Paul’s very clear warning about today’s #1 disastrous doctrine

[H. Richard]

i have a question....

why do you all discuss what paul wrote when discussing issues regarding sins?

***
Because Paul's message was not law, it was grace. In this age of God's grace sins of the flesh (and Paul listed them) are not counted against the children of God who walk in the spirit (faith in Jesus work on the cross). Jesus' shed blood cleanses them from ALL sins of the flesh.

The common man will say that it is impossible for a person to walk in the spirit and in the flesh at the same time but that is the way it is. (see Romans 7)

 

[bbyrd009]

***
Because Paul's message was not law, it was grace. In this age of God's grace sins of the flesh (and Paul listed them) are not counted against the children of God who walk in the spirit (faith in Jesus work on the cross). Jesus' shed blood cleanses them from ALL sins of the flesh.

when you perform certain acts, yes; it is not unconditional.

The common man will say that it is impossible for a person to walk in the spirit and in the flesh at the same time but that is the way it is. (see Romans 7)

imo this is torturing Rom7 pretty much to death. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." You are either walking in the flesh, or the spirit, but i don't think you can make a case for doing both at the same time. While i agree that we are "two men in a bed," and might fall into acting out of the flesh, it is confessing your sins to those you sin against that absolves you and brings you back to the spirit, not confessing to God alone in your room, or to a third party. Jesus will not save you, if you do not confess your sins one to another.

If you cannot say that you are sorry, then you are going to hear "I never knew you;" and if you are able to humble yourself when you are in the wrong in this manner, then you are going to be accepted, regardless of the name that you give it.


The common man will say that it is impossible for a person to walk in the spirit and in the flesh at the same time but that is the way it is. (see Romans 7)

 

[H. Richard]

when you perform certain acts, yes; it is not unconditional.


imo this is torturing Rom7 pretty much to death. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." You are either walking in the flesh, or the spirit, but i don't think you can make a case for doing both at the same time. While i agree that we are "two men in a bed," and might fall into acting out of the flesh, it is confessing your sins to those you sin against that absolves you and brings you back to the spirit, not confessing to God alone in your room, or to a third party. Jesus will not save you, if you do not confess your sins one to another.

If you cannot say that you are sorry, then you are going to hear "I never knew you;" and if you are able to humble yourself when you are in the wrong in this manner, then you are going to be accepted, regardless of the name that you give it.

The common man will say that it is impossible for a person to walk in the spirit and in the flesh at the same time but that is the way it is. (see Romans 7)

***
No it isn't! The word of God under grace is not law keeping. Jesus said that if you do not forgive others your sins will not be forgiven. This was said to those under the law. Paul make it clear that today, under grace, we are not under the law..

I Isiah 53:6 it states the following;
Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV


Gal 1:4-5
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV

Heb 1:3
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
NKJV

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
NKJV

But I understand that the religious do not want people to see that all the sins of mankind were paid for on the cross. Because if they did they would be out of business.


Rom 7:24-25
24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?
25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

Every child of God says the same thing, "who can save them from their sinful body" and like Paul they thank God for Jesus Christ; God's gift to mankind.

 

[Zachary]

Jesus said that if you do not forgive others your sins will not be forgiven.
This was said to those under the law.
Paul make it clear that today, under grace, we are not under the law..

Are we to believe that Jesus' words are NOT for us today?
How does unforgiveness stack up against being a habitual liar?

Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

BTW, few believers today understand that "overcoming" in Revelation refers to overcoming sins!
As in the letters to the 7 churches (Rev 2-3).
This will be dealt with deeply (from a book by David Wilkerson) in a week or so.

 

[H. Richard]

Are we to believe that Jesus' words are NOT for us today?
How does unforgiveness stack up against being a habitual liar?

Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

BTW, few believers today understand that "overcoming" in Revelation refers to overcoming sins!
As in the letters to the 7 churches (Rev 2-3).
This will be dealt with deeply (from a book by David Wilkerson) in a week or so.

Are we to believe that Jesus' words are NOT for us today?
How does unforgiveness stack up against being a habitual liar?

If you wish to be under the law then believe they are for you today. You can't seem to see that Jesus only came to the Jews and when they rejected Him He went out to the whole world with a message of grace thru Paul.. He said so in two places. But you read those places but can't seem to see them.

Jesus came to fulfill all that was written about Him. He did not preach that a time would come that He, Himself, would atone for all the sins of the world. After all the Jew were given the law and they said they would keep them. The law was never given to the Gentiles. Paul's message,. given to him by Jesus Himself stated that the world was not under the law anymore but under grace. But people can't seem to understand grace. They seem to think it is grace with law and that can not exist together.

People must make up their own mind, are they to place their faith in their own works to not sin OR place their faith in the one that has already atoned for their sins. The choice is theirs but I would seriously doubt if they weigh the possible results of their choice. --- If the shed blood of Jesus on the cross atoned for the sins of the whole world as the scriptures tell us.and people insist that He didn't and teach other that He didn't, they are in danger of hell's fire as the scripture states.

Heb 10:28-31
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
NKJV

 

[Zachary]

You can't seem to see that Jesus only came to the Jews and when they rejected Him He went out to the whole world with a message of grace thru Paul.. He said so in two places. But you read those places but can't seem to see them. Jesus came to fulfill all that was written about Him. He did not preach that a time would come that He, Himself, would atone for all the sins of the world. After all the Jew were given the law and they said they would keep them. The law was never given to the Gentiles. Paul's message,. given to him by Jesus Himself stated that the world was not under the law anymore but under grace. But people can't seem to understand grace. They seem to think it is grace with law and that can not exist together.

You can't seem to see that Jesus only came to the Jews because He only had 3 1/2 years,
and not decades to go the Gentiles living at dat time!
And ...
You can't seem to see that Jesus' words were meant for all people for all time.
You can't seem to see that you evidently are not a Christian.

 

[mjrhealth]

You can't seem to see that Jesus' words were meant for all people for all time.

They werent, teh Jews where under the law, us gentiles came to Christ under grace, the law Kills people it can do no more, it has not and never will save anyone. To strive after the law is to reject Gods grace.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

and

Mar_2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Luk_5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

There are lots trying to mix law and grace togeteher, its like water and oil they dont mix.

 

[H. Richard]

You can't seem to see that Jesus only came to the Jews because He only had 3 1/2 years,
and not decades to go the Gentiles living at dat time!
And ...
You can't seem to see that Jesus' words were meant for all people for all time.
You can't seem to see that you evidently are not a Christian.

***
Very good Zachary so now you are God and can judge me.

Your rational about the 3-1/2 years is just an assumption that may very well lead you to a false conclusion.

Jesus gave Paul a message that was HIDDEN in God but you just will not accept it as being the truth.

You are making Jesus to be a liar when you say His words to the Jews were to all people.

You are right in your conclusion that I am not a Christian as you believe a christian to be.. Those who claim to be Christian are using a theology that blends what Jesus said to those under the law into the gospel of Grace that Jesus gave to Paul. I am not one of those Christians. I am a child of God, made a child by the work of Jesus on the cross. I could care less about your judgement about me. I know the one that has saved me.

Open your eyes and see what Jesus said.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

After seeing the words in verse 24 above you will see but not believe the word of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

***
No it isn't!

sorry, no what isn't? specifically?

The word of God under grace is not law keeping. Jesus said that if you do not forgive others your sins will not be forgiven. This was said to those under the law. Paul make it clear that today, under grace, we are not under the law..

yes, you are not subject to the law, meaning you will not be stoned for blasphemy, or otherwise die for some minor sin, which is the wages of sin--death. But Paul also makes it clear that you are not then free to go about breaking the Law. Grace allows for works of rebound and forgiveness, if a believer avails themselves of them, but if they do not, how might Grace function in that model? Forgive, and you will be forgiven, surely--but from what? You must fulfill the law; really it is the bare minimum you should do. But this does not mean that you are subject to the law, or you would be dead already, almost surely, right. And a person subject to the law would also not need to forgive to be forgiven, right, because that is Grace, not Law.

"Go, and sin no more" would be moot if there was no Law to fulfill; what would "sin" then even mean, in that context?

So there is a difference in "subject to the Law" and "fulfills the Law" that allows for works unto repentance if they are manifest, and does not allow for Grace if they are not.

20b...I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.
10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.

1Therefore, leaving the elementary message about the Messiah, let us go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God,

See, what we are discussing is the most elementary message about the Messiah here, and you cannot meet Him in the air if you do not practice works unto rebound (repentance) when you break the Law.
Now, just like a child, when you seek Grace for sins that you are not aware of, Grace will be granted you, if you are practicing Grace, and doing works unto rebound. But if you are not a hypocrite there should eventually come a time when you no longer commit sins--breaking the Law--that you are not aware of, too.

A sign that you have gotten close is when you spend very little of your day re-laying the foundation with others, and you almost never discuss sin and death with anyone any more. And until one assimilates this, sin and death will come up in every conversation one has about God, i guess.

Now i fully expect to still commit some sins--mostly of omission, now--even in the course of manifesting Christ in some new manner, because i am not perfect; i am likely to overlook that some action of mine will have some consequence that i did not foresee. But the cure for that is not to go ask Jesus to forgive me, but the one i sinned against. That is the only way Grace is manifest. There is no other way to manifest Grace. Jesus cannot forgive you for unrepented sin, period. And you must forgive even the unrepentant.

So above all, do not kid yourself that you can commit some small sin, stealing someone's lunch from the fridge or whatever, and then go ask Jesus or some guy to forgive you, and you will be forgiven. That is nowhere in Scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.



4 who gave Himself for our sins, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
NKJV

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
NKJV

But I understand that the religious do not want people to see that all the sins of mankind were paid for on the cross. Because if they did they would be out of business.


Rom 7:24-25
24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?
25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

Every child of God says the same thing, "who can save them from their sinful body" and like Paul they thank God for Jesus Christ; God's gift to mankind.

yes, and anyone can witness the change that occurs when a sinner admits his sin openly, one to another, and says they are sorry and won't do it again, and offers to fix it, all without getting all religious or pleading the blood of Christ or any of that empty yack, that means nothing and will not save them. That is when Christ takes on your sin, and makes it right with God for you, and not before. And a simple way to see this is just take someone's lunch, and then ask Jesus or some guy you call father to forgive you, and then the next day admit that you stole someone's lunch, but that you have already been forgiven by Jesus or the guy you call father, and see how that goes over with the person you stole the lunch from; or anyone else in earshot, for that matter.

So you might be all high on tares, and imagining that you are good with God and actually be spiritually dead, sitting there alone, now, eating your lunch, because gee nobody wants to sit with you now, because you are spiritually dead. And you could pray to Jesus until you are really dead, but it will not save you; when a simple admission and apology would.

 

[Zachary]

So, you have a PP (prominent poster) here who insists that Jesus' words were NOT for us today!
I actually thought this was a Christian forum ... wrong again, I guess.

 

[H. Richard]

sorry, no what isn't? specifically?

yes, you are not subject to the law, meaning you will not be stoned for blasphemy, or otherwise die for some minor sin, which is the wages of sin--death. But Paul also makes it clear that you are not then free to go about breaking the Law. Grace allows for works of rebound and forgiveness, if a believer avails themselves of them, but if they do not, how might Grace function in that model? Forgive, and you will be forgiven, surely--but from what? You must fulfill the law; really it is the bare minimum you should do. But this does not mean that you are subject to the law, or you would be dead already, almost surely, right. And a person subject to the law would also not need to forgive to be forgiven, right, because that is Grace, not Law.

"Go, and sin no more" would be moot if there was no Law to fulfill; what would "sin" then even mean, in that context?

So there is a difference in "subject to the Law" and "fulfills the Law" that allows for works unto repentance if they are manifest, and does not allow for Grace if they are not.

20b...I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.
10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.

1Therefore, leaving the elementary message about the Messiah, let us go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God,

See, what we are discussing is the most elementary message about the Messiah here, and you cannot meet Him in the air if you do not practice works unto rebound (repentance) when you break the Law.
Now, just like a child, when you seek Grace for sins that you are not aware of, Grace will be granted you, if you are practicing Grace, and doing works unto rebound. But if you are not a hypocrite there should eventually come a time when you no longer commit sins--breaking the Law--that you are not aware of, too.

A sign that you have gotten close is when you spend very little of your day re-laying the foundation with others, and you almost never discuss sin and death with anyone any more. And until one assimilates this, sin and death will come up in every conversation one has about God, i guess.

Now i fully expect to still commit some sins--mostly of omission, now--even in the course of manifesting Christ in some new manner, because i am not perfect; i am likely to overlook that some action of mine will have some consequence that i did not foresee. But the cure for that is not to go ask Jesus to forgive me, but the one i sinned against. That is the only way Grace is manifest. There is no other way to manifest Grace. Jesus cannot forgive you for unrepented sin, period. And you must forgive even the unrepentant.

So above all, do not kid yourself that you can commit some small sin, stealing someone's lunch from the fridge or whatever, and then go ask Jesus or some guy to forgive you, and you will be forgiven. That is nowhere in Scripture.

***
So if you commit a sin; no let us say when you commit a sin, you have to get your repentance card out and have it punched, right?

You forget that a child of God does not keep him/her self a child of God, God does that.

You have stated your idea about repentance after becoming a child of God and I have stated mine. The truth is that those that preach repentance are preaching it to others because those that preach it never see themselves ever needing to repent. It is always the other person.

Your message is not grace. It is a message of bondage where a person never knows if they have repented enough.

I am grateful to Jesus that I have been set free of the sins of my flesh. But you can't say that.

 

[H. Richard]

So, you have a PP (prominent poster) here who insists that Jesus' words were NOT for us today!
I actually thought this was a Christian forum ... wrong again, I guess.

***
Zachary, I see what you have written and I know why you wrote them.. I am a child of God made one because I believe in what Jesus did for me on the cross. But many never write about what Jesus did for them on the cross. All they write about is what they do for Jesus.

I don't see many who have plucked out an eye or cut off a hand. Do you? Matt 5:29-30

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
NKJV

Since you think what Jesus said to be for you instead of repentance just cut off a hand.

A label is what people use to define something. It is not what God uses. God does not call anyone a christian, He calls them His children.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Repentance" is actually a very poor translation, anyway; there is no penance involved at all, in "changing your mind." http://biblehub.com/greek/3340.htm

 

[bbyrd009]

***
So if you commit a sin; no let us say when you commit a sin, you have to get your repentance card out and have it punched, right?

You forget that a child of God does not keep him/her self a child of God, God does that.

You have stated your idea about repentance after becoming a child of God and I have stated mine. The truth is that those that preach repentance are preaching it to others because those that preach it never see themselves ever needing to repent. It is always the other person.

Your message is not grace. It is a message of bondage where a person never knows if they have repented enough.

I am grateful to Jesus that I have been set free of the sins of my flesh. But you can't say that.

so i wouldn't say that i am preaching repentance, exactly, but yes, you have to change your mind if you are breaking any Laws. And you illuminate why penance is insufficient, whereas confessing your sins "one to another" is. Once you have humbled yourself and confessed your sin in the same forum where you committed it, you don't have to be guessing whether or not you have repented enough, even if your sincere apology and offer to make it right is not accepted. That is Grace. That is how you accept Christ. Forgive, even if they cannot apologize, because ego, and apologize, even if they cannot forgive.

Now i still likely agree with you in some measure about those who preach repentance, but i suspect it is often undertaken earnestly enough, even if it is the wrong message.
People don't wake up one day deciding to mislead others in the pursuit of a closer walk with God, i don't think; at least most of them. But i think it is the same model that offers you some magic affiliation with God, by performing a checklist of altar works to accomplish to become a "child of God," The bonus part there is you come in brand-new, and voila you are a Child of God, so now i guess all those parts of Scripture that might reveal to you where your heart needs to change--Cain, Esau, two men in a bed, etc--are now spiritually removed from you too, and no longer apply, either. Because your "child of God" card got punched?

And i heard you guys chatting about this elsewhere--the standard then becomes "you gotta really believe," (no finger-crossies allowed) because "confessing your sins one to another" has been negated, see, you are excused from having to humble yourself and apologize when you wrong someone now because Jesus took care of all that at the Cross. The standard, just like "repentance," gets all confused, and becomes about how gushingly you can talk about Jesus, and how He saved you, that moment when you became a Child of God, right. When you accepted Christ with your mouth. because you even have a verse that tells you that confession is good enough, huh. As long as you get to define "confession," you're good there?

But yes, i am with you on those who re-lay the foundation, over and over, although it seems to me that you are holding on to their most important premise, that confessing faith in Christ alone will somehow save you, when this should obviously be tempered by other Passages.

 

[shnarkle]

***
No it isn't! The word of God under grace is not law keeping. Jesus said that if you do not forgive others your sins will not be forgiven. This was said to those under the law. Paul make it clear that today, under grace, we are not under the law..

I Isiah 53:6 it states the following;
Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV


Gal 1:4-5
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV

Heb 1:3
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
NKJV

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
NKJV

But I understand that the religious do not want people to see that all the sins of mankind were paid for on the cross. Because if they did they would be out of business.


Rom 7:24-25
24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?
25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

Every child of God says the same thing, "who can save them from their sinful body" and like Paul they thank God for Jesus Christ; God's gift to mankind.

Yep, so true! A good friend of mine was just saying how he was freed from the law to leave his wife because he was now married to Christ. Although now that I think of it, divorce was allowed in the old testament as well. I guess that's what Paul means when he says that "faith establishes the law", or that he's "under the law to Christ". Christ came under the law so we can completely ignore the gospels as well as all those places where Paul upholds the law as well, which pretty much leaves the entire bible to the Jews.

Paul also makes a distinction between being under the law verses being outside the law as well as those who are a law unto themselves showing the law manifesting naturally in their conscience. I guess he's just pointing out all of those gentiles who are really just jews under the law, right?

What I find so amazing is how anyone can mistake the fact that for Paul to point out that no one is justified by keeping the law is in no way suggesting that he is doing away with the law. The law was never intended to justify anyone. That was never the purpose of the law. The fact that Paul is rejecting a false purpose being applied to the law doesn't negate it's true purpose.

This idea that we are no longer able to sin because Christ did away with the law is ludicrous. Christ saves us from sin by his sinless life and the sacrifice of his life. To then say that he did away with the law he himself upheld is a mockery of his death. If there is no law then there is no sin and no need for a savior to begin with. How can he save us while we were yet still sinners if there is no longer any law to transgress?

Is this why so many professing Christians are fornicating to their hearts content? Because there is no longer any law against fornication or adultery?

 

[shnarkle]

***
Zachary, I see what you have written and I know why you wrote them.. I am a child of God made one because I believe in what Jesus did for me on the cross. But many never write about what Jesus did for them on the cross. All they write about is what they do for Jesus.

I don't see many who have plucked out an eye or cut off a hand. Do you? Matt 5:29-30

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
NKJV

Since you think what Jesus said to be for you instead of repentance just cut off a hand.

A label is what people use to define something. It is not what God uses. God does not call anyone a christian, He calls them His children.

Still using a label, and one that doesn't really fit anyone in this forum. No one is cutting off their hands or plucking out their eyes because no one in this forum is interested in what Jesus has to say anyways. We all think we can just confess that Jesus is our savior and that's it; we're saved. Calling him Lord is a different story because that requires that we do what he asks us to do. No one does what Jesus asks us to do because no one cares what Jesus says. No one is going to step out in faith and rely on God's providence when we can quite easily rely on our own works to sustain our lives. We can sit back and point fingers at all those who think they need to work their way to salvation, yet we are the first one's to defend our own works when it comes to working to feed ourselves. How many are willing to listen to Jesus as he points out that unless you forsake all you CANNOT be one of his disciples? Why would he point out that we don't need to worry about how we will be fed or clothed if he was only asking us to think about it, or be willing, or to just not put too much emphasis on our financial security? No, he pointed that out to them because they were worried about how they were going to feed themselves without a job the next day. The authors of the gospels give us a clear picture of what it truly means to be a disciple of Christ. They show people just simply walking away from their jobs to follow Christ.

Those illustrations are awe inspiring! They are supposed to motivate us to want to do the same thing. Doesn't anyone want to just drop their job and place their faith in God's providence rather than in relying on our own works? Jesus is telling us that the Father of the universe, Who's idea it was to create this whole wonderful universe, the same one who is going to raise up the faithful on the last day to eternal life is going to provide for our needs when we leave our current employer and come work for Him. Doesn't anyone want to work for God? Doesn't anyone see that Mammon is a horrible employer? You don't even have to believe in God to do this!!! You just have to believe that what Jesus is saying is the truth!!! If you don't believe Jesus is it because you think he's a liar???

Here's what your bible should say: "For God so loved the world that he sent Billy Graham, John McArthur, Creflo Dollar, Kent Hovind, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland that whoever believed upon them would have eternal life". None of them will ever preach that people should give away their money except if they give it to them. They will never preach to give your money away to the poor or to quit your jobs.

 

[bbyrd009]

And what have they done to the definition of "seed?" Yikes. Has your "seed" become money now?

 

[Graceismine]

***
Because Paul's message was not law, it was grace. In this age of God's grace sins of the flesh (and Paul listed them) are not counted against the children of God who walk in the spirit (faith in Jesus work on the cross). Jesus' shed blood cleanses them from ALL sins of the flesh.

The common man will say that it is impossible for a person to walk in the spirit and in the flesh at the same time but that is the way it is. (see Romans 7)

Why this Scripture? "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1John 1:9

I think the OP alluded to a heretical teaching that has become popular in the church today that we refer to as "Hypergrace".
Jesus died on the cross as a substitution for we sinners who should have been punished. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23. While we have been redeemed and our past and present sins were forgiven, we have not been forgiven for sins that we have not yet committed. We are however through the blood of Christ standing in a forgiven state before God.

Hypergrace or easy believism would say that all of our sins are forgiven past, present and future. If our future sins have been forgiven there is no need to go before the Father and ask forgiveness so we can live it up as we like. Being born again does not stop us from sinning, we do sin but we do not live in a sinful state. If we do I would question our standing with God.

It is one thing to commit a sin (have a one night stand) take it to the Lord in repentance, confess it as sin. It is another thing to claim to be a christian and live in an adulteress relationship or any other sinful state.

Antinomianism has been in the church forever it seems. Hypergrace is a form of that and has raised its ugly head. Paul addressed it: Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[mjrhealth]

Hypergrace.. hmm

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

But now we have christians runnung around condemned by there sin ,because apparently Christ grace is apparently not sufficient

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Do you know why, even after coming to Christ we still sin, because He never came to stop us sinning but to take away teh condemnation because we are proud arrogant people and end up sounding just liek this man.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Or as Paul (i think) put it

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

or

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That is why when we walik in teh spirit

Life in the Spirit

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

ARe we free to gainfully run around sinning as so many love to put it, No, but it sets us free so we can live, we cant live if sin condemns us, if sin is condemning us than He has not set you free because you dont believe.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.