in the context.Isaiah 43:1-3, Isaiah 54:10, John 6:35-40, John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30, Romans 8:35-39, Ephesians 4:30, Hebrews 10:14, Jude 1:24-25 To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ.Why do people leave? Were they Christians in the first place? 1 John 2:19, They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us. Read this in context. Even by itself it is explicit, they left because they are not of us. These that left, or will leave, leave, not because they are not good Christians, not because they are bad Christians, but because they are not Christians! To say different without passages to support your theory is not safe, or practical. Please, to prove your theory, use more than one or two verses in their proper context, let scripture speak for itself.God Bless.

 

[Christina]

I done discussing this you are ignoring what the doctrine is and trying to relate to your self its not about you its a belief that as long as you were saved once in your life timeyou can do whatever you want and still be saved thats the doctrine if you believe fine but thats not what God says

 

[Elf]

(kriss;43038)
Thats because there is an open door if you take all of scripture into account and not single verses NO ONE is sealed till the end You have a promise to be sealed IF you strive to stay in his Word You can not just get saved and do what ever suits you Sealing is the End its the completness
Again, I have to disagree with you along with scripture. But I am curious how you come to believe this.Remember what you said, not one verse? Ephesians 4:30, Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.ephesians 1:13, In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, Here is a supporting verse, where do you see being "sealed" is a future promise?
if you take all of scripture into account and not single verses NO ONE is sealed till the end You have a promise to be sealed
It explicitly says ""after listening" to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--"having also believed", "you were sealed in Him" with the Holy Spirit of promise""This is talking about at the moment of belief, salvation! It can't get anymore plainer then this.
a promise to be sealed is just that a contract between God and the indivual God will always keep his side but will you keep yours thats what its all about.
Please, watch what you teach, please pray about this. Remember, there is a stricter judgment for teachers. Please consider this.

 

[Elf]

(kriss;43038)
Thats because there is an open door if you take all of scripture into account and not single verses NO ONE is sealed till the end You have a promise to be sealed IF you strive to stay in his Word You can not just get saved and do what ever suits you Sealing is the End its the completness a promise to be sealed is just that a contract between God and the indivual God will always keep his side but will you keep yours thats what its all about.
(kriss;43050)
I done discussing this you are ignoring what the doctrine is and trying to relate to your self its not about you its a belief that as long as you were saved once in your life timeyou can do whatever you want and still be saved thats the doctrine if you believe fine but thats not what God says

its a belief that as long as you were saved once in your life timeyou can do whatever you want and still be saved thats the doctrine
No this is not what OSAS means, This is what you think it means. If you are interested, tomorrow, I will help clarify its meaning and show you where it is not a license to sin. If someone thinks he could do what ever he wants in life and still be saved, he or she is in great error, and according to scripture: probably not even genuinely saved, at the least they are in a very serious state.

 

[Jordan]

Actually OSAS is a false doctrine...here let me bring back a very old post of mine...(thesuperjag;10034)
Writer the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded.

 

[Christina]

ElfLook I been moderating this site for 2 years I have studied for 20 years I've had this argument 1000 times I know what the doctrine is if you wanna change it to something its not your choice but you are arguing against something that you do not understand so there no point going on with this Ive said what I have to say I know what the doctrine is its a belief that as long as you were saved once in your life timeyou can do whatever you want and still be saved thats the doctrine Just as Jag said above that is OSAS

 

[Elf]

(thesuperjag;43061)
Actually OSAS is a false doctrine...here let me bring back a very old post of mine...
I am sorry you feel this way, especially not needing scripture.