The difference here is you are equating believers "purchasing" the refilling of the oil of the Spirit through prayer (an analogy) with a sinner literally trying to purchase the Spirit with money. Different things.
Parable of the Ten Virgins
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The difference here is you are equating believers "purchasing" the refilling of the oil of the Spirit through prayer (an analogy) with a sinner literally trying to purchase the Spirit with money. Different things.
No one has really said salvation can be bought. The five foolish virgins had already been betrothed. That does not mean that they are free to mess up on the belief that nothing could go wrong. People can quench the Spirit. They can also be unfaithful servants. We should not take the gifts of God for granted or treat them with a lack of disrespect lest we lose our places in the kingdom.
Some Christians are quick to point out how Israel, betrothed to God, somehow went wrong. If they can see that, why can't they see that Christians can also go wrong?
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Not at all. You are simply misinterpreting the purpose of the parable. Since Jesus said that He did not "know" those foolish virgins, it should be crystal clear that they were not genuine believers -- just professing Christians.
What these people were told was to go and *buy* salvation without money and without price. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit by God's grace. This is what the preaching of the Gospel does (Isa 55:1,2; Rev 22:17).
Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Let's start from the beginning. Tell me:
1. What do you think the lamps and the oil in this parable represented?
2. What was the implied job these 10 virgins were to do; what part were they to play in regards to the marriage?
VictoryinJesus
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that is not what the wise said “go buy the Holy Spirit without money” but is filling in what is not there. Because if they sent them to those who sold to buy what can’t be bought with money...it was a fools errand. determined to fail.
They were told to buy from those who sell. Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so ; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
hopefully there is an agreement the Holy Spirit can’t be bought with money yet the Holy Spirit cost giving up everything that is perishing, that you may have Life. Simon was told “thy money perish with thee”
James said something similar. James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
And Christ Himself says something similar: Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
...when you fail. Can relate to going after that which fails. Consider the son who wasted his inheritance and the father received again. Can relate to going after gain or riches or things that never fill or satisfy a thirst or hunger but only deepens it the more. “The Spirit and the bride say, Come.”
There is both in Revelation 3:17-18 He who is rich, and increased with goods, and has need of nothing. Knowing not that he is wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked...God says there what His counsel is: buy of him gold tried in the fire ...that you may have something that doesn’t perish.
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Davy
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You definitely are confused. To believe on "another Jesus" is to believe on 'the' Antichrist the brethren had heard shall come, not the "many antichrists" that you're trying to insert into that Scripture. Jesus said in the first part of Matthew 24 that 'many' would come in His name saying they are Christ. Those are who you're talking about, and have been many through history, even some in my era. Those are not 'the Antichrist' He was pointing to in the later Matthew 24:23-26 verses, which is the actual mimicking of "another Jesus", one claiming to be Messiah while working great signs and wonders to deceive.
It's not proper to assign something Jesus says in a parable as if He Himself believed it was so. In fact, our Heavenly Father often uses the haughty's own words to mock them with, like He did in Isaiah 14 when Lucifier said he would exalt himself. The five wise virgins telling the five foolish virgins to go to those who sell and buy the Oil doesn't mean our Lord Jesus believed it was possible, just because it's part of the parable He was giving.
No, Jesus didn't change the subject at that verse. He's still on the matter of the goodman of the house, which represents His elect as good stewards waiting for His return.
Well, I'm not going in circles brother. I've tried to show you something regarding the end of this world with the signs our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us in those Scriptures. I can understand if you've yet to grasp how they relate to the very end of this world if much of your Bible learning has been more of an historical nature.
Neccesary lighting for their procession.
If these are supposed by Jesus to have meant something other than the familiar elements of a familiar story, where is the authority to interpret it that way?
For instance . . . in the parable of the wheat and tares, Jesus says, the wheat are the children of the kingdom, and the tares are the children of the devil.
In this parable, where do we find Jesus telling us, "the lamps are the . . . and the oil is the . . ."?
And if indeed lacking in Biblical authority, don't we only all offer our opinions? But how many go on to take those opinions and turn them into doctrines?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
So, anyone willing to discuss the spare vessel of the Oil the five wise virgins had, a part of the ten virgins parable the op left out?
I find it interesting that many leave that part out like it wasn't even a part of the parable...
Matt 25:2-4
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
KJV
All ten virgins had the Oil that was in their lamps. But only the five wise virgins took a spare vessel of Oil.
What does that spare vessel of Oil represent then?
I find it interesting that many leave that part out like it wasn't even a part of the parable...
Matt 25:2-4
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
KJV
All ten virgins had the Oil that was in their lamps. But only the five wise virgins took a spare vessel of Oil.
What does that spare vessel of Oil represent then?
Extra supplies brought by the wiser girls.
Those who realized they may have a longer wait.
They made the needed preparations ahead of time.
Because once the bridegroom comes, it's too late to get ready if you're not already ready.
So watch, because you don't know when He's coming.
The extra vessels of oil is the difference it makes when you realize that you don't know how long you're going to have to wait, but you still have the expectation of his arrival. He's coming, but we don't know when, it could be early or late, we don't know, so be ready for a long wait if need be.
Much love!
Davy
Well-Known Member
I agree with the op that the lamp represents our understanding, and The Oil represents The Holy Spirit giving us that understanding. If The Holy Spirit has shown you what to expect in the future, then you will be more prepared than someone who doesn't have a clue as it makes them wonder in worry. For those who don't have Christ in their life, I feel sorry for them, because without Him they place themselves at the mercy of Satan and his wicked servants, and are thus like reeds shaking in the wind.
So I believe the spare vessel of the Oil points to those who obey our Lord Jesus' command to 'watch', meaning knowing the times and the seasons of the end that Apostle Paul pointed to in 1 Thessalonians 5, and understanding the timings in our Lord's Book of Revelation.
Some Churches today aren't watching those things. Many of their preachers are telling them they don't need to 'watch', but to just be ready to be raptured. They go directly against our Lord Jesus' command to 'watch'. They don't even know what He's talking about with what... to watch! Just waiting for our Lord Jesus' return is not watching.
Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV
No man knows the day or hour of our Lord's Jesus return. That doesn't mean we aren't suppose to be watching the signs He gave us in His Word leading up to His coming though. The good thing about forums like these is regardless of much confused Bible teaching by various individuals, some are going to be teaching those signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave us to be watching, so at least some brethren might pay attention enough to recall them when they see them coming to pass.
What fascinates me most about the Parable is the fact that it's an even 50/50 split instead of say... 1/3.
It makes me wonder if there is a connection to these other 50/50 splits...
Matthew 24:40
"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left"
Matthew 24:41
"Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left"
Luke 17:34
"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left"
It makes me wonder if there is a connection to these other 50/50 splits...
Matthew 24:40
"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left"
Matthew 24:41
"Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left"
Luke 17:34
"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left"
Wow... not bad. I believe these passages speak of Christians as a whole rather than just leadership... but then again, these verses are all part of the same discourse the Lord was giving to His disciples.... and verse 41 is followed with Him telling them, "Watch therefore, for you know not what hour your Lord will come."
It's interesting.
I appreciate the post, and welcome to the forum, Base12.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Satan loves men's doctrines that always pull out pieces of God's truth and then makes something else out of them.
The false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine of men takes what Jesus said in Luke 17 about the first one 'taken', and applies His Salvation to those. But in reality, when a true disciple of Jesus continues reading what Jesus' disciples asked Him about 'where' those first would be taken to in the last Luke 17 verse, much, much more is revealed by our Lord Jesus.
Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV
This same answer was first mentioned in Matthew 24 in Jesus' discourse upon the Mount of Olives about events of the end leading up to His return. We were supposed to have read it first before getting to this example in Luke 17...
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Same answer He gave His disciples in Luke 17:37, the difference being He was specific that it's among a dead "carcase" where those eagles will be gathered together, meaning not Him. So if one is not gathered by our Lord Jesus, then to whom? Easy, the Devil.
That is what happens with religious fanatics who fail to get down to discipline in God's Word for themselves. They are like reeds shaking in the wind with men's doctrines, to and fro.
The Final Answer to the Riddle -- our Lord Jesus showed that His servants are NOT the first ones 'taken'! We instead are to remain in the field (world) working for Him all the way up to His return, and not be fooled by the coming of the false-Christ that comes first.
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