Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[Enow]

The pagans never used their version of tongues for private use. It was always used as part of their temple ritual.

Voodoo doctors use tongues privately. So do the occult.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

The sticking point, the question that is difficult to get around is that Paul says he speaks with tongues more than them all, but in the church he would rather speak clear language so that others can understand him. It is clear that he did most of his speaking in tongues away from the church. So, does this mean that Paul, speaking in tongues by himself and not among the other believers in church, was speaking pagan tongues? Because this is what you are saying - that anyone who speaks in tongues by himself and not among other believers for the purpose of interpretation, including Paul, is speaking pagan tongues. Therefore, are you saying that Paul is engaging in pagan worship when by himself, but in Christian worship with other believers?

You see, the phrase "but in the church" is the large elephant in the room here.

The sticking point is Paul was testifying to something they all knew because he was speaking in tongues more than them all in church. Paul cannot testify to that if he was referring to private use of tongues not done in the assembly.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

So the but is about Paul preferring to speak five words understood by all rather than a thousand in tongues.

 

[Enow]

And how do you suggest I test your spirit? You are blaspheming a gift of God and attributing it to pagans and Satan.

Do you want to read the OP again of that article provided by that link? Secular history reports the existence of pagan's supernatural tongue in use across many cultures before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people; not for speaking back to God.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

That is a Biblical reference in the O.T. proving that kind of supernatural tongue existed before Pentecost for why God's gift of tongues would never sound like pagan's tongues of gibberish nonsense, because it is a foreign language understood by that respective native foreigner. That is why when the Holy Spirit "bothers" to manifest tongues by 2 or 3, He will manifest interpretation by another believer on those tongues spoken one by one.

Why 2 or 3? That is the practice for establishing a testimony in church by anyone led by the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

 

[Enow]

Enow, I'll read this later. I need to eat something. Why don't you read the rest of my posts to you as I may have already answered your comments and you can edit this one.

I have to fix supper for my family, so I'll pass, sister. We are at an impasse from which we are going to have to agree to disagree. I leave you to God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Each person heard the word of God in their own tongue, by the power of God. Simple as that.

There's no mention of babbling or stuff like that. Just people hearing the word of God in their own tongue.

The point is it wasn't natural hearing, but supernatural hearing.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have to fix supper for my family, so I'll pass, sister. We are at an impasse from which we are going to have to agree to disagree. I leave you to God.

That is up to you. I don't know why you won't budge on thinking you have a right to contradict scripture, but we will totally disagree on your right to do that.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The point is it wasn't natural hearing, but supernatural hearing.

Again, I respectfully disagree.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Voodoo doctors use tongues privately. So do the occult.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?



The sticking point is Paul was testifying to something they all knew because he was speaking in tongues more than them all in church. Paul cannot testify to that if he was referring to private use of tongues not done in the assembly.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

So the but is about Paul preferring to speak five words understood by all rather than a thousand in tongues.

You are totally ignoring the plain English of the text! He say but in the Church, not and in the church! Come on man! Are you so stuck on your own opinion that you are ignoring basic English structure and usage??? AAAAmazzzing!!!

Look up the dictionary meaning for "but" and tell me what it means in English usage, and then tell me how you can read the word but as "and"?

So, have you participated in voodoo worship and eavesdropped on pagan private worship? Or are you just guessing??

 

[Enow]

That is up to you. I don't know why you won't budge on thinking you have a right to contradict scripture, but we will totally disagree on your right to do that.

It is not a matter of contradicting scripture as it is we disagree on rightly dividing the word of truth so I leave you to His care as it is on Him to help you see the truth in His words as He is hated by the world because He exposes the works of darkness..

Mark 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

 

[Enow]

You are totally ignoring the plain English of the text! He say but in the Church, not and in the church! Come on man! Are you so stuck on your own opinion that you are ignoring basic English structure and usage??? AAAAmazzzing!!!

Look up the dictionary meaning for "but" and tell me what it means in English usage, and then tell me how you can read the word but as "and"?

So, have you participated in voodoo worship and eavesdropped on pagan private worship? Or are you just guessing??

It is how you accentuate parts of the verse while ignoring the context of the message for why we must agree to disagree.

Paul was never talking about tongues for private use, but why prophesy is better because prophesy is a stand alone gift whereas tongues is not.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is how you accentuate parts of the verse while ignoring the context of the message for why we must agree to disagree.

Paul was never talking about tongues for private use, but why prophesy is better because prophesy is a stand alone gift whereas tongues is not.

You are not addressing Paul's use of "but".
If I say that I love standing on my head whistling "Jingle Bells" more than anyone, but during church services I behave decently and in order, does that mean that I stand on my head whistling "Jingle Bells" in church and nowhere else?

It is dawning on me that you know exactly what the word "but" means. except (or "but") you don't want to accept that Paul spoke in tongues by himself. It is not that you can't believe it, but you choose not to believe it. That is the difference, and we could argue back and forth until the cows come home and not get anywhere.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is not a matter of contradicting scripture as it is we disagree on rightly dividing the word of truth so I leave you to His care as it is on Him to help you see the truth in His words as He is hated by the world because He exposes the works of darkness..

Mark 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Don't you understand if you contradict scripture, you are NOT rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I don't contradict one scripture, where you know you do and are stubborn about it. That is self-will.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That is up to you. I don't know why you won't budge on thinking you have a right to contradict scripture, but we will totally disagree on your right to do that.

Now, I am not suggesting that our friend is an atheist at all. I want to make that clear.

But the principle is similar. An atheist is one, not because he cannot believe in the existence of God, but he chooses not to believe, because he doesn't want anyone like God to judge him according to the life he wants to lead. He wants to lead his own life the way he wants, and a belief in the existence of God would have to involve that God being the judge of the way he is living his life. Therefore, there is no point trying to reason with an atheist, because he chooses to be who he is, and will argue with all the twists and turns of his chosen logic until he wears us down and we stop debating with him.

Therefore, when a person chooses to be Cessationist, and will not chose any alternative, he will argue his position even to the point of adapting Scripture in a way that supports his view. It is the same with those who subscribe to Word of Faith or the Prosperity doctrine. They choose to be that way, and have a full understanding of what we are trying to get across to them when we are refuting those doctrines from plain Scripture.

This is why Cessationists are adamant the "perfect" is the completed canon of Scripture, when Paul is clearly referring to the second coming of Christ. It is not that they don't understand it; and they might actually agree with it, but they choose to be Cessationist and use the obscure phrase as the nail to hang their hats on.

I am not meaning to be disrespectful to our Cessationist friends, but understanding why they are so adamant about it when there is no Scriptural support for it. One Cessationist teacher acknowledged that the Scripture is silent one way or the other, so he chooses the Cessationist side rather than the Continuist, because it suits his personal theology better.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Don't you understand if you contradict scripture, you are NOT rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I don't contradict one scripture, where you know you do and are stubborn about it. That is self-will.

Q.E.D. It is not a matter of misunderstand, but a matter of personal choice, and no amount of logical persuasion will change it, and the person to maintain his choice even to change the meaning of "but" to "always".

 

[CharismaticLady]

Q.E.D. It is not a matter of misunderstand, but a matter of personal choice, and no amount of logical persuasion will change it, and the person to maintain his choice even to change the meaning of "but" to "always".

And that is when they go from uninformed, to just plain ignorant. 1 Corinthians 14:38.

 

[Paul Christensen]

And that is when they go from uninformed, to just plain ignorant. 1 Corinthians 14:38.

This lines up with what Paul said"
"Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed" (1 Corinthians 12:1).
So, the whole point of Paul teaching about the Spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14 is to make people aware of what they are, and how they should be used.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This lines up with what Paul said"
"Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed" (1 Corinthians 12:1).
So, the whole point of Paul teaching about the Spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14 is to make people aware of what they are, and how they should be used.

And 1 Corinthians was written 15 years before Acts, so those reading Acts already knew about the gift of interpretation and how it worked, so could recognize that when the Spirit fell, the devout Jews who always believed in the Messiah received this supernatural hearing of interpretation of the tongues, and what each heard all the disciples speaking was their own individual language. They immediately responded to Peter's sermon. 1 Corinthians 14:2 already put to rest that the disciples were not actually speaking the languages of the devout Jews, but that is what they heard. Any other scenario contradicts scripture. But those who do not fear the Lord, don't care what His Word says, they believe their made up unscriptural theories to support their hatred and bigotry against tongues today.