Passover vs Eucharist

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Marymog

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"sacrament of the Euchharist" is a man-made phrase, that is related to the CC.
Its not found in a Greek Text.
Trinity is a man made phrase and the 27 books of the NT were ‘man made’ since God did not leave a written list of what books are to be in our Scripture.....just sayin
 

Behold

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Trinity is a man made phrase and the 27 books of the NT were ‘man made’ since God did not leave a written list of what books are to be in our Scripture.....just sayin

The word "trinity" is not in the bible. However Matthew 28:19 is in the NT. "Father, Son, Holy Spirit".
So that's 3.
And 2nd Corinthians 13:14. "Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit"
There's more...

And regarding what is to be found in the bible...
well, .. we know the Torah is the Jew's word of God so, that would be in it, and we know the Apostle's letters would make up the body of the New Testament.
Where we have to have to have faith, is in the knowledge that God would control this, ultimately.
God is in charge of His word.

There are many reasons to believe that the Bible that we have is what we are supposed to have, but regarding the NT, one of the best ways to believe it, is because of Paul.
This person is the only Apostle that Christ revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God.
He is the only Apostle who died, saw Heaven, and came back and did more for God's Glory.
So, as this apostle did more then all the other Apostle's combined, it follows suit that his letters would constitute the majority of Church doctrine found in the NT. And this is what happened. Paul wrote most of the NT.
 

Marymog

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The word "trinity" is not in the bible. However Matthew 28:19 is in the NT. "Father, Son, Holy Spirit".
So that's 3.
And 2nd Corinthians 13:14. "Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit"
There's more...

And regarding what is to be found in the bible...
well, .. we know the Torah is the Jew's word of God so, that would be in it, and we know the Apostle's letters would make up the body of the New Testament.
Where we have to have to have faith, is in the knowledge that God would control this, ultimately.
God is in charge of His word.

There are many reasons to believe that the Bible that we have is what we are supposed to have, but regarding the NT, one of the best ways to believe it, is because of Paul.
This person is the only Apostle that Christ revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God.
He is the only Apostle who died, saw Heaven, and came back and did more for God's Glory.
So, as this apostle did more then all the other Apostle's combined, it follows suit that his letters would constitute the majority of Church doctrine found in the NT. And this is what happened. Paul wrote most of the NT.
So you trust men to bring you the proper Bible “that we are supposed to have” but you don’t trust men to bring you the proper sacrament of the Eucharist (which means thanksgiving in Greek) we are supposed to have? BTW....The sacrament of the Eucharist is re-enacting of The Last Supper of which we do in remembrance of Him....just like he told us to do.
 

Behold

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So you trust men to bring you the proper Bible “that we are supposed to have” but you don’t trust men to bring you the proper sacrament of the Eucharist .

First, i trust that God will preserve His word as intended.
God is really smart.
He understood, even before He created all creation through the "Word", who is Christ ..... that the entire world would eventually use the ENGLISH Language as the universally adopted , that is taught in all Countries.
So, He had His bible as an English Bible , originally as the "world wide" FREE BIBLE... knowing that ENGLISH would become the dominate language that is taught and learned, worldwide, not long after God had his manuscripts being translated into ENGLISH.
That is not an accident. That is not luck. That is providence. That is God's hand working.

Also, this phrase, "sacrament of the Eucharist", is a religious manmade term that elevates a cookie and a cup of juice to the status of GOD/Deity.
No bible or "church" created by God, will ever put such a devout LITERAL title on a symbolic situation that Christ said we are to do as a "remembrance of Me".
 

Marymog

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.

Also, this phrase, "sacrament of the Eucharist", is a religious manmade term that elevates a cookie and a cup of juice to the status of GOD/Deity.
No bible or "church" created by God, will ever put such a devout LITERAL title on a symbolic situation that Christ said we are to do as a "remembrance of Me".
Ummmmm.....Jesus elevated a “cookie” (bread) and a “cup of juice” (wine) and said it IS his body. Is His body not Deity?

He said it was his body. Several years later Paul affirms what He said in 1 Corinthians 10:16.
 

Illuminator

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First, i trust that God will preserve His word as intended.
God is really smart.
He understood, even before He created all creation through the "Word", who is Christ ..... that the entire world would eventually use the ENGLISH Language as the universally adopted , that is taught in all Countries.
So, He had His bible as an English Bible , originally as the "world wide" FREE BIBLE... knowing that ENGLISH would become the dominate language that is taught and learned, worldwide, not long after God had his manuscripts being translated into ENGLISH.
That is not an accident. That is not luck. That is providence. That is God's hand working.

Also, this phrase, "sacrament of the Eucharist", is a religious manmade term that elevates a cookie and a cup of juice to the status of GOD/Deity.
No bible or "church" created by God, will ever put such a devout LITERAL title on a symbolic situation that Christ said we are to do as a "remembrance of Me".
Firs5, Paul was always subject to the Church.
Second, "remembrance" in English robs the Judaic understanding of the term.

Luke 22:19; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 – the translation of Jesus’ words of consecration is “touto poieite tan eman anamnasin.” Jesus literally said “offer this as my memorial sacrifice.” The word “poiein” (do) refers to offering a sacrifice (see, e.g., Exodus 29:38-39, where God uses the same word – poieseis – regarding the sacrifice of the lambs on the altar). The word “anamnesis” (remembrance) also refers to a sacrifice which is really or actually made present in time by the power of God, as it reminds God of the actual event (see, e.g., Heb. 10:3; Num. 10:10). It is not just a memorial of a past event, but a past event made present in time.

In other words, the “sacrifice” is the “memorial” or “reminder.” If the Eucharist weren’t a sacrifice, Luke would have used the word “mnemosunon” (which is the word used to describe a nonsacrificial memorial. See, for example, Matt. 26:13; Mark 14:9; and especially Acts 10:4). So there are two memorials, one sacrificial (which Jesus instituted), and one non-sacrificial.

Lev. 24:7 – the word “memorial” in Hebrew in the sacrificial sense is “azkarah” which means to actually make present (see Lev. 2:2,9,16;5:12;6:5; Num.5:26 where “azkarah” refers to sacrifices that are currently offered and thus present in time). Jesus’ instruction to offer the bread and wine (which He changed into His body and blood) as a “memorial offering” demonstrates that the offering of His body and blood is made present in time over and over again.

Num. 10:10 – in this verse, “remembrance” refers to a sacrifice, not just a symbolic memorial. So Jesus’ command to offer the memorial “in remembrance” of Him demonstrates that the memorial offering is indeed a sacrifice currently offered. It is a re-presentation of the actual sacrifice made present in time. It is as if the curtain of history is drawn and Calvary is made present to us.

Mal. 1:10-11 – Jesus’ command to his apostles to offer His memorial sacrifice of bread and wine which becomes His body and blood fulfills the prophecy that God would reject the Jewish sacrifices and receive a pure sacrifice offered in every place. This pure sacrifice of Christ is sacramentally re-presented from the rising of the sun to its setting in every place, as Malachi prophesied.

Heb. 9:23 – in this verse, the author writes that the Old Testament sacrifices were only copies of the heavenly things, but now heaven has better “sacrifices” than these. Why is the heavenly sacrifice called “sacrifices,” in the plural? Jesus died once. This is because, while Christ’s sacrifice is transcendent in heaven, it touches down on earth and is sacramentally re-presented over and over again from the rising of the sun to its setting around the world by the priests of Christ’s Church. This is because all moments to God are present in their immediacy, and when we offer the memorial sacrifice to God, we ask God to make the sacrifice that is eternally present to Him also present to us. Jesus’ sacrifice also transcends time and space because it was the sacrifice of God Himself.

Rev. 5:6 – this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is “standing” as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.

Rev. 2:17 – the spiritual manna, our Lord’s glorious body and blood, is emphasized in the heavenly feast.

Rev. 3:20 – as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature. A mere symbol has no power to do this.

Rev. 5:6 – this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is “standing” as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.

Jesus eternally offers HIMSELF to the Father on our behalf in the form of Bread and Wine, not symbols.
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic.
 
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Behold

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Ummmmm.....Jesus elevated a “cookie” (bread) and a “cup of juice” (wine) and said it IS his body. Is His body not Deity?

He said it was his body. Several years later Paul affirms what He said in 1 Corinthians 10:16.

Jesus said this also.....>"eat my flesh and drink my blood" , whoever does this has eternal life.'""

So, all of this is on one hand Spiritual, yet symbolic.
Its a Spiritual communion, that is a spiritual sharing of the symbolic. Thats what we are doing when we "take" communion.

Look at the verses i posted....."whoever does this, has eternal life"...>"eat my flesh, and drinks my blood".

Well, in Leviticus, God told us that its an abomination to drink/eat Blood.
You are forbidden from drinking or eating "blood".
So, if we are not allowed to ingest blood, human, bat, goat, fetus, snake, or camel, blood, then you can't DRINK IT.

"but the cup of communion IS THE BLOOD, the REAL BLOOD"... the LITERAL BLOOD.....

So, you have a problem, do you see it?
Also, if you "eat the flesh of a human", you also have a problem.
Do you see it?

So, all this, is what happens when the symbolic is treated as literal, and no-one in certain cults has a true understanding of some spiritual realities and because of this what should be an honoring situation, turns into a religious circus..

How to you eat and drink, Jesus?
By FAITH.
See, its FAITH that you give God, who then comes to be IN YOU.....Himself.
Thats even better then a Cookie, don't you agree?

Also, "whoever does this has eternal life"..... This does not mean you are drinking eternal life from a cup and chewing in it your mouth.
It means that BECAUSE YOU HAVE IT ALREADY......this person will take the symbolic = communion.... that represents what you have, already.

Is communion a deeply spiritual moment? Yes.
Is it eternal life in a cup and the Literal God in heaven come down as a Cookie that came out of a bag, no.
 

Behold

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In other words, the “sacrifice” is the “memorial” or “reminder.”
If the Eucharist weren’t a sacrifice,remembrance” of Him demonstrates that the memorial offering is indeed a sacrifice currently offered.
.

God offers a Cross and His own BLOOD and DEATH, as THE "one time" Sacrifice for the Sin of the world.

To state that Yahweh offers a cookie and a cup of Juice as a 2nd "sacrifice", is to try to rob and deny Christ's Cross and Christ's Holy BLOOD of ALL the honor due it Alone, as being ALL that God offers, = Jesus's True Sacrifice of Himself for the sin of the World.
Don't apply to a cooke and a cup of juice the eternal redemptive value that is does not possess.
There is one Sacrifice, one Mediator, one sin offering, one eternal redemption, God provided for mankind.... and it is NOT the "sacrifice of the cookie and the Juice".
It is in fact GOD HIMSELF on the Cross.
 
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Illuminator

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God offers a Cross and His own BLOOD and DEATH, as a Sacrifice for the Sin of the world.
To state that He offers a cookie and a cup of Juice as a 2nd "sacrifice", is to try to rob and deny Christ's Cross and Christ's Holy BLOOD of ALL the honor due it Alone, as being ALL that God offers, as Jesus's True Sacrifice of Himself for the sin of the World.
Don't apply to a cooke and a cup of juice the value that is does not possess.
There is one Sacrifice, one Mediator, one sin offering, one eternal redemption, and it is NOT the "sacrifice of the cookie and the Juice".
The consecrated Bread and Wine at the last Passover supper is ONE AND THE SAME SACRIFICE as Calvary. This you fail to understand. The Passover required FOUR CUPS OF WINE. Why did Jesus delay the FOURTH CUP???
 
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Philip James

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How to you eat and drink, Jesus?
By FAITH.

Yes indeed.

Faith that Jesus is Who He is! Faith that He speaks the Truth! Faith that the Holy Spirit works in and through His Church, Faith of our fathers...


This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.

Peace!
 
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Behold

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Yes indeed.

Faith that Jesus is Who He is! Faith that He speaks the Truth! Faith that the Holy Spirit works in and through His Church, Faith of our fathers...
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.

Peace!

Yes indeed.
The true Bread came down from Heaven, and is now back in the same Glory as before.
Hes not in a bag of cookie or in a cup.
= Whoever eats this Living Bread.... yes indeed.....By Faith..... shall be Born again.
 

Marymog

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Jesus said this also.....>"eat my flesh and drink my blood" , whoever does this has eternal life.'""

So, all of this is on one hand Spiritual, yet symbolic.
Its a Spiritual communion, that is a spiritual sharing of the symbolic. Thats what we are doing when we "take" communion.
Paul disagrees with you (1 Corinthians 11:27).

How can one be guilty of eating a “symbol” in an unworthy manner? How can one be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord if it is just a “symbol”?

Curious Mary
 
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Marymog

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Well, in Leviticus, God told us that its an abomination to drink/eat Blood.
You are forbidden from drinking or eating "blood".
So, if we are not allowed to ingest blood, human, bat, goat, fetus, snake, or camel, blood, then you can't DRINK IT.

"but the cup of communion IS THE BLOOD, the REAL BLOOD"... the LITERAL BLOOD.....

So, you have a problem, do you see it?
Also, if you "eat the flesh of a human", you also have a problem.
Do you see it?
Hi Behold,

In the NT, at the Last Supper, Jesus told his Apostles that it IS his body and blood and to eat/drink it sooooooo, you have a problem, do YOU see it? I will give you a hint....You are calling Jesus a liar. He said it IS body/blood, you say it is only a symbol....Hmmmmm the dilemma you are in.

If you don’t eat His flesh you have no life in you...so you have a problem, do you see it? (John 6:53)

Bible study Mary
 
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Behold

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Paul disagrees with you (1 Corinthians 11:27).

How can one be guilty of eating a “symbol” in an unworthy manner? How can one be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord if it is just a “symbol”?

Curious Mary

Read carefully what i say, Marymog.
I said the cup and the bread are both spiritual and symbolic.
So, if you eat the communion, as some early believers did, as Paul is talking about, as if its LUNCH or DINNER< then you are not discerning the spiritual content of "communion".... and are not respecting a sacred symbolic act.
Fellowship with God is sacred.
Communion, Prayer, Praise, ...these are spiritual and are to be understood this way and respected.

This issue with the bread and the cup, is that millions give more respect to them then they actually do to the Son of God, Himself.
This is why Catholics don't talk about Jesus or the Cross on a Forum. They only talk about what is sacred to the Catholic faith.
Mary, and Communion.
Isnt that right "Marymog'?
Im not kidding, and you are not hearing me, because you are lost in what isn't to be esteemed the way you practice it.

This is because you and most Catholics have made an IDOL out of both.
 

Behold

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Hi Behold,

In the NT, at the Last Supper, Jesus told his Apostles that it IS his body and blood and to eat/drink it sooooooo, you have a problem, do YOU see it?

If Jesus is standing there, his Body is alive, his blood in it, ...is His body that piece of bread and His blood that wine?
Really?

Yes, i know you think it is, as you have been taught to believe this... for how many years?
 

Philip James

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This issue with the bread and the cup, is that millions give more respect to them then they actually do to the Son of God, Himself.

Hello Behold,

The 'bread and cup' are ' the Son of God, Himself'. Do you not see?
We are not honouring bread and wine, but Christ Himself.

Don't despair brother, ask for faith and it will be given to you!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

St. Therese, pray for us!
 
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Behold

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Hello Behold,

The 'bread and cup' are ' the Son of God, Himself'. Do you not see?
We are not honouring bread and wine, but Christ Himself.

Its fine to honor the communion, the bread and the wine.
Its sacrilege to say the communion is a Sacrifice, or eternal life, or the Literal Body and Blood of Jesus.
You are not to worship the communion, you are to partake of it, and respect its meaning.
Also, Mary is not praying for you, and the Little Flower does not know who you are, at this time.
 

Philip James

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Its sacrilege to say the communion is a Sacrifice,

1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."

~The Didache~



For 2000 years the Church has fulfilled Malachi 1:11. Offering the pure sacrifice given to her by Christ Himself.

When the hour had come..

Peace!

St Ignatius and St Polycarp, pray for us!
 
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