Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[CharismaticLady]

The problem here is that you point professing believers to seek to experience a phenomenon to help them overcome sin in their lives and yet scripture doesn't paint that as a solution for any believer when dealing with sins.

Are you kidding me? The ONLY way to overcome sin is by the Spirit. And you have to have the Holy Spirit to be born again. The old nature we inherited from Adam is full of sin. The only way not to sin is by getting out of that flesh/nature. You don't believe scripture says that, but it does.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Jesus makes us free from sin. How? By giving us His own Spirit. We are no longer sinners. We are children of God. He who keeps willfully sinning is a slave to sin and is of the devil. To become a Christian we must repent. True repentance is how to receive Christ's Spirit. That is why John the Baptist's ministry of repentance came first - to pave the way to the Christ.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Enow]

I have never said that the Baptism with the Spirit and the gifts are for developing sanctification in a believer. It is power for service, and not for overcoming personal sin. The point I am making is that we will never overcome personal sin until we die and are resurrected to glory.

Every person who is converted is indwelled with the Holy Spirit. That includes you and me regardless of our view concerning tongues and other spiritual gifts. It is the general indwelling of the Holy Spirit who works within us to develop our sanctification, not the enduement of power that the Baptism with the Spirit gives. For Christ's workmanship to conform us to the image of Him, it is the same Spirit who works in you and me to achieve that.

I know that there are Pentecostals who believe and teach that speaking in tongues assists the person to grow in grace more effectively than someone who doesn't. I am not one of them. I use the allusion to the motor mechanic. He has to study and be apprenticed to become qualified. Using his socket set does not contribute to that qualification, nor does it help him to develop expertise and experience. He has to have that first before he can use the tools effectively to do his job. We don't allow a untrained pilot to fly a commercial 747 airplane. Just being able to read a map or know his instruments don't make him a trained and qualified pilot.

In the same way, a person has to be a converted believer before he can use the gift of tongues, but just being able to pray or speak in tongues doesn't make him a better Christian. Growing in grace, maintaining faith in Christ, and depending on the Holy Spirit within him does that.

Paul, that post you replied to was to Charismatic Lady, not to you.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul, that post you replied to was to Charismatic Lady, not to you.

Doesn't stop me putting my oar in though!

 

[Enow]

Are you kidding me? The ONLY way to overcome sin is by the Spirit. And you have to have the Holy Spirit to be born again. The old nature we inherited from Adam is full of sin. The only way not to sin is by getting out of that flesh/nature. You don't believe scripture says that, but it does.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Jesus makes us free from sin. How? By giving us His own Spirit. We are no longer sinners. We are children of God. He who keeps willfully sinning is a slave to sin and is of the devil. To become a Christian we must repent. True repentance is how to receive Christ's Spirit. That is why John the Baptist's ministry of repentance came first - to pave the way to the Christ.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The difference between you and me is, I say to professing believer that they do have the Holy Spirit in them and they do have power to mortify the deeds of the body for why they need to go to Jesus Christ in prayer for help to discern the weights and to set them aside along with the sins.

Your way is denying that the Holy Spirit is already in them since they had first believed at the calling of the gospel. No matter how you slice it, they have to go to Jesus Christ for help; but your way actually leads them into apostasy.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Also, in my comparative study of Mormon, pagan, with genuine tongues, I found there is a vast difference. Mormon and pagan tongues are very ritualised and spoken as part of ceremonial incantations and sound more like the church Latin that used to be quoted in the early Catholic Mass (note this is not a comparison between spoken church Latin and pagan incantation!). But true tongues are spoken as personal prayer and worship to God and spoken in an attitude of love, joy, gentleness and self-control.

I have seen Hollywood movie pagan rituals where their version of tongues were spoken, and they were nothing like the type of tongues that I heard in the Pentecostal church. There is a vast difference which any Pentecostal would pick up right away. Pagan and Mormon tongues are never interpreted, and if they were, they would never point to having stronger faith in Christ, which true Pentecostal interpretations do.

The LDS Christian ("Mormon") take on the gift of tongues isn't ritualized or unknown speech at all. Rather, it's viewed as the ability to learning to speak in another language, particularly to spread the Gospel. Like a missionary learn to speak in Filipino to preach in the Philippines.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The difference between you and me is, I say to professing believer that they do have the Holy Spirit in them and they do have power to mortify the deeds of the body for why they need to go to Jesus Christ in prayer for help to discern the weights and to set them aside along with the sins.

Your way is denying that the Holy Spirit is already in them since they had first believed at the calling of the gospel. No matter how you slice it, they have to go to Jesus Christ for help; but your way actually leads them into apostasy.

I believed I had God's Spirit too for 30 years! What a lie the church teaches. You teach a half truth, because you don't know the condition. I was a professing Christian, but the difference between me and a true Christian was, I couldn't stop sinning! For six months I tried every month to give up my sin for Christ, and within three days I was right back where I started, just as you portray people you believe have the Spirit of God in them. But they don't, and I didn't either. Not if we still have to keep sinning. Finally, I cried out to Jesus and told Him that I wasn't going to try to stop sinning anymore. I was too weak. He was stronger than me, so for Him to take the object of my sin away from me so I couldn't keep sinning. Within one week He did just that. It was the very first prayer in all my life thus far that God answered. But now I was a total wreck! So I searched for a replacement to stop the pain and thought I found one. But God thwarted that too. I felt like God was punishing me, so I started asking Him "why" questions. And He immediately answered with a vision. And He gave me the meaning of the vision. Suddenly I knew what I needed to do that I had never truly done before, and that is completely repent. I asked Jesus to completely cleanse me and give me His strength. It was then that I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Up to then for 30 years He was merely drawing me, but He wasn't inside me, and He isn't in anyone who is still a slave to sin. It started at the top of my head and flowed through me to my feet, and I became lighter and lighter. I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the floor. All trace of the old nature was gone and all those desires to sin were gone immediately. Where the light is, no darkness can dwell.

You keep telling people to by faith do this and that in their own strength. It just doesn't work that way, and you've been taught a LIE! And now you keep spreading that lie further and further and tell people they don't need that "phenomena", but without it we don't belong to Christ! You believe you have the Spirit by faith. I thought I did too. Jesus only gives His Spirit to those who truly humble themselves, and see their weakness. Don't tell Jesus what you are going to do for Him. You must walk in the Spirit, but first have Him. Your way is to mortify the flesh in your own strength, and pretend it is the Spirit. And unfortunately there are millions in the church that still love darkness too much and have no power of the Spirit to stop sinning. My ministry is not to the unsaved in the world, but to the unsaved in the CHURCH. They may be forever in the process of being drawn by the Spirit to repent, but He is still knocking on the door to their hearts, just like I was for 30 years. I thank God I didn't die before the Spirit went from the outside to the inside.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The LDS Christian ("Mormon") take on the gift of tongues isn't ritualized or unknown speech at all. Rather, it's viewed as the ability to learning to speak in another language, particularly to spread the Gospel. Like a missionary learn to speak in Filipino to preach in the Philippines.

Hi Jane, long time no hear. Read 1 Corinthians 14:2. How does your church interpret that seeing it is the opposite of what you just said. My Mormon girlfriend said Mormons believe in speaking in tongues, but she failed to give me that definition. Silly me assumed she was talking about the supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit. Oh well!

I knew a Seventh-day Adventist preacher that believed what your church believes, and said he had the gift seeing as he spoke 3 languages.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The LDS Christian ("Mormon") take on the gift of tongues isn't ritualized or unknown speech at all. Rather, it's viewed as the ability to learning to speak in another language, particularly to spread the Gospel. Like a missionary learn to speak in Filipino to preach in the Philippines.

That might be the modern view of it, but not the historical.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That might be the modern view of it, but not the historical.

Pointing out I've been actively studying "Mormonism" for decades (active member).

Hi Jane, long time no hear. Read 1 Corinthians 14:2. How does your church interpret that seeing it is the opposite of what you just said. My Mormon girlfriend said Mormons believe in speaking in tongues, but she failed to give me that definition. Silly me assumed she was talking about the supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit. Oh well!

I knew a Seventh-day Adventist preacher that believed what your church believes, and said he had the gift seeing as he spoke 3 languages.

Acts 2:4-7

 

[CharismaticLady]

Pointing out I've been actively studying "Mormonism" for decades (active member).

Acts 2:4-7

But Jane, Acts 2:4-7 and 1 Corinthians 14:2 have to agree. They cannot contradict each other. Read further in Acts 2:

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone (singular) heard them (plural) speak in his own language. ... 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” , visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

The way Mormons teach this according to what you said, is that each of the 120 suddenly learned all these languages. Can you learn a language in an instant? At least, I thought you meant naturally learning languages, not supernaturally. Jump in and correct me if I misunderstood you.

But 1 Corinthians 14:2 says, "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

You said they preach to men, a contradiction. And that they would understand, another contradiction.

But Acts 2 does not contradict 1 Corinthians 14:2, the rule, if you read the Acts account correctly in light of the rule.

What was happening is that each devout Jew supernaturally heard THEM (plural, like a choir) supernaturally speak in their own individual language.

Parthians heard 120 of THEM speak his language, but
Medes heard 120 of THEM speak his language, and so on...

In other words, when the Holy Spirit fell, the gifts did too, and the devout Jews who already belonged to God each received supernatural interpretation of tongues.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The way Mormons teach this according to what you said, is that each of the 120 suddenly learned all these languages. Can you learn a language in an instant? .

With God, doing His work, it's totally possible.

All heard in thier.native language.
( will write more tomorrow )

 

[Enow]

I'm continuing my discussion with you on this, because I think you are sincere in what you believe, and you are remaining respectful, while giving me a run for my money!

I don't know how long you have been a Christian, but if you have been a believer, receiving Bible teaching from your pastor and mentors over a long period, and that teaching has been that early church tongues were limited to tongues and interpretation in church services. And your mentors were highly respected by you as true men of God, then I can understand that you are totally unwilling to accept anything else.

It is the same with me. I was discipled by an elderly, mature Pentecostal pastor whose background was Methodist Holiness, whom I respected to such a degree that a fellow believer told me that I had an intellectual bondage to that pastor's teaching and would not consider anything else. It is the same when I studied Puritan Calvinist teaching over many years, and so am totally committed to it to the point where I will argue night and day with anyone who tries to refute it.

So, I think that the foundational Bible teaching that we receive in our spiritual formative years becomes so much a part of our essential faith that to consider anything else would be a denial of what we believe Christ Himself, though our respected mentors have taught us. It is almost a denial of Christ to change our basic theology.

I found, after viewing Dave Hunt and John MacArthur's teaching on the Charismatic movement where they exposed the invasion of pagan mind control and the occult into its mainstream, my Pentecostal views got turned on their head. I had to go back to the Bible to check all this out, and found that many things I had done and supported were not found in the New Testament! Having to amend my views has been a very difficult process and I have had to give serious thought in separating the wheat from the chaff.

So, I went prayerfully to 1 Corinthians 14 and studied it verse by verse, even word by word, as well as reading several commentaries and the writing of the earliest church fathers. Because Calvin is someone that I totally believe to be correct about most things, I found that he said that tongues declined because of misuse and not through some decree of God. I also discovered that tongues and prophecy remained right through to the 12 Century in the Eastern Orthdodox church. Along with that, I read many testimonies of modern believers speaking in tongues languages they had never learned but foreign visitors understanding what was being spoken and testified that they were speaking the mighty works of God and praising Him.

So, the certainty of Scripture, the early church fathers, the weight of church historical evidence, and the sheer number of testimonies through the 20th century concerning the validity and truth of the gift of tongues, convinced me that in the midst of much misuse of it in the current Charismatic movement, there is the true gift and when it is spoken in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14, it certainly is of the Spirit and not of the flesh or the devil.

Also, in my comparative study of Mormon, pagan, with genuine tongues, I found there is a vast difference. Mormon and pagan tongues are very ritualised and spoken as part of ceremonial incantations and sound more like the church Latin that used to be quoted in the early Catholic Mass (note this is not a comparison between spoken church Latin and pagan incantation!). But true tongues are spoken as personal prayer and worship to God and spoken in an attitude of love, joy, gentleness and self-control.

I have seen Hollywood movie pagan rituals where their version of tongues were spoken, and they were nothing like the type of tongues that I heard in the Pentecostal church. There is a vast difference which any Pentecostal would pick up right away. Pagan and Mormon tongues are never interpreted, and if they were, they would never point to having stronger faith in Christ, which true Pentecostal interpretations do.

So I have made an exhaustive study over at least the last 40 years to come to the conclusions I have come to, which I think are more reliable than anyone who has visited a Pentecostal church a couple of times and based their opinion on that.

Brother Paul,

Believers can pick up error along the way individually or by the church, and unless they are open to the Lord's words for proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil, we will never grow to be more fruitful in the Lord in our walk with Him, John 15:1-2 , but be at risk for resisting reproof and be cut off for remaining in iniquity.

The glaring appearance of evil you are ignoring is the evidence that pagan's tongues is the same as the tongues for private use when the real God's gift of tongues will never change mode from the one God intended it for, and that is to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people; 1 Corinthians 14:20-21

You may be on top of discerning slain in the spirit and holy laughter as not of Him, but the rudiment in how believers got that tongue is the same for why it is not coming with interpretation and for why it is the same as pagan's tongues.

 

[Enow]

I believed I had God's Spirit too for 30 years! What a lie the church teaches. You teach a half truth, because you don't know the condition. I was a professing Christian, but the difference between me and a true Christian was, I couldn't stop sinning!

Whether you realize it or not, this is a set up for selling what you are promoting to carnal believers that they are not saved yet, as in not a true Christian, because they don't have the Holy Spirit in them for why they can't stop sinning.

For six months I tried every month to give up my sin for Christ, and within three days I was right back where I started, just as you portray people you believe have the Spirit of God in them. But they don't, and I didn't either. Not if we still have to keep sinning. Finally, I cried out to Jesus and told Him that I wasn't going to try to stop sinning anymore. I was too weak. He was stronger than me, so for Him to take the object of my sin away from me so I couldn't keep sinning. Within one week He did just that. It was the very first prayer in all my life thus far that God answered. But now I was a total wreck! So I searched for a replacement to stop the pain and thought I found one.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

But God thwarted that too. I felt like God was punishing me, so I started asking Him "why" questions. And He immediately answered with a vision. And He gave me the meaning of the vision. Suddenly I knew what I needed to do that I had never truly done before, and that is completely repent. I asked Jesus to completely cleanse me and give me His strength. It was then that I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Up to then for 30 years He was merely drawing me, but He wasn't inside me, and He isn't in anyone who is still a slave to sin. It started at the top of my head and flowed through me to my feet, and I became lighter and lighter. I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the floor. All trace of the old nature was gone and all those desires to sin were gone immediately. Where the light is, no darkness can dwell.

So you never sinned for the rest of your life? I am sure that is not what you are saying, but describing the moment of what you believe was deliverance from sin by that phenomenon. Addicts can testify to the same thing and when tongues ceased or they don't experience that phenomenon any more, they have been known to slip back to that sin that dominated their lives.

You keep telling people to by faith do this and that in their own strength.

Actually, no. It is one or the other. You either trust Him to help you or you are resorting to your own power to overcome sin and the latter cannot be done. This is a double-minded state that I was in because of trying my best to keep my commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. Every time I fail, I ask Him for help, and He does. Then I wanted to show my appreciation for helping me and I wind up trying to keep the commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. I was miserable because I was a yo yo in my walk with Him until He had set me free from that commitment, and all the promises and covenant I had made later on in life as a saved believer. He has always been with me, but I was not relying on Him all the time for following Him.

I learned that He has made The Covenant and that He will do it. All He had asked from me is to believe on Him. Narcotics Anonymous & Alcoholics Anonymous are doing the same thing, regardless of the "higher power" they had chosen. Other religions have the same, including Islam for that million man march in D.C. one time. It is after the rudiment of the world for why the altar call of Billy Graham's is not of Him at all as he promotes that if you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ. The fact that Billy Graham was a Freemason goes to show why he did not see anything wrong with that altar call.

So a lot of believers look at "Repent" in Acts 2:38 as meaning they have to repent from all sins when the only repentance the unbelieving Jews that had crucified Jesus was to repent from unbelief by believing in Him to receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So, yeah... I was not preaching repentance by your own strength at all to you when I have been saying to go to Jesus for help; as it is His strength and His power whereby one must rely on Him all the times for following Him, because we can't do it in our strength at all.

It just doesn't work that way, and you've been taught a LIE! And now you keep spreading that lie further and further and tell people they don't need that "phenomena", but without it we don't belong to Christ! You believe you have the Spirit by faith. I thought I did too. Jesus only gives His Spirit to those who truly humble themselves, and see their weakness. Don't tell Jesus what you are going to do for Him. You must walk in the Spirit, but first have Him. Your way is to mortify the flesh in your own strength, and pretend it is the Spirit. And unfortunately there are millions in the church that still love darkness too much and have no power of the Spirit to stop sinning. My ministry is not to the unsaved in the world, but to the unsaved in the CHURCH. They may be forever in the process of being drawn by the Spirit to repent, but He is still knocking on the door to their hearts, just like I was for 30 years. I thank God I didn't die before the Spirit went from the outside to the inside.

You were and still are unaware of that double-minded state for trying to resist sin in your own strength and so you are taking a phenomenon by a sign of tongues as the means for overcoming a particular habitual sin in your life when unwittingly, you just traded one sin for another ( apostasy ).

Indeed, when it comes to addiction, reports that believers go back to drunkenness by alcohol and their highs by drugs of what that phenomenon has been bringing but stopped, is why there is no true deliverance there.

So mortifying sin by the Spirit is not accomplished by seeking a filling of the Spirit by the evidence of tongues later in life as a professing believer.

I had shown scripture to you in another post for why going to Jesus and relying on Him all the time for His help through the Holy Spirit in you since you had first believed is how any one can overcome sin that has been dominating them in their lives. Only Jesus can help you see your errors and the truth in His words.

 

[CharismaticLady]

All heard in thier.native language.

Yes, they HEARD. But it was supernatural hearing, not natural. Supernatural hearing is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works so the person with the gift can understand in order to give the interpretation.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes, they HEARD. But it was supernatural hearing, not natural. Supernatural hearing is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works so the person with the gift can understand in order to give the interpretation.

I'm not sure what's the distinction is you're defining between "natural" and "supernatural" here.

The gift of tongues is a gift from God: it's not you doing things under your own power.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not sure what's the distinction is you're defining between "natural" and "supernatural" here.

The gift of tongues is a gift from God: it's not you doing things under your own power.

But you defined it as "naturally learning a new language to preach to foreigners." 1 Corinthians 14:2 is the definition. You are not learning a new language that man can understand. God is giving you a language that only He can understand. And the human hearer can only understand by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But you defined it as "naturally learning a new language to preach to foreigners."1 Corinthians 14:2 is the definition. You are not learning a new language that man can understand. God is giving you a language that only He can understand. And the human hearer can only understand by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues.

I['m not sure where you're getting this impression. This learning (or just speaking) is done by the gift of God, not a person's solo power. It is to learn/speak in a real (native) language (Hindi, Spanish, ASL, etc), as opposed to Glossolalia.

Understanding does require the Spirit, but that's because all of God's things need to be understood through God's Spirit. Even if it's just two native English speakers chatting about things in English.

 

[Enow]

Yes, they HEARD. But it was supernatural hearing, not natural. Supernatural hearing is how the gift of interpretation of tongues works so the person with the gift can understand in order to give the interpretation.

The devout Jews were still unbelievers at the time they were hearing His disciples speak in their native tongue, so no, they heard His disciples actually speak their native language.

In the assembly, it is through saved believers that the Holy Spirit will interpret tongues being manifested by Him through another saved believer. At no time does God's gift of tongues becomes a gibberish nonsense like pagan's tongues that someone thinks interpreting that kind of tongue is by getting the feel or the gist of what is said when that tongue is not of Him at all.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Whether you realize it or not, this is a set up for selling what you are promoting to carnal believers that they are not saved yet, as in not a true Christian, because they don't have the Holy Spirit in them for why they can't stop sinning.

Addicts can testify to the same thing and when tongues ceased or they don't experience that phenomenon any more, they have been known to slip back to that sin that dominated their lives.

Huh? This doesn't appear you understand that the initial receiving of the Holy Spirit (the phenomenon) is once and you just keep getting new fillings or anointings for additional gifts. Once you are born again, you have the ability to speak in tongues. You don't lose it.

You either trust Him to help you or you are resorting to your own power to overcome sin and the latter cannot be done.

This is a double-minded state that I was in because of trying my best to keep my commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. Every time I fail, I ask Him for help, and He does. Then I wanted to show my appreciation for helping me and I wind up trying to keep the commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. I was miserable because I was a yo yo in my walk with Him until He had set me free from that commitment, and all the promises and covenant I had made later on in life as a saved believer. He has always been with me, but I was not relying on Him all the time for following Him.

First sentence, I agree.
From there on I'm confused. Question: "Set you free" from what? Following Him in your own strength? - I agree. Once you have the Spirit, the Spirit follows Him, and you walk in the Spirit. Having the Spirit is essential.

So a lot of believers look at "Repent" in Acts 2:38 as meaning they have to repent from all sins when the only repentance the unbelieving Jews that had crucified Jesus was to repent from unbelief by believing in Him to receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What did the repentance of John the Baptist mean? Repentance from what? SIN. It is the same as in Acts 2:38, but now in order to follow Christ. When we repent from sin, Jesus answers that repentance by giving you the Holy Spirit who takes away all your sin, and even the desire by changing our nature - being born again of the Spirit. "He who the Son makes free (from sin) is free indeed. John 8:36. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

So, yeah... I was not preaching repentance by your own strength at all to you when I have been saying to go to Jesus for help; as it is His strength and His power whereby one must rely on Him all the times for following Him, because we can't do it in our strength at all.

This is true, we can't. But that is the whole reason for the initial filling of the Holy Spirit. We follow the Spirit. And Paul commands us to not quench the Spirit. That is so we will continue to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

You were and still are unaware of that double-minded state for trying to resist sin in your own strength and so you are taking a phenomenon by a sign of tongues as the means for overcoming a particular habitual sin in your life when unwittingly, you just traded one sin for another ( apostasy ).

I think you must have missed one of my posts, or didn't understand it. I already said that I do not believe tongues is the "evidence" of being filled with the Spirit. Maybe you have me confused with someone else you are responding to. And it is you that do not understand, that we MUST be born again. That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The primary reason for this phenomena as you call it, is for receiving a new nature (born again) in order to have power to not sin. It is about freedom from sin from the power of the Holy Spirit, not will-power. Maybe you don't understand that following the Spirit is following Jesus. The Spirit doesn't just belong to Pentecostals, but they are the ones who are more informed about Him, and receive Him openly.

So mortifying sin by the Spirit is not accomplished by seeking a filling of the Spirit by the evidence of tongues later in life as a professing believer.

It is one and the same
I already said in previous post tongues is NOT the evidence, though every believer has the ability, whether they use it or not.
It is not later on in your Christian walk. You must receive the Spirit to even BE a Christian. Otherwise you do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

I had shown scripture to you in another post for why going to Jesus and relying on Him all the time for His help through the Holy Spirit in you since you had first believed is how any one can overcome sin that has been dominating them in their lives. Only Jesus can help you see your errors and the truth in His words.

I totally agree, and what I have been saying about the Spirit all along given to us by Jesus.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I['m not sure where you're getting this impression. This learning (or just speaking) is done by the gift of God, not a person's solo power. It is to learn/speak in a real (native) language (Hindi, Spanish, ASL, etc), as opposed to Glossolalia.

Understanding does require the Spirit, but that's because all of God's things need to be understood through God's Spirit. Even if it's just two native English speakers chatting about things in English.

So when Mormons speak in tongues you understand what you are saying?