Our Soul

[bbyrd009]

Origen got excommunicated for suggesting pre-existence of the soul.....i always liked Origen; brilliant theologian in the early church. I do reject his idea about pre-existence however....i just dont see any evidence for it. Fun to think about, however

what about the "before you were born, i knew you" language?

 

[bbyrd009]

where is that at?

so anyway, i'll give you a break since you surely think you were defending God, and i have been there myself (hell), this search link led me to Chronicles this morning, but last night it led me to Jeremiah 17:10, pretty weird, that. I posted it here and then deleted it, if anyone in this thread subscribes to it by email and can repost the search link from yesterday evening that might be interesting, as it had more supporting stuff for this heart/mind concept.

"And the drama of playing out the lie cast the dye, for our compulsion to label Gods good creation good and bad according to our own benefit."

 

[bbyrd009]

Origen got excommunicated for suggesting pre-existence of the soul

i guess this will sound fractious or whatever, but in light of Copernicus et al does that fact lend any credence to Origen's suggestion here in your mind?

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus has been judged in our place and passed with flying colors.

Romans 2:16, This will take place on the day when God judges people's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

I would quote the multiple verses that assure you that your works will be judged, but i guess there is no point

 

[DPMartin]

so anyway, i'll give you a break since you surely think you were defending God, and i have been there myself (hell), this search link led me to Chronicles this morning, but last night it led me to Jeremiah 17:10, pretty weird, that. I posted it here and then deleted it, if anyone in this thread subscribes to it by email and can repost the search link from yesterday evening that might be interesting, as it had more supporting stuff for this heart/mind concept.

"And the drama of playing out the lie cast the dye, for our compulsion to label Gods good creation good and bad according to our own benefit."

no you're delusional, or mistaken (hopefully), I don't think I'm defending God, maybe you do, but I don't. God need no one's defense, despite some of these avatars one sees on this site implies. God the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, or it could be said the Power, the Word and the Presence of that Power that is God need no one's help. the Kingdom of God is in no danger of breach.


but scripture and what God says something is, is what it is. not some teaching outside of that. now if in your own judgement that outside teaching is the truth, and not scripture and especially what Jesus says, who is the "Truth", so be it. you can always stay in your cocoon of safety being correct about your own opinion.

 

[bbyrd009]

no you're delusional, or mistaken (hopefully), I don't think I'm defending God, maybe you do, but I don't. God need no one's defense, despite some of these avatars one sees on this site implies. God the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, or it could be said the Power, the Word and the Presence of that Power that is God need no one's help. the Kingdom of God is in no danger of breach.

i hope you understand that once you have intimated that you know it all, and then you are surprised by something that you do not even know, it makes it hard to take you very seriously from here on out, sans confession, ok? Which would be your salvation here. I say this only because i...really have no dog in the hunt, if i had any emotions in this matter i would just refrain here. So in your position i would go with "delusional" where i am concerned iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

but scripture and what God says something is, is what it is. not some teaching outside of that. now if in your own judgement that outside teaching is the truth, and not scripture and especially what Jesus says, who is the "Truth", so be it. you can always stay in your cocoon of safety being correct about your own opinion.

not quite sure what you are saying here, as you are not addressing the two Scriptures ref'ed, or the body of interpretation that has come up around this concept. If this is any reply, let me once again say right now that i do not know, and all i have is an opinion/belief, and i fully expect this opinion to be superseded at some point with a better understanding, ok?

a passing thought experiment was "could a guy with a Jarvik heart still "speak from the heart?"

 

[Armadillo]

I would quote the multiple verses that assure you that your works will be judged, but i guess there is no point

Is the spirit made perfect or the soul? Does the soul go to heaven or the spirit? Do the soul and spirit go to heaven? Is there a difference between the soul and the spirit?

 

[bbyrd009]

but scripture and what God says something is, is what it is.

yet Doctorates of Theology have been debating this for centuries, and none of them would presume to your position wadr, at least not for long

you can always stay in your cocoon of safety being correct about your own opinion.

 

[bbyrd009]

Is the spirit made perfect or the soul? Does the soul go to heaven or the spirit? Do the soul and spirit go to heaven? Is there a difference between the soul and the spirit?

i'm not sure how answering these would get me an answer, but i'll play along. Rather than edit, i'll just give my opinions there 1,2,3,4 ok:
1)soul
2)no one goes anywhere, heaven is not a place, but it is the soul that brings the kingdom right beside them to fruition imo
3)imo the spirit animates the body, the soul inhabits the body while on earth
4)you got a dup Q in there :)

 

[Armadillo]

i'm not sure how answering these would get me an answer, but i'll play along. Rather than edit, i'll just give my opinions there 1,2,3,4 ok:
1)soul
2)no one goes anywhere, heaven is not a place, but it is the soul that brings the kingdom right beside them to fruition imo
3)imo the spirit animates the body, the soul inhabits the body while on earth
4)you got a dup Q in there :)

For number 1, the soul is your answer, how is the soul made perfect? Verse please.

 

[bbyrd009]

For number 1, the soul is your answer, how is the soul made perfect? Verse please.

k, i'm not interested any more, please make your point now, ty.

"I would quote the multiple verses that assure you that your works will be judged."

 

[Armadillo]

k, i'm not interested any more, please make your point now, ty.

"I would quote the multiple verses that assure you that your works will be judged."

But the OP is about the soul, not works. If you are no longer interested in the soul, I have no issue with that, but your responses would lead up to my point and without your responses, I can't be bothered either. ;)

 

[bbyrd009]

But the OP is about the soul, not works.

but we are proceeding from your assertion "Jesus has been judged in our place and passed with flying colors," not the op. Jesus has not been judged in our place iow, no man may die for the sins of another, and you will be judged for your works. Those are Scripture.

and i did not say that i can't be bothered, i said i am not interested in being manipulated away from the point.

 

[Dcopymope]

what about the "before you were born, i knew you" language?

If I was the Alpha AND the Omega, the first that ever was and the last that ever will be, then I can tell you that I knew you before you were born. It will be easy for me, because I know the future. What you call "the future" to me would have already occurred, so therefore I can declare your end from "the beginning".

(Isaiah 46:9-11) "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, {10} Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: {11} Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it."

Its simply a way in declaring his omniscience and has nothing at all to do with your pre-existence.

 

[bbyrd009]

If I was the Alpha AND the Omega, the first that ever was and the last that ever will be, then I can tell you that I knew you before you were born. It will be easy for me, because I know the future. What you call "the future" to me would have already occurred, so therefore I can declare your end from "the beginning".



Its simply a way in declaring his omniscience and has nothing at all to do with your pre-existence.

i like this, as far as it goes, and it might be adequate, but i also see that a parent might "know the end from the beginning" in one of their children, in that sense, without being the A&O, or outside of time, so this also strikes me as kind of cheating

 

[Dcopymope]

i like this, as far as it goes, and it might be adequate, but i also see that a parent might "know the end from the beginning" in one of their children, in that sense, without being the A&O, or outside of time, so this also strikes me as kind of cheating

M'kay......whatever.

 

[bbyrd009]

M'kay......whatever.

ha, it is strictly a perspective, i doubt very much whether we will solve pre-existence today.
How might you be predestined if you did not pre-exist?

 

[Dcopymope]

ha, it is strictly a perspective, i doubt very much whether we will solve pre-existence today.
How might you be predestined if you did not pre-exist?

Once again, If I'm God and I know the end from the start, before you were even born, then I don't need you to exist to know that, because I'm God. This is only hard to understand for those who want to inject some form of blasphemous reincarnation into the word of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is only hard to understand for those who want to inject some form of blasphemous reincarnation into the word of God.

ha, Elijah beware i guess, huh? Ya, imo reincarnation is a diff subject than pre-existence, should be pretty obvious. I am totally guessing in either case anyway, and so is everyone else.