Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[CharismaticLady]

Going for coffee. See y'all later.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So when Mormons speak in tongues you understand what you are saying?

If it's in a language I speak, yes.

Again, we're talking God giving a person the ability to speak in a known language, not Glossolalia.

 

[Enow]

Huh? This doesn't appear you understand that the initial receiving of the Holy Spirit (the phenomenon) is once and you just keep getting new fillings or anointings for additional gifts. Once you are born again, you have the ability to speak in tongues. You don't lose it.

There is no additional nor continual fillings of the Spirit because we are not leaky vessels. We are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we can testify with the Holy Spirit in us that we, the believers, have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is why He promised us we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled after we come to & believe in Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

By your testimony, you can't claim those 2 verses above for what Christ has done for you thus exposing that testimony of yours as not the real salvation moment, because you were saved much earlier than that but you just did not follow Him by faith but lived your life, sowing to the flesh..

So when you use tongues for prayer and not doing the will of God for you to pray, it is exchanging one sin for another for dominating your life.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Verse 16 is to exposing tongues for private use as believers wrest the scriptures of Paul's words to justify tongues for self edification when we are to go to the scriptures for that.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

What is the will of God as opposing the will of the devil in taking away your prayer time by praying in tongues?

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

So can you prove that tongue for prayer when it is not abstaining from all appearances of evil when it sounds the same as pagan's tongues? No.

 

[Enow]

First sentence, I agree.
From there on I'm confused. Question: "Set you free" from what? Following Him in your own strength? - I agree. Once you have the Spirit, the Spirit follows Him, and you walk in the Spirit. Having the Spirit is essential.

I always had the Holy Spirit in me since I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead. When a believer resorts to their own power, He will wait till they call on Him for help, but one can hope they learn from their mistake to rely on Him all the time for following Him.

Psalm 50:14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High: 15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me. 16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? 17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee. 18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. 19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.

What did the repentance of John the Baptist mean? Repentance from what? SIN. It is the same as in Acts 2:38, but now in order to follow Christ. When we repent from sin, Jesus answers that repentance by giving you the Holy Spirit who takes away all your sin, and even the desire by changing our nature - being born again of the Spirit. "He who the Son makes free (from sin) is free indeed. John 8:36. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Sinners can be saved by repenting from unbelief by believing in Him only. Now having received Him, they have power to live as His in living that life in repentance by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd.

This is true, we can't. But that is the whole reason for the initial filling of the Holy Spirit. We follow the Spirit. And Paul commands us to not quench the Spirit. That is so we will continue to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

No, in context, Paul is speaking about not despising prophesying; that is to say do not resist edifying others when led by the Spirit to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings.

That is the message in context when N.T. did not come with numbered chapters and numbered verses.

I think you must have missed one of my posts, or didn't understand it. I already said that I do not believe tongues is the "evidence" of being filled with the Spirit. Maybe you have me confused with someone else you are responding to. And it is you that do not understand, that we MUST be born again. That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The primary reason for this phenomena as you call it, is for receiving a new nature (born again) in order to have power to not sin. It is about freedom from sin from the power of the Holy Spirit, not will-power. Maybe you don't understand that following the Spirit is following Jesus. The Spirit doesn't just belong to Pentecostals, but they are the ones who are more informed about Him, and receive Him openly.

You credit your salvation moment to receiving what you believe was the filling of the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues even though you had been a professing believer for a long time. So like it or not, this sows doubts in believers' minds and think that they may not be really saved.

If one is led by the indwelling Holy Spirit, the focus will be on the Son, not on the Spirit. The Son is the Bridegroom by Whom we are to be intimate with God the Father by. There is no other way provided.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

It is one and the same
I already said in previous post tongues is NOT the evidence, though every believer has the ability, whether they use it or not.
It is not later on in your Christian walk. You must receive the Spirit to even BE a Christian. Otherwise you do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

Yeah.. see? That really doesn't help any professing believer to think otherwise that they need to have that same kind of salvation moment of receiving the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues or how else can they know? Which is why I am disagreeing with you totally. You were saved before that, sister, as that which you promote, whether you meant to or not, by all your words, you are preaching that to professing believers to doubt they are saved.

I totally agree, and what I have been saying about the Spirit all along given to us by Jesus.

Maybe if you should do what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do and that is to testify of Jesus Christ, to put the spotlight and focus on the Son, not Himself. So pointing professing but carnally driven believers to Jesus Christ for help all the time is the solution; not what you preach.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Like it or not, you are not preaching in going to Jesus as the solution, but seeking a filling of the Spirit by a sign of tongues which is not the same thing.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The devout Jews were still unbelievers at the time they were hearing His disciples speak in their native tongue, so no, they heard His disciples actually speak their native language.

In the assembly, it is through saved believers that the Holy Spirit will interpret tongues being manifested by Him through another saved believer. At no time does God's gift of tongues becomes a gibberish nonsense like pagan's tongues that someone thinks interpreting that kind of tongue is by getting the feel or the gist of what is said when that tongue is not of Him at all.

The gifts fell too. I understand that you do not think a nonbeliever in Jesus, though you forget they are believers in the Messiah, can be filled with the Spirit. But the Spirit is using His own gifts to draw God's devoted people, and in this case, the gift of interpretation of tongues. I've seen this happen today as it did back then. Of course, you will probably scoff at that. But it happened in Arizona. Saul of Tarsus actually had a supernatural encounter with Jesus before becoming a Christian, just as with those devout Jews received the supernatural, in order to believe. What the problem is, you are not understanding plain English in the way the Acts 2 account is written. Each (singular) heard them (plural - all of them). Can you imagine the way you believe it happened. 120 people all speaking 120 different languages, and one of them could pick out their individual language out of 120. That would be a cacophony of noise, and why the mockers only heard gibberish. But that is what you believe. No. Each person heard them like a choir, all speaking that person's language. Read it again. Not only was the speaking supernatural, but the hearing as well. You can't contradict scripture, but you refuse to believe 1 Corinthians 14:2 which plainly says they were speaking to God, not man, and that naturally, they would not be able to understand what was being said. You have to apply 1 Cor. 14 to Acts 2, not Acts 2 and forget 1 Cor. 14. What may be throwing you is the order the books are arranged, but 1 Corinthians was written and understood 15 years before Acts was written. The readers already knew all about the gift of interpretation of tongues and didn't need it spelled out for them when it was so obvious what happened.

In the assembly, it is through saved believers that the Holy Spirit will interpret tongues being manifested by Him through another saved believer. At no time does God's gift of tongues becomes a gibberish nonsense like pagan's tongues that someone thinks interpreting that kind of tongue is by getting the feel or the gist of what is said when that tongue is not of Him at all.

The Spirit is in charge, not you and your beliefs. The gifts belong to the Spirit, and though true Christians do have gifts, sometimes many, (do you?), the Spirit can draw people to Jesus with anything He possesses. I've seen it. With me, God gave me a supernatural vision BEFORE I received the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Explain that?

 

[CharismaticLady]

If it's in a language I speak, yes.

Again, we're talking God giving a person the ability to speak in a known language, not Glossolalia.

But you are calling speaking in a known language "speaking in tongues" which IS glossolalia. You need to call it something other than a biblical term which has a biblical definition. If God gave me a language I didn't study for, and I could suddenly speak and understand it fluently, that would be classed as a miracle, not speaking in tongues.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But you are calling speaking in a known language "speaking in tongues" which IS glossolalia. You need to call it something other than a biblical term which has a biblical definition. If God gave me a language I didn't study for, and I could suddenly speak and understand it fluently, that would be classed as a miracle, not speaking in tongues.

I was going off the term "glossolalia" being the... (pardon me I can't think of better way to say this) nonsensical babblings which some denominations practice.

Not God granting a person the ability to speak Hindi to share His Gospel with a Hindi person. And yes, such is a miraculous gift of the Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is no additional nor continual fillings of the Spirit because we are not leaky vessels. We are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we can testify with the Holy Spirit in us that we, the believers, have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

You're right. There is the initial receiving of the person of the Holy Spirit. What you don't understand is that it is not receiving Him all over again, but Him giving more power and additional gifts like additional anointings. That is what happens when Paul said to pray to interpret. Interpretation would be an additional gift you didn't have before. It is also one of the demonstrations of prophecy.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is why He promised us we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled after we come to & believe in Jesus Christ.

Apples and oranges. Matthew 9 of putting old wine (the Old Covenant law) into new wine skins (the New Covenant of the Spirit) had to do with covenants. In other words, the New Covenant is a completely new covenant; it is not a continuation of the old but adding the Spirit.

I agree with the second paragraph. Jesus fills us with Himself and He will never leave us. Jesus didn't sin because He had the seed of the Father in Him. That same seed is planted in us and we do not willfully sin. Emphasis on our will and knowledge of what we are doing. 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." God gives us the knowledge of sin BEFORE committing it, and gives us power to resist the devil.

One thing we haven't discussed which is more advanced, is the sin of trespass. As long as we love our neighbor and forgive them their trespasses against us while we are walking in the Spirit, then our own trespasses that we will continue to commit are cleansed by the continual cleansing of the blood of Jesus. These are NOT willful sins we have knowledge of committing. They are unintentional, and unknown to us. Jesus is our Advocate for this type of sin, but He is not our Advocate for willful sins of lawlessness committed after we have already been cleansed of our past sins when we first came to Him.

By your testimony, you can't claim those 2 verses above for what Christ has done for you thus exposing that testimony of yours as not the real salvation moment, because you were saved much earlier than that but you just did not follow Him by faith but lived your life, sowing to the flesh..

So when you use tongues for prayer and not doing the will of God for you to pray, it is exchanging one sin for another for dominating your life.

Enow, how can someone be "saved" and still sow to the flesh, when those who fulfill the lust of the flesh will never inherit the Kingdom of God? Those who fulfill the lust of the flesh instead of following Christ by His power are NOT saved. You are sadly mistaken if you actually teach that we can have our cake and eat it too. Jesus frees us from sin; we are no longer a slave to sin.

So when you use tongues for prayer and not doing the will of God for you to pray, it is exchanging one sin for another for dominating your life.

I'm not the one sinning, my friend. You are forbidding yourself to pray in the Spirit. BTW, can you speak in tongues? I don't think we've established that yet.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Equating "Babbling" to"speaking in tongues" is your definition, not Paul's. Paul means irreverent conversations and arguments that lead to more ungodliness. We are not doing that. We are both politely, so far, trying to teach each other our understanding of God's word. (I'm right, of course! LOL)

Verse 16 is to exposing tongues for private use as believers wrest the scriptures of Paul's words to justify tongues for self edification when we are to go to the scriptures for that.

For individual private use, praying in tongues is giving perfect prayer according to the perfect will of God. I don't know what you need, but I can still pray God's perfect will for you through this gift. And because the prayer use of Mark 16:17, prays God's most intimate will for you, I can't understand it, because, frankly, it is none of my business what He only knows about you.

The scriptures will not help you if you change the meaning. There are other gifts of the Spirit that God gives those who ask for them to perfectly understand the Authors meaning and rightly divide His Truth. And He never contradicts Himself. But your understanding and stubborn adherence to your own interpretation of Acts 2, even when shown that it contradicts 1 Corinthians 14:2 is a lack of the fear of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

I'm not the one twisting His words through Paul and contradicting Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

What is the will of God as opposing the will of the devil in taking away your prayer time by praying in tongues?

I only pray in tongues when I don't know God's will to pray in English. Can you pray for me exactly what God's will is for me today and be specific? What about yourself. Do you know God's perfect will for you to do today? Can you see the future?

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

That is easy for me to do, as I'm either asking questions or listening for the answer.

So can you prove that tongue for prayer when it is not abstaining from all appearances of evil when it sounds the same as pagan's tongues? No.

That is what an unsaved or uninformed person would say about a gift of God. I'm not saying you are saved, but you are certainly misinformed. Satan has counterfeited tongues in pagan societies, not the other way around. God is the creator, Satan just uses misdirection, and the uninformed fall for his devices and mock a true gift of God. (blasphemy)

 

[CharismaticLady]

nonsensical babblings which some denominations practice.

Other languages in, say, Africa or China, sound like nonsensical babblings to me, but I know they are actual languages. All languages have been created by God; none are fake. And God understands them all. I certainly would hesitate before declaring a gift of God that way, just as Gamaliel advised.

Acts 5:
38 And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”

God granting a person the ability to speak Hindi to share His Gospel with a Hindi person. And yes, such is a miraculous gift of the Spirit.

Yes, a miracle if sudden and supernatural. But can you see it is not the biblical speaking in tongues as on the Day of Pentecost?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Other languages in, say, Africa or China, sound like nonsensical babblings to me, but I know they are actual languages. All languages have been created by God; none are fake. And God understands them all. I certainly would hesitate before declaring a gift of God that way, just as Gamaliel advised.

Acts 5:
38 And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”



Yes, a miracle if sudden and supernatural. But can you see it is not the biblical speaking in tongues as on the Day of Pentecost?

With all due respect, when I read Act 2 and other scriptural passages, I don't see babbling. I see people being spoken to in their own native tongues.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Brother Paul,

Believers can pick up error along the way individually or by the church, and unless they are open to the Lord's words for proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil, we will never grow to be more fruitful in the Lord in our walk with Him, John 15:1-2 , but be at risk for resisting reproof and be cut off for remaining in iniquity.

The glaring appearance of evil you are ignoring is the evidence that pagan's tongues is the same as the tongues for private use when the real God's gift of tongues will never change mode from the one God intended it for, and that is to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people; 1 Corinthians 14:20-21

You may be on top of discerning slain in the spirit and holy laughter as not of Him, but the rudiment in how believers got that tongue is the same for why it is not coming with interpretation and for why it is the same as pagan's tongues.

The pagans never used their version of tongues for private use. It was always used as part of their temple ritual.

The sticking point, the question that is difficult to get around is that Paul says he speaks with tongues more than them all, but in the church he would rather speak clear language so that others can understand him. It is clear that he did most of his speaking in tongues away from the church. So, does this mean that Paul, speaking in tongues by himself and not among the other believers in church, was speaking pagan tongues? Because this is what you are saying - that anyone who speaks in tongues by himself and not among other believers for the purpose of interpretation, including Paul, is speaking pagan tongues. Therefore, are you saying that Paul is engaging in pagan worship when by himself, but in Christian worship with other believers?

You see, the phrase "but in the church" is the large elephant in the room here.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I always had the Holy Spirit in me since I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead. When a believer resorts to their own power, He will wait till they call on Him for help, but one can hope they learn from their mistake to rely on Him all the time for following Him.

Question: Do the demons know who Jesus is and that God raised Him from the dead? It takes more than that. It has to do with sin. Demons know yet are filled with sin. As Jesus said, he who sins is a slave to sin and not saved. But who the Son makes free, is free indeed. And does not willfully sin.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But the power is what you have been denying when you say we don't have to have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the seed of the Father, and we MUST have it to go to heaven.

Sinners can be saved by repenting from unbelief by believing in Him only. Now having received Him, they have power to live as His in living that life in repentance by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd.

Demons believe, yet sin. Repentance is from SIN. Unbelief is the same as disobedience. Belief in Jesus to FOLLOW Him, is obedience to His commandments to believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another. Oh, yeah, and demons don't know how to love. LOL

No, in context, Paul is speaking about not despising prophesying; that is to say do not resist edifying others when led by the Spirit to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings.

Did you know that the interpretation of what the tongues are saying can be interpreting prophecy? But prophecy can also be with our understanding without speaking in tongues. Prophecy is multi-faceted. Foretelling and forthtelling, also supernatural understanding of God's Word as Peter did by preaching on Joel 2 on the Day of Pentecost. (rightly dividing).

You credit your salvation moment to receiving what you believe was the filling of the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues even though you had been a professing believer for a long time. So like it or not, this sows doubts in believers' minds and think that they may not be really saved.

If one is led by the indwelling Holy Spirit, the focus will be on the Son, not on the Spirit. The Son is the Bridegroom by Whom we are to be intimate with God the Father by. There is no other way provided.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Evidently you do not believe in the Trinity, and understand that they are ONE.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Yeah.. see? That really doesn't help any professing believer to think otherwise that they need to have that same kind of salvation moment of receiving the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues or how else can they know? Which is why I am disagreeing with you totally. You were saved before that, sister, as that which you promote, whether you meant to or not, by all your words, you are preaching that to professing believers to doubt they are saved.

We may be crossing paths like ships in the night when I have said, a few times now, that I do not believe tongues is the outward "evidence." Again it is the outward ability to keep Christ's commandments from the power from Him on the inside. Gifts are given, but don't have to be demonstrated. That is the difference between me as a Charismatic, and a Pentecostal. Don't lump us all together.

Better to fill a student of false teachings with doubt so they can actually truly repent and be saved, than give them false assurance and let them burn in hell. Who is kinder?

Proverbs 27:5-6
5 Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Maybe if you should do what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do and that is to testify of Jesus Christ, to put the spotlight and focus on the Son, not Himself. So pointing professing but carnally driven believers to Jesus Christ for help all the time is the solution; not what you preach.

What I teach is complete with the condition, not just half the gospel of the covenant.

Romans 8:9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Jesus said you must be born again. That is of the Spirit!

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

See, even though the apostles had been with Christ from the beginning and believed on Him, Peter denied Him three times, Thomas doubted Him, and Judas betrayed Him. They needed the SPIRIT to give them power.

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Why do you preach against the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Do you somehow believe it is for only receiving tongues. NO! It is to receive POWER. Power not to deny Jesus, power not to deny Jesus, power not to betray Jesus, power not to SIN!

Like it or not, you are not preaching in going to Jesus as the solution, but seeking a filling of the Spirit by a sign of tongues which is not the same thing.

Oh, but I am, more than you. You refuse to honor His gift to us of His own sinless SPIRIT, just because you despise God's gifts.

 

[Enow]

The Spirit is in charge, not you and your beliefs.

The gifts belong to the Spirit, and though true Christians do have gifts, sometimes many, (do you?), the Spirit can draw people to Jesus with anything He possesses. I've seen it. With me, God gave me a supernatural vision BEFORE I received the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Explain that?

You are not to believe every spirit but test them.

The vision may have nothing to do with the other, but the infilling you had later coming with tongues from which you use for private use is not of Him. You could have very well received that vision from the Lord as long as it does not go against His words, but for you to abstain from all appearances of evil, you can't do that when you claim God's gift of tongues can also be for private use in being the same as the pagan's tongues and you gained that tongue by what you believe was the receiving of the Holy Spirit later on in your life as a professing believer for which you claim when you were saved.

I'd say you are mistaken and you had been saved before that time but did not rely on Jesus all the time to deliver you from living in sin.

Even I needed His help to rely on Him all the time in not sowing to the works of the flesh and to put my mind on good things. I am trusting Him to do it.

You are not discerning everything you went through by Him and still accrediting that phenomenon by tongues as to when you were saved and delivered from sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

With all due respect, when I read Act 2 and other scriptural passages, I don't see babbling. I see people being spoken to in their own native tongues.

It is hard to understand, granted. But read it with 1 Corinthians 12:10b in mind. "to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

They are always together in a group setting. Both of these are supernatural gifts.

1. The 120 were speaking supernatural languages of no one present (maybe even angels)
2. The devout Jews each heard all the disciples speaking their own individual language. The Parthians HEARD (INTERPRETED) all of them speaking in the Parthian language. While the Medes HEARD (INTERPRETED) all of them speaking in the Medes language. Each one HEARD a different language; their own. That is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works even today. Otherwise, tongues cannot be understood.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It is hard to understand, granted. But read it with 1 Corinthians 12:10b in mind. "to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

They are always together in a group setting. Both of these are supernatural gifts.

1. The 120 were speaking supernatural languages of no one present (maybe even angels)
2. The devout Jews each heard all the disciples speaking their own individual language. The Parthians HEARD (INTERPRETED) all of them speaking in the Parthian language. While the Medes HEARD (INTERPRETED) all of them speaking in the Medes language. Each one HEARD a different language; their own. That is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works even today. Otherwise, tongues cannot be understood.

I understand what you're saying and I understand why you're seeing things that way.

I just respectfully disagree with that interpretation.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are not to believe every spirit but test them.

And how do you suggest I test your spirit? You are blaspheming a gift of God and attributing it to pagans and Satan. And because I practice praying in tongues in private you believe I am displaying the appearance of evil. That is normal for you and exactly why Paul said to pray without ceasing, but in public around the unsaved or like you, the uninformed, we should not pray in tongues all at the same time. Why, because of your mocking and unbelief, causing judgment to fall on yourself. You see in 1 Corinthians 14:22, tongues being a sign to the unbeliever is a NEGATIVE sign. Why? Your mocking due to unbelief and not rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

The vision may have nothing to do with the other, but the infilling you had later coming with tongues from which you use for private use is not of Him.

See, you openly say tongues is not from God. Who then do YOU say they are from?

You could have very well received that vision from the Lord as long as it does not go against His words, but for you to abstain from all appearances of evil, you can't do that when you claim God's gift of tongues can also be for private use in being the same as the pagan's tongues and you gained that tongue by what you believe was the receiving of the Holy Spirit later on in your life as a professing believer for which you claim when you were saved.

You can't be saved and sin at the same time. Therefore, you cannot believe in Jesus and not have the Holy Spirit. I received the power of the Spirit long after I believed in Jesus; therefore I wasn't saved just by calling Him "Lord."

Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Just calling Jesus, Lord, doesn't mean you actually abide in Him, and He in you. That is what I am saying. You believe and teach that just because you call Him Lord you are saved. Those are the kisses of an enemy.

You are not discerning everything you went through by Him and still accrediting that phenomenon by tongues as to when you were saved and delivered from sin.

Are you reading my posts???? You have said "by tongues" a number of times. Are you trying to frustrate me so I'll commit a trespass. Well, I forgive you. So there!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I understand what you're saying and I understand why you're seeing things that way.

I just respectfully disagree with that interpretation.

Then without contradicting any scripture, tell me what you see happened.

 

[Enow]

You're right. There is the initial receiving of the person of the Holy Spirit. What you don't understand is that it is not receiving Him all over again, but Him giving more power and additional gifts like additional anointings.

That still comes off as denying His words of Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35. We are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we are accountable for what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit. To sow to the fruits of the Spirit is to look to Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin and trust Him to do His work in us in supplying the fruits of the Spirit. No more filling required.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I agree with the second paragraph. Jesus fills us with Himself and He will never leave us. Jesus didn't sin because He had the seed of the Father in Him. That same seed is planted in us and we do not willfully sin. Emphasis on our will and knowledge of what we are doing. 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." God gives us the knowledge of sin BEFORE committing it, and gives us power to resist the devil.

Newly saved believers not rooted in the word that err by just living their lives by the flesh as in run the way the world runs and not think anything of it, will reap corruption, thus not bearing fruit. They can become worse than they were before they were saved.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I was there; the church had rationalized sin, as they did not recognized it as sin, but Jesus has delivered me and is keeping me as His Friend; no extra filling of the Spirit required.

One thing we haven't discussed which is more advanced, is the sin of trespass. As long as we love our neighbor and forgive them their trespasses against us while we are walking in the Spirit, then our own trespasses that we will continue to commit are cleansed by the continual cleansing of the blood of Jesus. These are NOT willful sins we have knowledge of committing. They are unintentional, and unknown to us. Jesus is our Advocate for this type of sin, but He is not our Advocate for willful sins of lawlessness committed after we have already been cleansed of our past sins when we first came to Him.

Jesus is able and willing to pull any believer back from returning to his vomit when they call on Him to save them from their sins and to keep them from them. Again, no extra filling of the Spirit required, but a matter of reading His words with Him, learning of Him and all His promises to us for why we can live by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd and Friend to help us to follow Him.

If you can think of a deplorable state, which you had admitted to being in, then you know that the hope is in Jesus Christ to deliver you from your sins; not by doubting your salvation and looking for the receiving of the Holy Spirit by tongues.

Enow, how can someone be "saved" and still sow to the flesh, when those who fulfill the lust of the flesh will never inherit the Kingdom of God? Those who fulfill the lust of the flesh instead of following Christ by His power are NOT saved. You are sadly mistaken if you actually teach that we can have our cake and eat it too. Jesus frees us from sin; we are no longer a slave to sin.

It can happen when new believers do not root themselves in His words to know better. In Acts, His disciples had to tell Gentiles to abstain from fornication and to eat things strangled and from drinking blood because it was an everyday thing for them to do when they ran as the world did.

Churches and evangelicals are all up in converting unbelievers but not in discipling new believers in His words. That is why so many fall away in sin.

I'm not the one sinning, my friend. You are forbidding yourself to pray in the Spirit. BTW, can you speak in tongues? I don't think we've established that yet.

No. I do not have God's gift of tongues. I believe He has given me the gift of prophesy by having me recall scripture to pull up on a search engine at Bible Gateway to copy & paste that applies to our discussion, but He has to teach me His words and apply His wisdom in discerning good & evil by His words as kept in the KJV.

I only pray in tongues when I don't know God's will to pray in English. Can you pray for me exactly what God's will is for me today and be specific? What about yourself. Do you know God's perfect will for you to do today? Can you see the future?

If you do not know what you had prayed for, then how can you give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers? You can't. Better to pray normally and know what you had prayed for than to not know what you had prayed for by that tongue.

That is what an unsaved or uninformed person would say about a gift of God. I'm not saying you are saved, but you are certainly misinformed. Satan has counterfeited tongues in pagan societies, not the other way around. God is the creator, Satan just uses misdirection, and the uninformed fall for his devices and mock a true gift of God. (blasphemy)

I am saying you were saved before that moment you claimed you were saved at, and that moment you claimed you were saved at was not of Him at all, but only the Lord Jesus can help you see how that has directed your attention from the Son to the "spirit" that you think is the Holy Spirit. When He has returned you to your first love to rest in Him as always Spirit-filled and to pray normally so you can give genuine heartfelt praise and thanks to the Father in Jesus's name, and chase no more after spirits to receive after a sign... you may find your joy full.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That still comes off as denying His words of Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35. We are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we are accountable for what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit. To sow to the fruits of the Spirit is to look to Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin and trust Him to do His work in us in supplying the fruits of the Spirit. No more filling required.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.



Newly saved believers not rooted in the word that err by just living their lives by the flesh as in run the way the world runs and not think anything of it, will reap corruption, thus not bearing fruit. They can become worse than they were before they were saved.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I was there; the church had rationalized sin, as they did not recognized it as sin, but Jesus has delivered me and is keeping me as His Friend; no extra filling of the Spirit required.



Jesus is able and willing to pull any believer back from returning to his vomit when they call on Him to save them from their sins and to keep them from them. Again, no extra filling of the Spirit required, but a matter of reading His words with Him, learning of Him and all His promises to us for why we can live by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd and Friend to help us to follow Him.

If you can think of a deplorable state, which you had admitted to being in, then you know that the hope is in Jesus Christ to deliver you from your sins; not by doubting your salvation and looking for the receiving of the Holy Spirit by tongues.



It can happen when new believers do not root themselves in His words to know better. In Acts, His disciples had to tell Gentiles to abstain from fornication and to eat things strangled and from drinking blood because it was an everyday thing for them to do when they ran as the world did.

Churches and evangelicals are all up in converting unbelievers but not in discipling new believers in His words. That is why so many fall away in sin.



No. I do not have God's gift of tongues. I believe He has given me the gift of prophesy by having me recall scripture to pull up on a search engine at Bible Gateway to copy & paste that applies to our discussion, but He has to teach me His words and apply His wisdom in discerning good & evil by His words as kept in the KJV.



If you do not know what you had prayed for, then how can you give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers? You can't. Better to pray normally and know what you had prayed for than to not know what you had prayed for by that tongue.



I am saying you were saved before that moment you claimed you were saved at, and that moment you claimed you were saved at was not of Him at all, but only the Lord Jesus can help you see how that has directed your attention from the Son to the "spirit" that you think is the Holy Spirit. When He has returned you to your first love to rest in Him as always Spirit-filled and to pray normally so you can give genuine heartfelt praise and thanks to the Father in Jesus's name, and chase no more after spirits to receive after a sign... you may find your joy full.

Enow, I'll read this later. I need to eat something. Why don't you read the rest of my posts to you as I may have already answered your comments and you can edit this one.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Then without contradicting any scripture, tell me what you see happened.

Each person heard the word of God in their own tongue, by the power of God. Simple as that.

There's no mention of babbling or stuff like that. Just people hearing the word of God in their own tongue.