Paul And The Law

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brakelite

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For the real sake of Christ, you Protestant Americans will have to get that wall built or be swept off the map by them a-coming Catholics, FCOL!
More truth in that than meets the eye. American protestants have a short memory. Their grandparents were beaten up by Catholic gangs forbidding free speech. Many of them were Knights of Columbus. Those scurrying across the border now are another kettle of fish altogether.
 
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Dave L

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:D The more I read this thread the more I find I am getting confused.

..View attachment 4815
As I understand, people are born bad. Law forces them to act good under threat of loss. And they normally prosper for acting good. This was the case in OT Israel as today in any law abiding nation. People did good things for the wrong reason.

In the New Birth, God turns us into loving people who do good things for the right reason. So we naturally live in harmony with the Law. If you remove the Law, the wicked get worse. But the born again would keep on living harmoniously with it.
 
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Dave L

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a better way for you to say this would be that you hate the idea of sin, and so you have adopted a dogma that allows you to ignore your own sin, and ignore anyone who seeks to point it out.
But at least you get to sing "When we all get to heaven" for a little while longer, Dave; that's totally ok right, singing "When we all get to heaven?"
No sin in that right
:rolleyes:

you are just like me Dave, except i am a hypocrite, so maybe not
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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sorry Dave, but this is horse-puckey, and self-deception, period.
You sin from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to sleep, every day, and so do i ok
we just justify it--and ps whenever Scripture says "justify" it is a bad thing, not a good one--and since all of our friends are justifying it too, we become blind to it. You are consuming vast amounts of plastic every day, you drive a car, you buy goods made by slaves, you fill your car with gas bought from terrorists, you worship Sol Invictus, when you say "church" you have a direction that you might point, on and on, if you had any conscience left i could make you cry for all of your sins in about 3 minutes ok. You are likely anxious to see a literal Wall built across your southern (imaginary) "border," for Christ's sake lol
Temptation is not sin. We do not yield to temptation if we walk in the Spirit.
 

bbyrd009

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As I understand, people are born bad. Law forces them to act good under threat of loss. And they normally prosper for acting good. This was the case in OT Israel as today in any law abiding nation. People did good things for the wrong reason.
wrong from the first assertion down wadr, as any realistic endview of "prosper OT" will reveal, on the run here though, but if you can Quote this OT prospering from the NT i'll respond
In the New Birth, God turns us into loving people who do good things for the right reason. So we naturally live in harmony with the Law.
unfortunately what usually happens is we get "converted" and become twice the sons of hell with seven worse spirits, get a fat dose of tares and start imagining that God is going to do things to us without our volition being involved, without us changing our minds, which is how you get believers confidently telling you that if you pick up your cross you will die--not realizing that that is the point--and the many other variations of Nehushtan Worship we witness today
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)
you don't have to answer the Q Dave. Yet.
keep avoiding it for now, no sweat
Temptation is not sin. We do not yield to temptation if we walk in the Spirit.
if you don't address the post you can pretend none of that was about you at all, huh. So while of course i don't disagree with your Pious Statement there, it is also impertinent and functionally irrelevant to the discussion that we are not really even having, Dave. Ty for tagging me to Pontificate?
Or i mean what do you expect me to say to that now, "oh thank you Dave, you are so wise?"

so once again, unless you actually respond meaningfully, the last word is yours here k have a good day
 
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Dave L

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Byrd, try making yourself more understandable and I'll know better how to reply.
 
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Dave L

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wrong from the first assertion down wadr, as any realistic endview of "prosper OT" will reveal, on the run here though, but if you can Quote this OT prospering from the NT i'll respond
unfortunately what usually happens is we get "converted" and become twice the sons of hell with seven worse spirits, get a fat dose of tares and start imagining that God is going to do things to us without our volition being involved, without us changing our minds, which is how you get believers confidently telling you that if you pick up your cross you will die--not realizing that that is the point--and the many other variations of Nehushtan Worship we witness today

you don't have to answer the Q Dave. Yet.
keep avoiding it for now, no sweat

if you don't address the post you can pretend none of that was about you at all, huh. So while of course i don't disagree with your Pious Statement there, it is also impertinent and functionally irrelevant to the discussion that we are not really even having, Dave. Ty for tagging me to Pontificate?
Or i mean what do you expect me to say to that now, "oh thank you Dave, you are so wise?"

so once again, unless you actually respond meaningfully, the last word is yours here k have a good day
How would you answer your own question? It will help me understand it better.
 

bbyrd009

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Byrd, try making yourself more understandable and I'll know better how to reply.
um, prolly best this way Dave, what you believe right now is ok with me, and God prolly has a better idea what you should be working on anyway. It might be that i am not so clear to you right now for a reason, too, but i mean i don't mind clarifying some snip if you ask, which pls notice you did not do, right? See how giving me advice instead puts you...in a diff light?

So you might also see how i am just doing myself harm by telling you that asking me for a rephrase would be completely understandable due to my writing style, when i get so much crucial info from your preferred response?
(and let the reader understand here; Paul would put this in such a way that the hearer would be like saying "you're welcome for the crucial info" lol)
 

Episkopos

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Colossians 2:14


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul had several great confrontations in his life which I think were bitter and difficult. Every one of them was over the issue of law.
Paul never had a problem over God's grace. It is the same today, you never hear of those that are in grace kicking others out of their fellowship.
It is always the law that separates and divides us. In law there is only divisiveness because that is the very center of law.
The Apostle Paul had the supreme test of battling law.
When the gospel went to the Gentiles it was a gospel that had no law in it.
It was easy dealing with the Gentiles, but at the same time the Lord told Paul to tell Israel this was their opportunity to be saved also.
This is how the Jewish person comes into the plan of God today. The Kingdom is set aside and will not be restored until the Millennium.

The same message that went to the Gentiles, without the law, also went to Israel.
During Paul's time, two inconceivable things took place.
Paul who knew nothing but the law, converted to God's grace.
At the same time, Paul had to go to a people that were so deeply steeped in law and committed to it that they would kill to maintain their law.
To make sure you hear it clearly, read these words in Ephesians 2:15

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If grace is mixed with law, then it is no longer grace. So we say how do we handle sins of the flesh if there is no law.
It is handled the same way Paul handled it, by the preaching of the gospel.
God's cross is still the only liberator that exists.
Your law keeping, law doing, and law preaching will not set the captive free.

The law that Paul is talking about is not the law of God...but the holiness laws of Moses...or... JUDAISM.

Does love not fulfill the law of God? Love does not transgress the law. But we can love without Judaism.
 
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Dave L

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um, prolly best this way Dave, what you believe right now is ok with me, and God prolly has a better idea what you should be working on anyway. It might be that i am not so clear to you right now for a reason, too, but i mean i don't mind clarifying some snip if you ask, which pls notice you did not do, right? See how giving me advice instead puts you...in a diff light?

So you might also see how i am just doing myself harm by telling you that asking me for a rephrase would be completely understandable due to my writing style, when i get so much crucial info from your preferred response?
(and let the reader understand here; Paul would put this in such a way that the hearer would be like saying "you're welcome for the crucial info" lol)
Perhaps someone who understands you better could repackage what you are trying to say?
 

Episkopos

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Perhaps someone who understands you better could repackage what you are trying to say?
Bbyrd is saying that you are speaking from a shallow veneer of religiosity and avoiding the real issues. And since this is in fact the case, he is going way over your head, so to speak.

Does that sound about right Bbyrd?
 
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Dave L

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Bbyrd is saying that you are speaking from a shallow veneer of religiosity and avoiding the real issues. And since this is in fact the case, he is going way over your head, so to speak.

Does that sound about right Bbyrd?
Could you explain his question for me? Thanks....
 

bbyrd009

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Perhaps someone who understands you better could repackage what you are trying to say?
perhaps you could seek a rephrase of any snip you aren't clear on, Dave, but you didn't, see
yes, i could repackage the whole thing for you, but then that is not really what this is even about, is it Dave
Bbyrd is saying that you are speaking from a shallow veneer of religiosity and avoiding the real issues. And since this is in fact the case, he is going way over your head, so to speak.

Does that sound about right Bbyrd?
ha, well, from a certain perspective maybe, but imo (Dave) will not be served by that, and after all that is maybe the point? A rope of three cords is a great thing i guess, perhaps you might sorta take this back and do what Dave is asking up there right above, give him a line-by-line interp. But really Dave this is not going to serve you anyway, as you gotta be seated to get served, see, ppl Standing can't get served. Having done all to stand, stand works two ways :)
 

bbyrd009

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Could you explain his question for me? Thanks....
i already asked you "which Q?" Dave, did i miss a post...yes, Epi, please explain "my question" to Dave if you would
not tagging Epi on purpose here though, see
you quoted the whole post, which Q Dave, and prolly be later on an answer Happy Hanukkah :)
^
that's totally ok right, singing "When we all get to heaven?"
No sin in that right
:rolleyes:
how much more answer do you need here Dave, but google "when we all get to heaven (antichrist reprise)"--which i just posted yesterday here too btw--for more if you like, quotations and all ok bye
 
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Dave L

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i already asked you "which Q?" Dave, did i miss a post...yes, Epi, please explain "my question" to Dave if you would
not tagging Epi on purpose here though, see

^

how much more answer do you need here Dave, but google "when we all get to heaven (antichrist reprise)"--which i just posted yesterday here too btw--for more if you like, quotations and all ok bye
If you do not know which question you want me to answer, what more can I do?
 
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Dave L

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i already asked you "which Q?" Dave, did i miss a post...yes, Epi, please explain "my question" to Dave if you would
not tagging Epi on purpose here though, see

^

how much more answer do you need here Dave, but google "when we all get to heaven (antichrist reprise)"--which i just posted yesterday here too btw--for more if you like, quotations and all ok bye
“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.” (1 Corinthians 14:9) (KJV 1900)