Paul And The Law

[quietthinker]

Instead of 'expected', although absolutely correct, I would put empowered.
What I do not understand though is how Christians can say "we ought to obey God's ten commandments' with a straight face, when the vast majority of them, even those who speak of the 'Decalogue' with regulatory, only really mean nine commandments?

probably only eight.....not coveting is not even on the horizon of the average 'christian' .... Ahhhhhhhhh, perhaps only seven...other Gods, hmmmm.
Come to think of it, it might only be six...bearing false witness, hmmmm...theres a considerable amount of that in the backyard, ahhhggghhh, did you say the front yard also?....well I nearly got fooled. I think I'll stop at six. Too much is too much for some sensitive souls.

 

[quietthinker]

Proclaim the law a bad thing (as many do) and celebrate my freedom? Or obey the law of God out of a grateful heart by His grace and power and be called a 'legalist' by those who who don't seem to understand.

Inconvenience is a big thing. Not wanting to understand is probably closer to the mark. Inconvenience puts people at a decided disadvantage when it comes to dealing with men/carnal nature....isn't it the thing so many products are based around? Why keep a law or laws that put a spanner in the works?

 

[mjrhealth]

To the Jews / Israelites

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

How could the Jews ever be brought unto Jealousy by us gentiles when "Christians " would rather another mans husband than that whom they have being betrothed to Jesus Christ.

No one hates the law it is a good thing, but we are obedient to Christ, because
"1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,"

i am sure you can read the rest,

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. When ever the law comes up, along plod those dead in there sin because there is no salvation by the law, only death and yet men prefer it.

Its all about this

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

 

[brakelite]

To the Jews / Israelites

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

How could the Jews ever be brought unto Jealousy by us gentiles when "Christians " would rather another mans husband than that whom they have being betrothed to Jesus Christ.

No one hates the law it is a good thing, but we are obedient to Christ, because
"1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,"

i am sure you can read the rest,

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. When ever the law comes up, along plod those dead in there sin because there is no salvation by the law, only death and yet men prefer it.

Its all about this

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

You speak a lot of words but say nothing. You admitted that the law is good... But not for a righteous man. So is a righteous man's life in harmony with the law... Or not... Or doesnt it matter?

 

[mjrhealth]

You speak a lot of words but say nothing. You admitted that the law is good... But not for a righteous man. So is a righteous man's life in harmony with the law... Or not... Or doesnt it matter?

Do you know why we have laws in this world. tt is not meant or ever meant for good people, who have not part in lawlesness, but those whom choose to sin against men, so that they could be found "guilty" of there crimes and put away to protect the innocent, bt you dont get it do you, theer was no law from Adam to Moses, just Love, love has always existed, it was here in the beginning it was why Christ died for our sins and it is why God will end all this foolishness. But because men havnt tasted of teh "spirit" this bit

Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

they like your prefer the old. We only have one "law" to live by and that is love, if you need any others than you do not know love,

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

that is why JEsus said

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Love doesnt beat people up, and the law never stopped anyone from committing a crime, neither does it lead to righteousness, not is it pleasing to God. that men should follow after something that never did anything and denying all the work that Christ did, as if was not enough for men. No man has ever kept the law, not one not even you. Where ever you find the law you will find sinners following behind it.

 

[Dave L]

did i write you mean lol but mine are crap too ha

and the phrase you're looking for is "you're welcome" Dave, ok

come back and read this in a couple weeks and see

“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.” (Luke 6:45) (KJV 1900)

 

[Blueberry]

Hey mjrhealth.

No one hates the law it is a good thing, but we are obedient to Christ, because
"1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,"

Do you know why we have laws in this world. tt is not meant or ever meant for good people,

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Mt 19:17

Where are all these good and righteous people you refer to??

I do not quote this verse because I am arguing for works salvation, but that the Law (and laws) is/are for all of us. There is no one good except for God. Yet, 90% or more of people always seem to think that it is 'other guy' who is not good. Just ask them. They will tell you with enthusiasm! In fact, most have a list!

Agree that the Law is not for righteous men. They just aren't any. Apart from Christ. And yet He tells this rich young ruler to keep the commandments.

God's Grace empowers us to keep the Law and also forgives us when we fail. I need it daily!

The first 4 Commandments = "love God with all of our being"
The last 6 Commandments = "love our neighbors as we love ourselves"

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." Jn 14:15

I simply do not see the 'escape clause'.

Regards.

 

[Blueberry]

Hello GodsGrace

This is confusing.
NOW you're saying AGAIN that your friend CAN do all the bad things IF HE WANTS TO...

So, IF he wanted to do them, and he's now met Jesus...
CAN he do them?
IS HE ALLOWED to do them?

Please be clear.

Its seems the inclusion of two different words here may be not helping?

I have heard a slightly different version of this since the 1980s.

"I drink as much as I want. I just don't want to!"

"still" implies continuing the activity.
"can" implies permission.

Those have to be inserted into the slightly less verbose example above that I gave. And, FWIW, the addition of the biker beat downs takes the behavior outside of just the individual. Away from a mere consideration of personal conscience or choice.

I know the matter has already been resolved, but I thought this may be helpful to those (of us) who still like the literary device.

 

[Blueberry]

Hey Dave L

Here's how I understand it. Every day I ask God to forgive me for what I am. "God be merciful to me a sinner". And I confess any impure thoughts, dreams, or imaginations that got through to the point I indulged them. Normally, I can censor thoughts and imaginations, sometimes at the impulse stage. And live by this:

Here's my approach to walking in the Spirit.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5) (KJV 1900)

We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

And we replace it with:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules our thoughts and actions.

This is awesome! Yes and amen! Well said.

I have found the better I do at following my regenerated heart that even more minor sins now come to the forefront. Lets use at the example of flipping someone off in traffic. When I was first saved, I knew I had to stop. So stopping that, I might still give the 'stink eye'. The glare of disapproval. Then that was overcome. Then next step was to not even comment on it to any passengers. Next was to not even get upset in my heart. Eventually it becomes letting other people into traffic or go even when it is not their turn. Or they are being rude. Gross sins give way to more minor sins that give way to walking in love.

At anytime I can stop walking in the Spirit and revert to any level of this behavior. Even the very worst. Potentially. That one is long gone now, but some of the more minor ones can return under certain conditions. As I learned form the almost always 'up' Zig Ziglar, this seems to occur most when I am physically tired. My own observation is that when I am stressed or mad about something else then it is easier to fail. But that is just when I realize that I am back in the Flesh. And it all starts in the brain/heart... "as a man thinketh". Feeding on the Word and praying feeds the Spirit man and doing nothing allows the old fallen man to strengthen. Is this not bearing our Cross to crucify Self?

 

[farouk]

“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.” (Luke 6:45) (KJV 1900)

Great verse there. It seems to come over well also in the KJV.

 

[Dave L]

Hey Dave L



This is awesome! Yes and amen! Well said.

I have found the better I do at following my regenerated heart that even more minor sins now come to the forefront. Lets use at the example of flipping someone off in traffic. When I was first saved, I knew I had to stop. So stopping that, I might still give the 'stink eye'. The glare of disapproval. Then that was overcome. Then next step was to not even comment on it to any passengers. Next was to not even get upset in my heart. Eventually it becomes letting other people into traffic or go even when it is not their turn. Or they are being rude. Gross sins give way to more minor sins that give way to walking in love.

At anytime I can stop walking in the Spirit and revert to any level of this behavior. Even the very worst. Potentially. That one is long gone now, but some of the more minor ones can return under certain conditions. As I learned form the almost always 'up' Zig Ziglar, this seems to occur most when I am physically tired. My own observation is that when I am stressed or mad about something else then it is easier to fail. But that is just when I realize that I am back in the Flesh. And it all starts in the brain/heart... "as a man thinketh". Feeding on the Word and praying feeds the Spirit man and doing nothing allows the old fallen man to strengthen. Is this not bearing our Cross to crucify Self?

It's like surfing and riding the wave. If you can stay on top, nothing beats the joy and happiness. When we wipe out, confess the sin, climb back on the board and ride that wave. Make sure your buttons do not work when someone pushes them. It's the greatest feeling ever.

 

[Blueberry]

Hey quietthinker

probably only eight.....not coveting is not even on the horizon of the average 'christian' .... Ahhhhhhhhh, perhaps only seven...other Gods, hmmmm.
Come to think of it, it might only be six...bearing false witness, hmmmm...theres a considerable amount of that in the backyard, ahhhggghhh, did you say the front yard also?....well I nearly got fooled. I think I'll stop at six. Too much is too much for some sensitive souls.

I think that you're onto to something here. Tis a slippery slope!

 

[farouk]

It's like surfing and riding the wave. If you can stay on top, nothing beats the joy and happiness. When we wipe out, confess the sin, climb back on the board and ride that wave. Make sure your buttons do not work when someone pushes them. It's the greatest feeling ever.

John's First Epistle is helpful on walking in the light and enjoying fellowship not only with one another but with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Blueberry]

It's like surfing and riding the wave. If you can stay on top, nothing beats the joy and happiness. When we wipe out, confess the sin, climb back on the board and ride that wave. Make sure your buttons do not work when someone pushes them. It's the greatest feeling ever.

It is! It is so worth 'plucking out one's eye' and 'cutting off one's hand'. Another great illustration above.

I have some aviation repair background. In the cockpit some of the more critical switches have that safety cover over them. You have to raise that before one can even access the switch. Landing gear, flaps, etc. All quite good in their right place. At 600 knots air speed can be deadly! The Word and Spirit cover those buttons for us.

 

[farouk]

It is! It is so worth 'plucking out one's eye' and 'cutting off one's hand'. Another great illustration above.

I have some aviation repair background. In the cockpit some of the more critical switches have that safety cover over them. You have to raise that before one can even access the switch. Landing gear, flaps, etc. All quite good in their right place. At 600 knots air speed can be deadly! The Word and Spirit cover those buttons for us.

Good analogy...

 

[bbyrd009]

Make sure your buttons do not work when someone pushes them. It's the greatest feeling ever.

ok, but there's at least two manifestations of this, like anything i guess, ok Dave? Don't listen to me, but don't ignore many witnesses imo

 

[Dave L]

ok, but there's at least two manifestations of this, like anything i guess, ok Dave? Don't listen to me, but don't ignore many witnesses imo

Blessings......

 

[bbyrd009]

Blessings......

your blessings scare me Dave; there is a part of you that is unreachable, and not hearing many witnesses is a dangerous thing imo

 

[Dave L]

your blessings scare me Dave; there is a part of you that is unreachable, and not hearing many witnesses is a dangerous thing imo

Thanks for speaking in a way I can understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

Instead of 'expected', although absolutely correct, I would put empowered.
What I do not understand though is how Christians can say "we ought to obey God's ten commandments' with a straight face, when the vast majority of them, even those who speak of the 'Decalogue' with regulatory, only really mean nine commandments?

Why are we so afraid of words like:
Expected to obey
Must obey

God has always demanded obedience. We could sugar-coat it all we want,,,but He still the same God and still demands obedience.

This doesn't mean we will always obey...but let's at least say the truth?
I also kind of agree with the concept that we only follow 9. After all, the 10th is also a commandment. I'm rather confused about this...I'm told the ECF changed the day and it's in the N.T., written by John...I think...On The First Day of the Week.. Don't want to change the subject, but yes, I think God will have to have a lot of mercy on all of us.