Palestinian position on peace with Israel

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veteran

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Based on that article, looks like a lot more strife is going to come upon the Islamic peoples. Not sure if that article reveals the true political climate though, because there's things happening today upon western peoples that they don't agree with either, yet they're being forced to live with it (i.e., the building of Islamic mosques upon American and European soil, lands that have been traditionally Christian for centuries. Obama has agreed to that part too).

My guess is that a lot more Palestinians are willing to agree to peace with the hopes of one day being able to destroy Israel off the map. That study only shows in their 'hearts' they are not for peace with Israel. Doesn't mean they won't ever agree with the New World Order's plans for a joint Israel-Palestine state.
 

Foreigner

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Since prophesy states the Jewish Temple is going to be rebuilt, it is likely that eventually some sort of agreement will be reached.
Either that or a military action beforehand ends with the removal of objections.
 

aspen

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I thought our bodies were temples? Jesus has a body that rose again on the third day.
 

Rach1370

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If God gave it to them the 'Islamic people' it must be so because who other could it of been for 2000 years ?
I don't think that Jews have any real right to push people living on the land out at all.
But i think true Israel that is true Christian people would not push anyone out, but they would help bring about love and understanding between all people to the glory of God.
Jesus said that what you do to others you do to him.
Violence is not the way and never was, as it is always the work of the Devil.
Only Jesus Christ is the way and in him only we can have the faith to move mountains.

If we wanna go the route of who was there first, isn't that like getting into the 'chicken or egg' debate??
I agree that at the moment true 'Israel' is the church, but I just don't think we can discount that God may indeed bring national Israel back to him (and by that I mean through Christ, not through a re-establishing of the old covenant).
I'm not so very passionate on the whole "Israel has to be in the land", but as national Israel has banded together again after so many years of persecution etc...it just makes sense to me that they would have Israel (the land). It IS their national land. And even if God does not have something in the works for them, they deserve the right to defend themselves against annihilation. It amazes me how much the world complains whenever Israel does protect themselves, but if such actions had been taken against them and their country, all war would break out. Oh wait...that's already happened!
 

veteran

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If we wanna go the route of who was there first, isn't that like getting into the 'chicken or egg' debate??
I agree that at the moment true 'Israel' is the church, but I just don't think we can discount that God may indeed bring national Israel back to him (and by that I mean through Christ, not through a re-establishing of the old covenant).
I'm not so very passionate on the whole "Israel has to be in the land", but as national Israel has banded together again after so many years of persecution etc...it just makes sense to me that they would have Israel (the land). It IS their national land. And even if God does not have something in the works for them, they deserve the right to defend themselves against annihilation. It amazes me how much the world complains whenever Israel does protect themselves, but if such actions had been taken against them and their country, all war would break out. Oh wait...that's already happened!

The holy land, especially Jerusalem, belongs to God. It is where He said He will dwell forever. Israel will inherit, as He also said in final He's going to sift the house of Israel from the nations like corn in a sieve, and not the least grain will fall to the ground (Amos 9).

Problem is though, lot of the people claiming to be of Israel today... are not of His chosen Israel, not by birth for they are foreigners from the Canaanite nations, and of the seed of Esau. The "synagogue of Satan" is in possession of the holy lands and Jerusalem today, which is why those intend to build another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. Those are preparing the world for 'their' king, a false king, and the devout Jews there don't have a clue about it. Neither do many of my Christian brethren know, even though our Lord Jesus and His Apostles and prophets warned about those future tribulation events of a false messiah coming there prior to Christ's return.



 

lawrance

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If we wanna go the route of who was there first, isn't that like getting into the 'chicken or egg' debate??
I agree that at the moment true 'Israel' is the church, but I just don't think we can discount that God may indeed bring national Israel back to him (and by that I mean through Christ, not through a re-establishing of the old covenant).
I'm not so very passionate on the whole "Israel has to be in the land", but as national Israel has banded together again after so many years of persecution etc...it just makes sense to me that they would have Israel (the land). It IS their national land. And even if God does not have something in the works for them, they deserve the right to defend themselves against annihilation. It amazes me how much the world complains whenever Israel does protect themselves, but if such actions had been taken against them and their country, all war would break out. Oh wait...that's already happened!
No one is saying they don't have the right to defend them selfs. and i am not against any race but only the works of Satan.

I agree with veteran that what he said is true.
 

Foreigner

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Rach, I appreciated your reasoned input on this subject.

It is amazing that Mr. R and Veteran feel qualified to comment on the "quality" or "Jewishness" of the Jews currently living in Israel.

Their actual lineage and what is in the hearts of all the Jews living there is somehow miraculously know to them.

Gosh, the Lord does indeed move in mysterious ways. ;)
 

veteran

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Rach, I appreciated your reasoned input on this subject.

It is amazing that Mr. R and Veteran feel qualified to comment on the "quality" or "Jewishness" of the Jews currently living in Israel.

Their actual lineage and what is in the hearts of all the Jews living there is somehow miraculously know to them.

Gosh, the Lord does indeed move in mysterious ways. ;)


There's always been a small remnant of true Judah in that area, as per God's promise to David and to Jerusalem. Everything I said is Biblically accurate. Foreigners began creeping in among Judah centuries ago, and many of them went into the Babylon captivity along with the house of Judah, and then returned to Jerusalem to help build the second temple and Jerusalem. The rest, the majority of the house of Judah stayed in Babylon during that remnant's return, and then those of them in Babylon were furthered scattered through the countries (Ezek.3-6). This is one of the mysteries in God's Word. The period of history about that area of Jerusalem from the end of the OT Books to Christ's first coming and the NT Books is filled in by the Jewish historian Josephus. He specifically pointed out those foreigners that had crept into Judah's stay through that history. Clearly you haven't studied this, otherwise you might have known what you're talking about.


There's still a small remnant of true Judah there today, but they do not make up the majority.
 

veteran

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If we wanna go the route of who was there first, isn't that like getting into the 'chicken or egg' debate??
I agree that at the moment true 'Israel' is the church, but I just don't think we can discount that God may indeed bring national Israel back to him (and by that I mean through Christ, not through a re-establishing of the old covenant).
I'm not so very passionate on the whole "Israel has to be in the land", but as national Israel has banded together again after so many years of persecution etc...it just makes sense to me that they would have Israel (the land). It IS their national land. And even if God does not have something in the works for them, they deserve the right to defend themselves against annihilation. It amazes me how much the world complains whenever Israel does protect themselves, but if such actions had been taken against them and their country, all war would break out. Oh wait...that's already happened!

Another problem with not understanding what the conflict over Jerusalem is about is by not understanding history in God's Word. Ultimately, Satan is who wants to possess Jerusalem. God is going to let Satan come and play God there, which is going to teach all people that refuse to listen to God in His Word, just Who The True God is. As certain as we are breathing air right now, that event is going to happen, for it is written.

About the idea of 'National Israel'. Just who is that today? The majority of the seed of Israel were the ten tribes. They did not call themselves Jews. The Jews originated from the house of Judah per God's Word, which was concerning only 3 tribes of Israel. The majority of the seed of Israel (ten tribes) were scattered to the West, and became the western Christian nations. That means, the majority... of Christians in the west are also National Israel, because they have a heritage as literal Israel, though that heritage has been lost to them.

The false idea that Jews only are the literal seed of Israel is propaganda by the children of darkness that have crept in among them, and try to steal Israel's Birthright from God. And God's Birthright IS what the Palestinians are in battle against Israel about. It's because of Ishmael, the firstborn of Abraham and Sarah's handmaiden Hagar. They feel Israel cheated them out of the Birthright, so that's why they want to destroy Israel. Idumeans (Esau) are allied with the sons of Ishmael (Arab), because Esau felt cheated also by Jacob concerning God's Birthright.

God kept His Promises to Israel. He sent them His Saviour, and the majority of them believed, meaning the ten tribes that founded the western Christian nations. It was the majority of the Jews that refused The Saviour, and still is. But that doesn't mean the ten lost tribes stopped being the majority of the seed of National Israel, even though they lost knowledge of their own Israelite heritage while the Jews did not. This is why God's Birthright promises to National Israel can be found in the Christian west per history, and not in Jerusalem.

God's enemies aren't stupid, they understand this, which is why the Christian west is just as much under attack by Ishmael and Esau today. Biggest problem is that many of you here are from the descendants of the ten lost tribes of Israel, and you don't understand this, nor why we're under the same attack as the Jews in the state of Israel today. If the majority of ten tribe Israelites in the west did understand this, it might change God's Plan for the end of this world. I am totally confident that everyone will eventually know this matter, but not until Christ's return.
 

Foreigner

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There's still a small remnant of true Judah there today, but they do not make up the majority.

-- By your own words there are still remnants of "true Judah" there today. These people have a scriptural, legal and historical claim to the area.
So those who legally have the right to the nation of Israel are indeed inhabiting Israel.
Those 'usurpers' you speak of matter not. Why? Because they were going to come along for the ride anyway, if for no other reason that to fulfill end of time prophecy.

I am of the opinion - and in agreement with Rach - that the very fact that Israel stands today as an independent, recognized nation, is a miracle in and of itself. The miraculous victories they have enjoyed - outnumbered, outgunned, out maneuvered on a HUGE scale on several occasions - indicates that God's hand is in the creation and continued existance of this Israel.

That makes your comments on the 'usurpers' moot. True Jews have returned from around the world. If all do not meet a purity standard, so what?
Those that are the true Jews - God's chosen people - are the ones that make the nation of Israel today what it is.
 

veteran

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-- By your own words there are still remnants of "true Judah" there today. These people have a scriptural, legal and historical claim to the area.

Yes, those truly of God's people there do. But that's by no means is about all of them that call themselves Jews. If you'll do some simple research on info about Jewish migrations to the state of Israel, you'll find distinctions the Jews themselves make about separate groups among them, some being Sephardic Jews and others being Ashkenazi Jews. One group of those do not look upon the other as blood authentic, simply because other nations like Khazar accepted the religion of Judaism long ago, and began calling theirselves Jews. Many Jews in Ethiopia do the same, and they're not even of the same people as the tribe of Judah. Sorry, but the reality today is there are mixed people among the Jews today, and the Jewish people with an ancient heritage from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi know this. Otherwise the orthodox Jews that want to build another temple would not have taken pains to use DNA research in finding priests from the bloodline of Levi.


So those who legally have the right to the nation of Israel are indeed inhabiting Israel.
Those 'usurpers' you speak of matter not. Why? Because they were going to come along for the ride anyway, if for no other reason that to fulfill end of time prophecy.

Are you trying to make an affirmation with that, or asking a question? You actually hit the nail on the head with that "to fulfill end of time prophecy". There's a negative side to God's Plan of Salvation that is at work for this present world, and the "crept in unawares" are part of it, as we were told in the Book of Jude.

If you'll begin in Genesis and study forward with the nations and peoples that began early on creeping in among Israel, you'll understand this matter, instead of having to rely on a bunch of propaganda from today's pop media and books, and their servants that have crept into many Churches. God's Word has the first and the final say, and that's where I preach this from. The historical part simply confirms God's Word. Problem is, there's a lot of Revisionist history out there today designed to counter what God's Word shows about it.

An example:

1 Chr 2:55
55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
(KJV)

Most are taught to think of those scribes that our Lord Jesus rebuked as Jews of God's people Israel. Yet per God's Word right there, He reveals they were not of Israelite birth at all, but of the peoples called Kenites, a people that dwelt among the Canaanite nations per the end of Genesis 15. In Judges 2 & 3, God rebukes the 12 tribes of Israel for not destroying all the peoples of Canaan that He pronounced His sentence upon. As written there, those Canaanites dwelt among the Israelites, and God said He would make them a snare upon Israel.


IKing 9:19-22
19 And all the cities of store that Solomon had, and cities for his chariots, and cities for his horsemen, and that which Solomon desired to build in Jerusalem, and in Lebanon, and in all the land of his dominion.
20 And all the people that were left of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, which were not of the children of Israel,
21 Their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bondservice unto this day.

22 But of the children of Israel did Solomon make no bondmen: but they were men of war, and his servants, and his princes, and his captains, and rulers of his chariots, and his horsemen.
(KJV)

Whoah! What's those peoples of the nations of Canaan still doing there among Israel??? By the time the Book of Chronicles was written, those had become known as Nethinims, which is term applied to temple servants. It means eventually they worked their up into doing menial duties inside the temple, a place they were not supposed to be allowed per God's commandment.

Ezra 2:58-62
58 All the Nethinims, and the children of Solomon's servants, were three hundred ninety and two.
59 And these were they which went up from Telmelah, Telharsa, Cherub, Addan, and Immer: but they could not shew their father's house, and their seed, whether they were of Israel:
60 The children of Delaiah, the children of Tobiah, the children of Nekoda, six hundred fifty and two.
61 And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:
62 These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
(KJV)

How did those peoples of foreign blood even MAKE IT INTO THE PRIESTHOOD to begin with??? After the return of a small remnant of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, these bondservants in Solomon's days that went into the Babylon captivity with the house of Judah, also returned with that small Israelite remnant to Jerusalem to build the second temple and Jerusalem. In Ezra 8, he had to send back to Babylon to get real Levite priests, because the priests that returned were NOT of Israelite origin. Guess who Ezra sent back to Babylon to find Levite priests? He sent the Iddo, the head of the Nethinims (foreigners of leftover Canaanites).

Does this help explain how the priesthood of Israel and the scribe office fell into such corruption in prep for the time of our Lord Jesus' first coming? YES! Our Lord Jesus told you about this in His parable of the tares of the field, if you'd only listen to Him. I don't cover this to try and slight our brother Judah, but as a direct warning to them to be careful who and what they follow. But why would they listen to me, a Christian about this anyway? They obviously haven't listened to God in His Word about it.


I am of the opinion - and in agreement with Rach - that the very fact that Israel stands today as an independent, recognized nation, is a miracle in and of itself. The miraculous victories they have enjoyed - outnumbered, outgunned, out maneuvered on a HUGE scale on several occasions - indicates that God's hand is in the creation and continued existance of this Israel.

That it came to pass, I see as Bible prophecy for the end, and a major pointer to us Christians to mark the times. But do I see it as proof of Christ's Kingdom? No, of course not. The victories they have had come from God's Hand, for His Sake, not theirs. God promised David and Jerusalem He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem, and He's done that. But don't think for a minute that means He's pleased with their refusing His Son Jesus Christ, like the majority there do. He's not going to be pleased with their building another temple to start up the Old Covenant sacrifices and worship either! That's why He is going to send them a false messiah to bow in false worship to, because they are still rebellious against Him and His Son (John 5:43). Per isaiah 28, God isn't pleased with those of His people there that allow themselves to be deceived by the "crept in unawares" either, as He calls what they're doing make a covenant with death (involves their worship in ignorance to the coming false messiah).


That makes your comments on the 'usurpers' moot. True Jews have returned from around the world. If all do not meet a purity standard, so what?

You can think it is moot, but God's Word and history shows different than what you WANT to believe from the world's propaganda outlets. SOME returning are of the true House of Judah. Lot of others are not. And the SAME "crept in unawares" that had our Lord Jesus crucified are STILL sitting in Moses' seat like Christ said at His first coming.

Concerning the purity standard you mention, that has nothing to do with those who have believed on Christ Jesus. But don't think for a minute it has nothing to do with the beliefs of orthodox Judaism! And that's who we're talking about here, not us Christians. Orthodox Jews still believe in the Old Covenant, even though they follow the religion of the crept in unawares that have crept in among them. They won't realize this until Christ returns. That's when the devout ones among them will cry in shame because they truly intend to obey our Heavenly Father and do His Will. That's when they'll discover how the "crept in unawares" bewitched them.

Those that are the true Jews - God's chosen people - are the ones that make the nation of Israel today what it is.

No, not really. It's the United Nations that have made them what they are today as a state under U.N. protection through the nations coming to their aid, like the U.N. Charter vote nations did in voting to create that state. Or haven't you noticed when radical Islam sends rockets upon the Israeli, Israel eventually has enough and sends its troops over its borders against them, taking territory they eventually are FORCED to give back up because of the U.N. controls? Few years ago, the U.N. forced Israel to move completely out of towns that were agreed to be Palestinian territories by the U.N. Charter.

Just as Daniel and his brethren were protected by the king of Babylon during their captivity, so it is today with the state of Israel being protected by the gloabalist working through the U.N., i.e., the modern Babylon system of today.
 

Foreigner

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No, not really. It's the United Nations that have made them what they are today as a state under U.N. protection through the nations coming to their aid, like the U.N. Charter vote nations did in voting to create that state. Or haven't you noticed when radical Islam sends rockets upon the Israeli, Israel eventually has enough and sends its troops over its borders against them, taking territory they eventually are FORCED to give back up because of the U.N. controls? Few years ago, the U.N. forced Israel to move completely out of towns that were agreed to be Palestinian territories by the U.N. Charter.


-- Actually, you couldn't be more wrong.

First off, Israel was brought back into existance via God's direct intervention. You saw the chess pieces being moved, but missed the Chessmaster.

And the very fact that they still exist today, even after multiple genocide attempts by armies of nations that outnumbered them several times over also shows God's intervention.

As far as Israel being, "A state under UN protection," where was the UN during the three seperate attempts by neighboring nations to wipe Israel off the map in '48, '67 and '73? Don't remember seeing any blue helmets fighting for the Israelis or forcing the aggressors to stop.

Where were they when incursions and rocket attacks were being launched on Israel from southern Lebanon?
Sure, they put blue helmets there for "observation" later on, but the attacks didn't cease.
(The last time Israel went into Lebanon, Hamas and Hezbollah had been firing rockets into Israel from behind UN observation posts.)

And where were they when terrorists started kidnapping Israeli soldiers, launching rocket attacks on Israeli civilian centers, and sending suicide bombers to Israeli market places?

Oh, they eventually show up....to tell Israel how wrong they were for taking steps to defend themselves after the international community refuses to do anything.

And News Flash! the UN didn't "force" Israel to give back anything. Israel gave back what was taken by choice and not force. And only AFTER the UN promised to assist with a peacekeeping presence and monitoring.

But let's pretend what you say is true. Why didn't the UN "force" Jordan to give up the West Bank and East Jerusalem when they took them in '48 and later annexed them? Didn't belong to them. They didn't offer the land to the Palestinians once they took it. They annexed it for themselves.

And why hasn't the UN forced Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon to let the Palestinians out of their camps and give them freedom to move about their countries? Instead, they live in squalor, prisoners of their Arab brothers.

Since the UN accepted Israel into their organization, they have been anything but a friend to them.

There have been over 300 UN general assembly resolutions against Israel.
Against the Middle East countries (including Iran) - less than one-tenth that number, total.

Israel is also the only nation never to be allowed to sit on the UN Security Council. Why is that if the UN is such a good friend?



Just as Daniel and his brethren were protected by the king of Babylon during their captivity, so it is today with the state of Israel being protected by the gloabalist working through the U.N., i.e., the modern Babylon system of today.

-- And WHY were Daniel and his bretheren protected by the king?
Three words: God's Direct Intervention
Dietary test showing they were in even better health than those fed with the kings food.
Daniel walking out of the lions den.
Sharach, Meshach, Abenego being visited while in the fiery furnace.

That was God's protection. The king had nothing to do with that.

You want to compare that to your "globalists working through the UN to protect Israel?"

LOL Oh, please...
 

Rach1370

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Have you seen the news? Once again Israel has suffered an attack. Once again it's lost civilians...a baby. Honestly, when it comes down to it, I just don't care about 'prophecy' or 'chosen people'. Whatever. God in control of all that. But come on people...it's just plain clear that the tactics of the Palestinian people...be it Hamas or Hezbollah, whoever...they're just evil. They just want to hurt the Jews. They want them all dead, so they just don't care about killing women, or children. This is not the first time, it won't be the last. Perhaps we should try and remember the families and the babies when we argue about who has the right to be doing what they are doing? Does it matter if the Jews are a 'bastardised race' of Jews? They're still people, and they're under constant threat of genocide...of annihilation.
 

veteran

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-- Actually, you couldn't be more wrong.

First off, Israel was brought back into existance via God's direct intervention. You saw the chess pieces being moved, but missed the Chessmaster.

No, I'm not wrong. I didn't forget that God promised to establish Judah again in the land per Jeremiah 24. True Judah represents the good basket of figs in that prophecy. The U.N. Charter vote to create today's state of Israel in 1948 is one of the matters that prophecy was about. So of course our Heavenly Father was ultimately behind that. Yet that promise was specifically for Judah, and the foreigners among them (the evil basket of figs per Jer.24). It was NOT for all of Israel, like the ten tribes and many of Judah that still choose to dwell outside that state today. In other words, that was NOT about the 'two sticks' of Ezek.37 being put back together as in Israel's days of old which is promised. The ten tribes of the house of Israel have still yet to return to the holy lands as a people. (Even Jewish rabbi admit this today).

It sounds like you also fail to see that God has often used Israel's enemies to bring His prophecies to pass involving Israel. God used the nations associated with the U.N. organization to do that in 1948. And one of the most important matters about that prophecy is how the evil basket of figs were included in that along with true Judah, which is what I was talking about earlier. It means today's state of Israel is NOT the true state involving Christ's coming Kingdom. Why are some of you so confused about that distinction, since the majority of those Jews there still... refuse Christ Jesus today, and Christ said He moved His vineyard out of their care per Matt.21?!? (Per Isaiah 5, the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" represent that "vineyard".)


And the very fact that they still exist today, even after multiple genocide attempts by armies of nations that outnumbered them several times over also shows God's intervention.

You never heard me deny God's hand involving His Israel. Get off your podium and come to reasoning in The Word of God, for you're missing a lot.

IKing 11:30-32
30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
32 (But he shall have one tribe for My servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
(KJV)

IKing 11:35-37
35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.
37 And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel.
(KJV)

God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim king over Israel which is what the northern ten tribe kingdom was called after God split the 12 tribes apart. He promised there would always dwell in Jerusalem "one tribe". And that's about a remnant of the tribe of Judah. A remnant of them has always been there in Jerusalem since this prophecy, even during the Babylon captivity and even after the Romans had destroyed Jerusalem. But the 1948 creation of the state of Israel involved a return of many more of Judah that had remained in Babylon, and were further scattered through the countries. Problem is, a lot of those Jews that returned with Judah in 1948 were of the nations, and not of the tribe of Judah, just like what happened with the small remnant of Judah that returned to build the second temple and city in Ezra and Nehemiah's day.


As far as Israel being, "A state under UN protection," where was the UN during the three seperate attempts by neighboring nations to wipe Israel off the map in '48, '67 and '73? Don't remember seeing any blue helmets fighting for the Israelis or forcing the aggressors to stop.

Then you need to look deeper into the history of that, for the U.S. was one of the main backers of Israel during those periods. As a matter of fact, our U.S. B52 bombers loaded with nukes on the alert pad actually taxied to the runway in prep for orders to take off. (I was a USAF B52-D crew chief in the early 1970's during the Vietnam War, which is how I know this fact.) Our troops didn't wear "blue helmets" in U.N. police actions like Korea, Vietnam, nor in Iraq. Yet the U.N. was definitely involved, especially too much involved in Vietnam (the political side of things is where the U.N. mostly does its thing, even today). The borders for Israel in all those periods were established by U.N. Charter.


Where were they when incursions and rocket attacks were being launched on Israel from southern Lebanon?
Sure, they put blue helmets there for "observation" later on, but the attacks didn't cease.
(The last time Israel went into Lebanon, Hamas and Hezbollah had been firing rockets into Israel from behind UN observation posts.)

You still don't get it. The U.N. exists to keep the army of Israel 'at bay'. The Arabs cannot defeat them. That's why Israel continually has to give territory back to the Palestinians after taking it. The U.N. stands for United Nations if you haven't yet noticed, not blue helmeted soldiers. The armies of the U.N. member nations have functioned in that role (troops from 28 nations in the 1990 Gulf War). The blue helmeted troops are just a figure-head show, because the original plan of the U.N. was to have its own standing army over all other nations. That theory has yet to materialize, since the U.N. instead is allowed to exercise political authority over member nation's armies instead.

And where were they when terrorists started kidnapping Israeli soldiers, launching rocket attacks on Israeli civilian centers, and sending suicide bombers to Israeli market places?

Oh, they eventually show up....to tell Israel how wrong they were for taking steps to defend themselves after the international community refuses to do anything.

Kidnapping of Israeli soldiers and terrorist attacks on its on soil is a matter for Israel, not the armies of member nations the U.N. can call upon. When the U.N. showed up in Lebanon a couple of years ago, it was mainly to halt Israel's army from going any farther. Then notice Israel had to move back to its territorial borders per the U.N. The U.N. is a New World Order function, and the NWO spokesmen have already declared Jerusalem as "The International City of Peace" per its one-world government plans.


And News Flash! the UN didn't "force" Israel to give back anything. Israel gave back what was taken by choice and not force. And only AFTER the UN promised to assist with a peacekeeping presence and monitoring.

Whether you want to call it "by choice" or friendly cohercion from the nations involved in the U.N., no matter, it's still the U.N. working as a supranational body meddling in the affairs of nations. I'm for Israel taking all their lands back, but the U.N. internatiionalists and world socialists in the U.N. aren't going to allow that.


But let's pretend what you say is true. Why didn't the UN "force" Jordan to give up the West Bank and East Jerusalem when they took them in '48 and later annexed them? Didn't belong to them. They didn't offer the land to the Palestinians once they took it. They annexed it for themselves.

Answer: Zephaniah 3:8; Zechariah 14:2; Micah 4, etc. (Get back to me if you don't yet understand what that involves regarding the Arab nations around Jerusalem). I want you to see God's Plan and Working behind this most of all, not politics of men playing games.


And why hasn't the UN forced Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon to let the Palestinians out of their camps and give them freedom to move about their countries? Instead, they live in squalor, prisoners of their Arab brothers.

Glad you notice the internationalists at the U.N. appear to be taking sides, but towards what aim? It's about their planned peace solution for a joint Jewish-Arab state. And it's going to bring in the Antichrist to sit over Jerusalem in God's Place.


Since the UN accepted Israel into their organization, they have been anything but a friend to them.

There have been over 300 UN general assembly resolutions against Israel.
Against the Middle East countries (including Iran) - less than one-tenth that number, total.

Israel is also the only nation never to be allowed to sit on the UN Security Council. Why is that if the UN is such a good friend?

Now you're getting closer to what the U.N. organization was created for. But just WHO is it really behind that organization working against Israel?


-- And WHY were Daniel and his bretheren protected by the king?
Three words: God's Direct Intervention
Dietary test showing they were in even better health than those fed with the kings food.
Daniel walking out of the lions den.
Sharach, Meshach, Abenego being visited while in the fiery furnace.

That was God's protection. The king had nothing to do with that.

Well, you're partially wrong with that thinking. God was in control of the king of Babylon too. Don't forget that God told Israel through Jeremiah if they agreed to go into the 70 years captivity to Babylon they would be well taken care of, and even increase in numbers (and that happened). Of course that was by God's working, but He used... the kingdom of Babylon to accomplish it. So once again, you forget how God chooses to work in the affairs of men on earth. Daniel was even exalted to third ruler in the kingdom by king Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar was even concerned for Daniel's safety in the lion's den, and relied upon Daniel's God to protect him, and made sure the false prophets couldn't secretly get in to murder Daniel. All that's written there, simply have to read it only.


You want to compare that to your "globalists working through the UN to protect Israel?"

Yes, let's do exactly that. But it's not MY globalist working, I don't like it at all, but I know it's happening per God's Plan. I support the state of Israel. But what the globalists are doing IS God's Working, and He foretold us about it beforehand in His Word. My nation (the U.S.), has supported Israel in the past with its conflicts with the Arabs. The 1990 Gulf War was not just a retaliation upon Saddam for invading Kuwait. It was because of the threat Saddam had become against Israel in the middleast, allowing Communism to have stronger influence in the middleast. Israel has well shown it's more than capable of handling little duels with bands of Islamic radicals.

So what if Syria, which is allied with Russia, sent huge armies south invading Israel today? You don't think many of the U.N. member nations would come to Israel's aid? That's still the major deterent against radical Islam today, which is why they have instead turned to terrorist attacks instead of outright invasion. The U.N. is going to have their peace plan for Jerusalem whether anyone likes it or not, because God has ordained the world beast system for the last days. The globalists created the U.N. for one reason, to bring all nations together into a one world government, the beast system of Rev.13:1-2. It's goal is also to end all wars on earth and bring world peace via a one-world kingdom and king. Until that happens, the U.N. exists to use the powers in the world to bring its plans for that world peace, but it MUST fit aims God has set forth for it. As God's people we're supposed to understand this, since God called the locusts of Joel 2 His army that He sends.
 

Foreigner

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Veteran, I have a serious question for you.
Do you even comprehend the point you are trying to make?

Your original post that started our interaction was this:

"Problem is though, lot of the people claiming to be of Israel today... are not of His chosen Israel, not by birth for they are foreigners from the Canaanite nations, and of the seed of Esau. The "synagogue of Satan" is in possession of the holy lands and Jerusalem today, which is why those intend to build another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. Those are preparing the world for 'their' king, a false king, and the devout Jews there don't have a clue about it. Neither do many of my Christian brethren know, even though our Lord Jesus and His Apostles and prophets warned about those future tribulation events of a false messiah coming there prior to Christ's return."


Nothing really to do with the topic of the thread but you felt the need to chime in anyway.

I read your last post and there are so many things wrong with what you said that I could do the same thing - commenting on every one of your comments with a comment of my own and we can continue to disagree. Especially with unsubstantiated, unproven claims you make.


For example, I heard the rumor about the B-52s, as well. I was in M.I. when I was in the Army for several years.
Was never going to happen.

As pointed out by the Pentagon:
- It would have meant the US violated multiple UN resolutions and left them open to sanctions, censure, the United Nations physically leaving the US, and even mlitary action towards the U.S.
- It would mean the US violated treaty agreements with the Soviet Union, giving them legitimate reason to abandon the treaties and, if they chose, use nukes on Israel to defend Arab nations. The result would likely have led to a US-Soviet nuclear exchange.
- It would have given the Soviet Union the green light to offer direct military assistance to any or all Arab nations in the conflict
- It would have invited a long-term Soviet military presence on the ground in the Arab countries the US depends on for oil
- It would have caused Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC nations to immediately cut off the flow of oil to the US
- The oil cutoff would have come at the exact moment that Russia, the Warsaw Pact Nations, and even China would have begun gearing up their militaries.
- It was one of the multiple scenerios that, when played out via computers at the Pentagon, ended up in global nuclear conflict

So, again. It wasn't going to happen.


As far as the rest of what you said, much of it makes me think you are holding a conversation with yourself that you aren't going to let others truly be privy to.
 

veteran

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Veteran, I have a serious question for you.
Do you even comprehend the point you are trying to make?

Your original post that started our interaction was this:

"Problem is though, lot of the people claiming to be of Israel today... are not of His chosen Israel, not by birth for they are foreigners from the Canaanite nations, and of the seed of Esau. The "synagogue of Satan" is in possession of the holy lands and Jerusalem today, which is why those intend to build another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. Those are preparing the world for 'their' king, a false king, and the devout Jews there don't have a clue about it. Neither do many of my Christian brethren know, even though our Lord Jesus and His Apostles and prophets warned about those future tribulation events of a false messiah coming there prior to Christ's return."


Nothing really to do with the topic of the thread but you felt the need to chime in anyway.


It has everything... to do with the topic about the plan for a joint Jewish-Palestine state. The same "crept in unawares" among the Jews that misled them to refuse our Lord Jesus at His first coming are busy today misleading them again to build another temple and start up the Old Covenant sacrifices and worship again. No matter how much those like yourself try to sugarcoat what today's Jews are up to in Jerusalem, that's essentially what it amounts to. We as believers on The Saviour Jesus Christ are to recognize that working for Jerusalem today. We are not to join in support of that working to bring back sacrifices. A Christian joining in that is to deny Christ Jesus as the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time.


I read your last post and there are so many things wrong with what you said that I could do the same thing - commenting on every one of your comments with a comment of my own and we can continue to disagree. Especially with unsubstantiated, unproven claims you make.

More than likely, it's about many things in Bible prophecy you don't understand. I think I've been pretty clear with what I have substantiated from Scripture, and from history. Your simply disagreeing with it by offering your opinion only like in your last post doesn't disprove what I've offered. I referenced 9 different Bible Scritpures in my previous post, whereas you did not reference a single one in giving your opinions.


For example, I heard the rumor about the B-52s, as well. I was in M.I. when I was in the Army for several years.
Was never going to happen.

As pointed out by the Pentagon:
- It would have meant the US violated multiple UN resolutions and left them open to sanctions, censure, the United Nations physically leaving the US, and even mlitary action towards the U.S.
- It would mean the US violated treaty agreements with the Soviet Union, giving them legitimate reason to abandon the treaties and, if they chose, use nukes on Israel to defend Arab nations. The result would likely have led to a US-Soviet nuclear exchange.
- It would have given the Soviet Union the green light to offer direct military assistance to any or all Arab nations in the conflict
- It would have invited a long-term Soviet military presence on the ground in the Arab countries the US depends on for oil
- It would have caused Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC nations to immediately cut off the flow of oil to the US
- The oil cutoff would have come at the exact moment that Russia, the Warsaw Pact Nations, and even China would have begun gearing up their militaries.
- It was one of the multiple scenerios that, when played out via computers at the Pentagon, ended up in global nuclear conflict

So, again. It wasn't going to happen.


Whether or not our B52's were going to get the go ahead to takeoff is not the matter; your speculating in trying to disprove that our B52's with nukes taxied out of their reventments when you don't know. They did, I served on B52 alert status in SAC while in Guam, I was a crew chief on one. The main point still is, we were prepared to back Israel up to the hilt. When orders were sent for buffs to go that far, all those other scenarios went out the window.


As far as the rest of what you said, much of it makes me think you are holding a conversation with yourself that you aren't going to let others truly be privy to.


I can understand where someone that probably hasn't studied that much Bible prophecy, especially from the Old Testament prophets, would think like that.
 

Foreigner

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It has everything... to do with the topic about the plan for a joint Jewish-Palestine state. The same "crept in unawares" among the Jews that misled them to refuse our Lord Jesus at His first coming are busy today misleading them again to build another temple and start up the Old Covenant sacrifices and worship again. No matter how much those like yourself try to sugarcoat what today's Jews are up to in Jerusalem, that's essentially what it amounts to. We as believers on The Saviour Jesus Christ are to recognize that working for Jerusalem today. We are not to join in support of that working to bring back sacrifices. A Christian joining in that is to deny Christ Jesus as the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time.

-- As I said, your statement does not have anything to do with the topic of the thread - at all.
Unless of course I have simply missed the connection between the Palestinian position on peace with Israel and the future plans to bring back sacrifices in the temple. Please focus on the topic at hand. Many thanks.




More than likely, it's about many things in Bible prophecy you don't understand. I think I've been pretty clear with what I have substantiated from Scripture, and from history. Your simply disagreeing with it by offering your opinion only like in your last post doesn't disprove what I've offered. I referenced 9 different Bible Scritpures in my previous post, whereas you did not reference a single one in giving your opinions.

-- I understand Bible prophecy very well, thank you LOL. Your claims about the UN and the UN's role in "defending" Israel are what I find humorous.
And unfortunately, Bible prophecy doesn't support that concept.




Whether or not our B52's were going to get the go ahead to takeoff is not the matter; your speculating in trying to disprove that our B52's with nukes taxied out of their reventments when you don't know.


-- Actually, neither do you.
By your own admission you were not there. You heard it from someone else who may or may not be telling the truth based on what they heard from a friend of a friend.

This is (of course) where you claim that you actually spoke to a crew member who was on the plane, right?
You seem to think that they would be willing to risk their career and jail time, to pass this little tidbit on to you.

Tell me, if someone is willing to violate their security clearance and what was almost certainly a command directive not to share the event (pretending it did happen) with ANYONE, why would you trust someone who is willing to share something like this in a casual conversation?



They did, I served on B52 alert status in SAC while in Guam, I was a crew chief on one. The main point still is, we were prepared to back Israel up to the hilt. When orders were sent for buffs to go that far, all those other scenarios went out the window.

-- Again, the U.S. had ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of using nukes in a first strike capability in Israel.

Besides the reasons given by the Pentagon:

- It would have meant the US violated multiple UN resolutions and left them open to sanctions, censure, the United Nations physically leaving the US, and even mlitary action towards the U.S.

- It would mean the US violated treaty agreements with the Soviet Union, giving them legitimate reason to abandon the treaties and, if they chose, use nukes on Israel to defend Arab nations. The result would likely have led to a US-Soviet nuclear exchange.

- It would have given the Soviet Union the green light to offer direct military assistance to any or all Arab nations in the conflict

- It would have invited a long-term Soviet military presence on the ground in the Arab countries the US depends on for oil

- It would have caused Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC nations to immediately cut off the flow of oil to the US

- The oil cutoff would have come at the exact moment that Russia, the Warsaw Pact Nations, and even China would have begun gearing up their militaries.

- It was one of the multiple scenerios that, when played out via computers at the Pentagon, ended up in global nuclear conflict

....there are number of other common sense reasons, not the least of which is this:

The US had scores of B-52s and fighters at NATO bases in Turkey, Greece and Italy that could have done a much more precise job in protecting Israel without the collateral damage of a nuclear weapon that would kill large numbers of Israelis as well as Arabs and be political and possibly real-world suicide for the United States.

In other words, the job could have been done just as thoroughly with conventional weapons.




I can understand where someone that probably hasn't studied that much Bible prophecy, especially from the Old Testament prophets, would think like that.

-- I would say the same for someone who has studied it, but obviously did not grasp what he studied.
 

lawrance

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I think that if both sides only came to Christ all would be fine.

But we just have war mongers ranting and raving idiots ! trying to bring the whole world in to war.

I can't believe that some people are so stupid that they support a bunch of idiots and just blatantly reject Jesus Christ, do you not know that if it's not in Jesus Christ that it's all in vane.

Why do some so called Christians so vehemently support people who are not of Christ and outwardly reject him with a lot of cunning spin pushing dipstick values that only simpletons would like to hear. i think someone said if you are not for me you are against me.
Anyone who supports people who reject Jesus Christ would have to be a damed fool.
 

veteran

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-- As I said, your statement does not have anything to do with the topic of the thread - at all.
Unless of course I have simply missed the connection between the Palestinian position on peace with Israel and the future plans to bring back sacrifices in the temple. Please focus on the topic at hand. Many thanks.


If you don't understand how that relates to Islam's role, then you're not going to understand the events of the future when the real peace plan for Jerusalem is put into effect with Islam's support.


-- I understand Bible prophecy very well, thank you LOL. Your claims about the UN and the UN's role in "defending" Israel are what I find humorous.
And unfortunately, Bible prophecy doesn't support that concept.


You've failed to disprove the role of establishing and protection the U.N. has had over today's state of Israel. You might as well go ahead and deny the U.N. organization had anything to do with the establishing of Israel and its borders in 1948 also.


-- Actually, neither do you.
By your own admission you were not there. You heard it from someone else who may or may not be telling the truth based on what they heard from a friend of a friend.


You're really the one that said you only 'heard' of it, you speak of yourself.


This is (of course) where you claim that you actually spoke to a crew member who was on the plane, right?
You seem to think that they would be willing to risk their career and jail time, to pass this little tidbit on to you.

Tell me, if someone is willing to violate their security clearance and what was almost certainly a command directive not to share the event (pretending it did happen) with ANYONE, why would you trust someone who is willing to share something like this in a casual conversation?


My serving on B52's as a crew chief on alert status then is not classified info. When we went outside the compound on base, we even wore Alert status badges so all, including non-military personnel... could recognize us, allowing us in front of the line at the chow hall, BX, etc. Even my military personnel records show that I was trained to work on nuclear uploaded aircraft involving B52's. And those personnel records went with me to my next base with no special stamps or anything. Anyone at CBPO could preview my personnel records. So this tells me you don't know what was classified and what wasn't.


-- Again, the U.S. had ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of using nukes in a first strike capability in Israel.

I'd like to believe that. But it most likely woundn't have been upon Israel, but those attacking Israel.


Besides the reasons given by the Pentagon:
- It would have meant the US violated multiple UN resolutions and left them open to sanctions, censure, the United Nations physically leaving the US, and even mlitary action towards the U.S.

- It would mean the US violated treaty agreements with the Soviet Union, giving them legitimate reason to abandon the treaties and, if they chose, use nukes on Israel to defend Arab nations. The result would likely have led to a US-Soviet nuclear exchange.

- It would have given the Soviet Union the green light to offer direct military assistance to any or all Arab nations in the conflict

- It would have invited a long-term Soviet military presence on the ground in the Arab countries the US depends on for oil

- It would have caused Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC nations to immediately cut off the flow of oil to the US


Like I said, all those scenarios are gone if something like that ever happens. Some believe it's actually what God's consuming fire is for the end, when Russia and its allies do come upon Israel in final per Ezek.38-39. I don't. I believe God's consuming fire is of a sort more powerful.


The oil cutoff would have come at the exact moment that Russia, the Warsaw Pact Nations, and even China would have begun gearing up their militaries.
It was one of the multiple scenerios that, when played out via computers at the Pentagon, ended up in global nuclear conflict


Now that does... sound like classified info.


....there are number of other common sense reasons, not the least of which is this:
The US had scores of B-52s and fighters at NATO bases in Turkey, Greece and Italy that could have done a much more precise job in protecting Israel without the collateral damage of a nuclear weapon that would kill large numbers of Israelis as well as Arabs and be political and possibly real-world suicide for the United States.

In other words, the job could have been done just as thoroughly with conventional weapons.


If you really were in a position to know what you were talking about, you'd have known that with conflicts in the past where we have agreements to support another nation militarily, during hightened conflicts usually the opposing enemy nations go on a high alert status too. I don't personally think our country or the Soviets in that time had any intention of using nukes. But power plays as a scare tactic they would do... and did.
 

Foreigner

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If you don't understand how that relates to Islam's role, then you're not going to understand the events of the future when the real peace plan for Jerusalem is put into effect with Islam's support.

-- "Islam's role" in beginning the practice of sacrifices again in the JEWISH Temple.....uh huh



You've failed to disprove the role of establishing and protection the U.N. has had over today's state of Israel. You might as well go ahead and deny the U.N. organization had anything to do with the establishing of Israel and its borders in 1948 also.

-- You seem a little confused. Let me recount for you. I have provided several examples of where, IF the U.N. were "protecting" Israel, they are doing an incredibly poor job. I have shown where Israel has been targeted, marginalized and even shown spite by the UN over the last several decades.
You - providing zero evidence - claim otherwise. Try again.



You're really the one that said you only 'heard' of it, you speak of yourself.

-- Your own words state that you were not there when it allegedly happened. Therefore...



My serving on B52's as a crew chief on alert status then is not classified info. When we went outside the compound on base, we even wore Alert status badges so all, including non-military personnel... could recognize us, allowing us in front of the line at the chow hall, BX, etc. Even my military personnel records show that I was trained to work on nuclear uploaded aircraft involving B52's. And those personnel records went with me to my next base with no special stamps or anything. Anyone at CBPO could preview my personnel records. So this tells me you don't know what was classified and what wasn't.

-- LOL
Please reread my post and try to focus instead of planning your response before you even finish reading it.
I never said that you or anyone else serving on a B52, regardless of the capacity, is "classified. Never. Not once. Never even implied.

But I do know that there are certain missions whose activities (even plans for those activities) ARE classified.

In Europe I worked as something called a Strategic Debriefer. I debriefed defecting Soviets and members of the Warsaw Pact, civilian, governmental, and military. My role was known, but there are to this day many things I learned that I am forbidden to discuss - and I am now a civilian.

Loading US war planes with nuclear weapons in preparation to nuke the forces of foreign governments that the US has not declared hostilities towards, in defense of a nation that we have not told anyone we have promised to protect in the event of an invasion or military action is HARDLY an activity that would not be classified.

What? Not classified? Awesome! Give me a link or a source so I can read about this incredible non-classified event. And no, not you. You have proven to be anything but a reliable source.




I'd like to believe that. But it most likely woundn't have been upon Israel, but those attacking Israel.

-- You forget, those forces were within Israel's borders. Hence, the attack would have been on Israel.
It would have killed Israelis, both civilian and military indescriminately, as well as the Arab forces.
And it would have gone against every single treaty and international agreement that the US has ever signed.
And if Israel itself possessed (as they do) nuclear weapons, as well as a large number of US-purchased delivery aircraft, why would the U.S. be needed anyway?
It would have been difficult for the International Community to criticize Israel for using nukes on its own soil to drive back an undeclared illegal invasion by multiple countries.




Like I said, all those scenarios are gone if something like that ever happens. Some believe it's actually what God's consuming fire is for the end, when Russia and its allies do come upon Israel in final per Ezek.38-39. I don't. I believe God's consuming fire is of a sort more powerful.

-- Gosh that's swell, but it has little to do with the three conflicts of the past we are speaking of.
Especially when you consider that neither Russian or Chinese forces mobilized, let alone gave a hint of planning to move on Israel.




Now that does... sound like classified info.

-- Ohhhhhh, so close. It is called DE-classified information. As of 1996.
A briefing given to public and press as part of the Post-Cold War release of information.
No security clearance needed :)
A quick call to the Pentagon CIO will confirm that for you.
Chief Information Office:
(703) 693-1852
DSN: 225-1846

See, at least ONE of us is willing to back up our claims...




If you really were in a position to know what you were talking about, you'd have known that with conflicts in the past where we have agreements to support another nation militarily, during hightened conflicts usually the opposing enemy nations go on a high alert status too. I don't personally think our country or the Soviets in that time had any intention of using nukes. But power plays as a scare tactic they would do... and did.

-- Oh, I am quite aware of it. It appears moreso than you.
When the U.S. agrees to defend a nation militarily, it is always done PUBLICALLY.
There are two reasons for that:
1. To re-assure an ally, thus giving them the courage to stand up to implied or actual threats of others.
2. To deter an aggressor from showing aggression towards the ally. Knowing that that the U.S. will back a country militarily has deterred many a conflict (but not all).

The US has publically promised defense of its NATO allies, South Korea, Japan and a number of other countries. Publically, for that very reason.
The US has done no such thing, either alone or as part of the UN in regards to Israel.