Parable Of The Unmerciful Servant

[CoreIssue]

So what is a tormentor?
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 930 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
basanisthvß from (928)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Basanistes 1:561,96
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bas-an-is-tace' Noun Masculine
Definition

1. one who elicits the truth by the use of the rack
   1. an inquisitor, torturer also used of a jailer doubtless because the business of torturing was also assigned to him

Matthew 18:34 New International Version (NIV)
34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

The KJV paints a false picture of the reality.

Remember torture has many meanings.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So what is a tormentor?
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 930 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
basanisthvß from (928)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Basanistes 1:561,96
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bas-an-is-tace' Noun Masculine
Definition

1. one who elicits the truth by the use of the rack
   1. an inquisitor, torturer also used of a jailer doubtless because the business of torturing was also assigned to him

Matthew 18:34 New International Version (NIV)
34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

Agreed. So what/who did the torturers represent in the parable?

 

[CoreIssue]

Secondly, why would the Lord deliberately ask for the servant to pay his own debt if this were an Old Testament saint in view here? They were under law.

Not if, it was under the OT law.

But this was a civil case, so under Roman law.

 

[CoreIssue]

Agreed. So what/who did the torturers represent in the parable?

Eternity in the lake of fire.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not if, it was under the OT law.

But this was a civil case, so under Roman law.

Ok, now you're really losing me... Jesus was using a parable about one of HIS servants being judged under Roman law? You'll have explain that one to me further.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Eternity in the lake of fire.

Ok. Finally we are in agreement on something.

So it's down to how their righteousness would be attained... But again, why would He ask Old Testament saints to pay for their own righteousness? Surely He knew in asking that no man could pay for their sins, but the Old Testament Jews didn't know this. The message of forgiveness of the entire sin debt through one sacrifice was a uniquely New Testament teaching.

 

[CoreIssue]

Ok, now you're really losing me... Jesus was using a parable about one of HIS servants being judged under Roman law? You'll have explain that one to me further.

Actually he wasn't. He was giving a worldly example that people could understand at the time.

Just like with farmers planning etc. all worldly examples to illustrate a spiritual point.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes. It was conditional. But are you automatically assuming that it can't be referring to salvation then? This would be based on an assumption. My point is that it was conditional, and if the servant did not return forgiveness to others in kind, then his grace would be rescinded.

The problem here as you keep intermixing realities under Mosaic law with those under the blood covenant of Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

Ok. Finally we are in agreement on something.

So it's down to how their righteousness would be attained... But again, why would He ask Old Testament saints to pay for their own righteousness? Surely He knew in asking that no man could pay for their sins, but the Old Testament Jews didn't know this. The message of forgiveness of the entire sin debt through one sacrifice was a uniquely New Testament teaching.

That is not true.

In the Old Testament one asking for forgiveness provided a sacrificial lamb each year to pay for the sins of the past.

The sins were covered as long as they follow the Mosaic law. Very conditional.

Sin was taught in the Old Testament.

 

[Jay Ross]

Addressing the OP only, the need to forgive others for their trespasses against us is indeed a requirement to receive salvation, if we cannot forgive others then how can God forgive us? It shows that we have not renewed our minds nor put on the renewed/refurbished nature of God that He intended us to become through the Cross.

 

[CoreIssue]

Addressing the OP only, the need to forgive others for their trespasses against us is indeed a requirement to receive salvation, if we cannot forgive others then how can God forgive us? It shows that we have not renewed our minds nor put on the renewed/refurbished nature of God that He intended us to become through the Cross.

The OP was embedded in claims that attributed Old Testament to New Testament and linked it to salvation.

Now you show me where the Bible says forgiveness is a condition of salvation? Then define that forgiveness.

The forgiveness of Christ is conditioned upon repentance.

 

[Doug]

Greetings all. My beliefs on this parable may bother some, if not many, but I only seek to interpret and teach the word for what it says.

Specifically, I believe this parable teaches that those who do not walk in forgiveness will have their forgiveness from God rescinded. This interpretation seems patently obvious to me, based on the internal context.

But if you disagree, what is your interpretation of the meaning behind the unmerciful servant being given over to the tormentors for not forgiving his fellow servant? One argument I've found so far is that "if we do not forgive others, we are not forgiven," which I believe is intended to protect the Once saved, Always saved position by teaching that anyone who is truly saved will always forgive. But I'm not sure that bears out in real life. I think a Christian still has the ability to be unforgiving if they want to, and many are. Others profess that Jesus did not mean "tormentors" literally, or that this parable does not apply to Christians. But I don't think those interpretations hold water either.

Please share how you interpret this parable, and what you believe the words "servant" and "tormentors" are referring to in this parable.

I will post it in full below, and please don't let this thread become a contentious debate. I'd like to discuss this with some spiritual maturely if at all possible.

Thanks in advance for all replies.
Hidden In Him
________________________

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. (Matthew 18:21-35)

Hi

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:15

This passage applies to this parable which illustrates this verse.

This was directed to Israel; Israel was under a covenant and in order to be forgiven they had to forgive.

 

[Davy]

Greetings all. My beliefs on this parable may bother some, if not many, but I only seek to interpret and teach the word for what it says.

Specifically, I believe this parable teaches that those who do not walk in forgiveness will have their forgiveness from God rescinded. This interpretation seems patently obvious to me, based on the internal context.

But if you disagree, what is your interpretation of the meaning behind the unmerciful servant being given over to the tormentors for not forgiving his fellow servant? One argument I've found so far is that "if we do not forgive others, we are not forgiven," which I believe is intended to protect the Once saved, Always saved position by teaching that anyone who is truly saved will always forgive. But I'm not sure that bears out in real life. I think a Christian still has the ability to be unforgiving if they want to, and many are. Others profess that Jesus did not mean "tormentors" literally, or that this parable does not apply to Christians. But I don't think those interpretations hold water either.

Please share how you interpret this parable, and what you believe the words "servant" and "tormentors" are referring to in this parable.

I will post it in full below, and please don't let this thread become a contentious debate. I'd like to discuss this with some spiritual maturely if at all possible.

Thanks in advance for all replies.
Hidden In Him
________________________

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. (Matthew 18:21-35)

It is... possible to forgive everyone that may have done us wrong. Our Lord Jesus set that example for us.

This does not mean we have to throw away ideas of self-defense from a murderer, or an invader of our home, or our country. The difference in the parable is with one who asked... for time to repay the debut. They were repentant, which is why the debt was forgiven them. This idea is even related to God's Jubilee when debts in Israel were marked off and forgotten.

Even when you well know a person without God in their lives is somehow going to do you wrong, you can even forgive that poor soul before they do it to you. It doesn't mean you have let them run over you though, there's is a stopping point of those who take advantage that have no repentance of their acts. God has provided the rule of law among His people, and that includes Christian nations. So I hope this topic is not about trying to get Christ's Church to think they have to let Christ's enemies just run over them.

 

[Deborah_]

I believe this parable teaches that those who do not walk in forgiveness will have their forgiveness from God rescinded. This interpretation seems patently obvious to me, based on the internal context.

But if you disagree, what is your interpretation of the meaning behind the unmerciful servant being given over to the tormentors for not forgiving his fellow servant? One argument I've found so far is that "if we do not forgive others, we are not forgiven," which I believe is intended to protect the Once saved, Always saved position by teaching that anyone who is truly saved will always forgive. But I'm not sure that bears out in real life. I think a Christian still has the ability to be unforgiving if they want to, and many are. Others profess that Jesus did not mean "tormentors" literally, or that this parable does not apply to Christians. But I don't think those interpretations hold water either.

Please share how you interpret this parable, and what you believe the words "servant" and "tormentors" are referring to in this parable.

First of all, a couple of definitions:
SIN is the universal ‘disease’ of the human race, our spiritual inheritance going back to our earliest ancestors. It’s our rebellious attitude towards God, the conviction that we are the captains of our own souls and that God has no right to tell us how to live. This is the disease that kills us in the end, because it cuts us off from the God who is the Source of eternal life (Romans 6:23). And it affects even ‘good’ people. It doesn’t matter how respectable or morally upright unbelievers are; in so far as they are living (or trying to live) independently of God, they are living in SIN.

The things that we generally think of as ‘sins’ are merely the outward manifestations of SIN, the symptoms of the real problem underneath. When we turn to Christ, our SIN is forgiven. We still commit sins, and we need to confess them separately and ask for forgiveness in each case, but our SIN has been dealt with and that situation does not change.

Now, my interpretation of Jesus’ parable on forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35):
This parable is often interpreted to make it sound as though we will lose our salvation if we do not forgive an offender; the fate of the unforgiving servant is assumed to be an eternity of “torture” in Hell (Matthew 18:34). But I don't think this is correct - because Jesus has a particular stock of phrases that He uses to describe Hell - “Throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30) - which are conspicuous by their absence from this parable! So the forgiveness that is ‘forfeited’ here is not forgiveness of SIN (i.e. our final salvation), but forgiveness of sins (part of our everyday relationship with God). If I am unforgiving, I will suffer for it not in the age to come, but in my present life (because I will be cutting myself off from God’s favour); a refusal to forgive is, as one person has put it, “like eating a box of rat poison and then expecting the rat to die.”

 

[Episkopos]

Addressing the OP only, the need to forgive others for their trespasses against us is indeed a requirement to receive salvation, if we cannot forgive others then how can God forgive us? It shows that we have not renewed our minds nor put on the renewed/refurbished nature of God that He intended us to become through the Cross.

The OP is about God forgiving first a person who doesn't pass the forgiveness on to others.

 

[Hidden In Him]

That is not true.

In the Old Testament one asking for forgiveness provided a sacrificial lamb each year to pay for the sins of the past.

You seem to be forgetting the burnt offerings of bulls, goats and birds, which were for the general atonement of sins (Leviticus 1:3-17), and none of these atoned for their sins once and for all the way the Master forgave the debts of the servant once and for all.

But I'm not sure we're gonna get anywhere. Thanks for the replies though, CoreIssue.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Addressing the OP only, the need to forgive others for their trespasses against us is indeed a requirement to receive salvation, if we cannot forgive others then how can God forgive us? It shows that we have not renewed our minds nor put on the renewed/refurbished nature of God that He intended us to become through the Cross.

Absolutely. I believe He stresses forgiveness because we will still be imperfect in Heaven and occasionally offend one another, if only by accident. If He allows unforgiveness to be tolerated, it would be paramount to allowing an evil spirit to be entertained in His perfect kingdom, and He will not have it. So anyone who refused to forgive in this life would be declaring openly that they will continue to harbor resentments in the kingdom to come, thereby making themselves unfit for it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The forgiveness of Christ is conditioned upon repentance.

Yes, and in this particular passage, repentance from being unforgiving, LoL. Repentance in word only isn't genuine repentance, is it?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:15

This passage applies to this parable which illustrates this verse.

This was directed to Israel; Israel was under a covenant and in order to be forgiven they had to forgive.

Hi Doug. In all politeness I do not understand this theology.
1. For starers it makes the New Covenant less demanding upon believers than the Old Covenant was.
2. To make this argument, you would have to be saying that the entire Sermon on the Mount was directed to Israel. It would have Jesus telling all who heard it that their righteousness in the law needed to exceed that of the Pharisees. I don't see Jesus as trying to devote tremendous energy to trying to get the Jews to develop a righteousness in the law, or spending three whole chapters of a sermon just to illustrate the point that they could not. I see Him as trying to get them to develop a true righteousness in both word and deed. Added to this in time would be the revelation that His sacrifice had paid for their failings.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So I hope this topic is not about trying to get Christ's Church to think they have to let Christ's enemies just run over them.

Not to worry, Davy. That is a separate issue.