Pastor/teacher deserves a wage but should stop there.

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markalan

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Sometimes people do not appreciate the extra demands on a pastor's personal finances.
If you trust a man with the spiritual oversight of the church, then he should also be trusted in material things.

Are some religious leaders "greedy of filthy lucre"? Yes, and if that becomes apparent, it should be addressed by the church community.
 
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GeneZ

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Sometimes people do not appreciate the extra demands on a pastor's personal finances.
If you trust a man with the spiritual oversight of the church, then he should also be trusted in material things.

Are some religious leaders "greedy of filthy lucre"? Yes, and if that becomes apparent, it should be addressed by the church community.

A good pastor who studies and teaches will ultimately be the foundation for God prospering the pastor's flock.
It is their sharing with the pastor in their prosperity that takes place in effect.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Peter Andrew.
If a full-time Pastor is not happy with a fair/humble wage from his congregation/church then stop being a pastor and go get a job that satisfies your greed.
One of the members of our meeting related the following two incidents. His father was a Pentecostal and after his retirement and was going to go on a three month tour. Pentecostals are evidently strong on a one tenth tithe. His Pastor told him that he should pay up the three months of tithe even though he was not in attendance. His father claimed that on his tour he wanted to visit other churches and would like to give his tithe to that meeting at that time. The Pastor disagreed and this resulted in a complete falling out between his father and the Pastor.

My congregation member also relates that on another occasion he visited his father in his region. During the visit he had opportunity to sit in an open restaurant with a number of tables on the footpath. He sat near the Pastor who was in conversation with another Pastor and he overheard some of their conversation. They discussed how they could obtain more money. He did not relate exactly what was suggested, but I imagine that they could have discussed the Prosperity Doctrine. One of my workmates who was an ex-Baptist and now part time Pentecostal Pastor told me that he personally advocated the Prosperity Doctrine.

Kind regards
Trevor.
 

JimKnox

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Pastors are expected to raise their kids on beans and rice; clothe them in second hand thrift store rags, drive a 30 year old vehicle and live in a 2 bedroom single wide trailer.

Some of ya'll in this thread will have much to answer at the Judgement Seat of Christ.
 
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SavedInHim

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The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. However, nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it. Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage of it. Let's see, who should I listen to, greedy opportunists or the apostle Paul?
 
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ScottA

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The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. However, nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it. Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage of it. Let's see, who should I listen to, greedy opportunists or the apostle Paul?
Things would certainly appear to be more complex these days, and rightly so, we have more information ("knowledge shall increase"). So that increase means an increase in the overall landscape of discerning factors.

Even so, Paul simply had another job and made his own money. One could say that lets any would-be worker off the hook, if they just have other sources of income. Which doesn't actually make for a clear indication of who is to be regarded as true or a good servant worthy of his wage. Thus, it is all still a matter of discerning, which has its own problems. Many "claim" to have Holy Spirit discernment--but even that is suspect when there are a thousand+ different views, each with scriptural claims. Again, it comes down to discernment.

But what is the biblical track record, or since then within the church? Israel's would-be best learned could not discern the coming of Messiah, and the church can only agree within limits.

Where does that bring us--that is, if we are even paying attention and noting all the past and present failures? It puts us in the same shoes, the same hot seat--and what--we're better than those who went before? Yeah, right! No, God has set before us all a need for each of us to choose...and no, we are not likely to be better, and the scriptures declare it. Is it any wonder many passages include "if", giving what will happen "if" we choose incorrectly? And when has any generation taken a stand and said, "We will not lean on our own understanding"--actually?

So...the warnings are there in the scriptures (false teachers, strong delusion, etc.) for a reason...and so is the track record of failures. And what that leaves, is that "narrow way" less taken. Just as it has always been.

Meanwhile, Solomon had more money not his own than anyone, Paul had another job, and workers come in all shapes and sizes.
 
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markalan

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They discussed how they could obtain more money. He did not relate exactly what was suggested, but I imagine that they could have discussed the Prosperity Doctrine. One of my workmates who was an ex-Baptist and now part time Pentecostal Pastor told me that he personally advocated the Prosperity Doctrine.

The "Prosperity Gospel" comes in for a lot of criticism, and rightly so as it is preached by some.

For most of us, we are materially prosperous compared to the poorest people in the poorest countries ... and we should thank God for that prosperity and use it to provide for our family and contribute to the work of God.
 

PeterAndroz

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Sometimes people do not appreciate the extra demands on a pastor's personal finances.
If you trust a man with the spiritual oversight of the church, then he should also be trusted in material things.

Are some religious leaders "greedy of filthy lucre"? Yes, and if that becomes apparent, it should be addressed by the church community.
""Sometimes people do not appreciate the extra demands on a pastor's personal finances."""
A full time Pastor of a church/congregation deserves a fair & just wage but not a luxury lifestyle simply because he is a Pastor
 

PeterAndroz

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The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. However, nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it. Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage of it. Let's see, who should I listen to, greedy opportunists or the apostle Paul?
""The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. ""
Correct
..
nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it
Correct again
..
Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage
3 out of 3 :gd
 

markalan

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""Sometimes people do not appreciate the extra demands on a pastor's personal finances."""
A full time Pastor of a church/congregation deserves a fair & just wage but not a luxury lifestyle simply because he is a Pastor

Where I live, a million dollar house is not a luxury lifestyle ... though having two might be.
 
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PeterAndroz

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Where I live, a million dollar house is not a luxury lifestyle ... though having two might be.
Agreed.
Plus no-one should unfairly judge a Pastor for having/buying/working towards a home to suit the size of his family
eg 3 bedroom, lounge, kitchen, family room, carport/garage for a 4 or 5 person family is not unreasonable nor greedy.
Greed would be wanting individual rooms for everyone with en-suite, walk in robes, pool, spa etc etc etc.
Would not be a good look for someone preaching GOD while others are in poverty/homeless.
 
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lforrest

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If we judge others might God Judge us by the standard we use? Let's say someone has $1m in disposable income and buys a boat docked at a marina because they like to go fishing. Then someone with $1k disposable income buys a kayak for the same purpose. Who has sinned?
 

GeneZ

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The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. However, nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it. Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage of it. Let's see, who should I listen to, greedy opportunists or the apostle Paul?
Unlike many today.

Paul actually knew how to teach the Bible.

An excellent pastor is difficult to find.

God provided me with this one.

https://rbthieme.org/about-us

Pastors have ordered his messages for their private study.

https://rbthieme.org/about-us/grace-financial-policy

grace and peace .........
 

JimKnox

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The scripture says a worker is worth his wages. However, nowadays many like to take advantage of that and see how far they can take it. Paul was the exact opposite; he looked for ways he could avoid taking advantage of it. Let's see, who should I listen to, greedy opportunists or the apostle Paul?
You seem to be saying ALL pastors are seeking filthy lucre.
I don't think you actually believe the Bible.
 

GeneZ

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You seem to be saying ALL pastors are seeking filthy lucre.
I don't think you actually believe the Bible.

It could be he may be in a very bad area for churches.
It is hard to find a good teaching church these days.
Too many attend to simply be with other believers, not good teaching.
 

JimKnox

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It could be he may be in a very bad area for churches.
It is hard to find a good teaching church these days.
Too many attend to simply be with other believers, not good teaching.
That's a valid eventuality.