Paul And The Law
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There is no escape clause.
There's no such thing as Works Salvation...I don't know why this has to be repeated continually.
Jesus tells the rich young man to keep the commandments because Jesus didn't seem to understand salvation as we do today.
A concept started by Paul, maybe?
Not that there's anything wrong with it...we've just brought it to an extreme Jesus would probably not recognize.
Very nice post.
I do want to say that some sins are easier to overcome than others.
Satan does seem to know our weaknesses...
Sanctification is a life-long process and as long as we're willing, the Spirit will help us.
You've got to be kidding! "Jesus didn't seem to understand..."???
It seems that you missed the point of that incident with the Rich Young Ruler. He was being shown that without faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, he could keep all the commandments (as he thought) and yet be lost.
I don't kid around about faith Enoch. You should know this by now.
Jesus DID NOT understand salvation the way we understand it today.
Know why?
Because it was made up by man...not by Jesus.
He said a couple of things on salvation,,,about a hundred on belonging to the Kingdom.
But we choose to think something or other about being born again,,,walking down an isle or something...Jesus said if we're not born from above we cannot SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
He was concerned with our being members of the Kingdom (here).
Plus, I believe you've missed the point of the rich young man.
Jesus told him to follow the commandments to have eternal life. (NOT to be saved).
He did NOT tell him he had to be saved to be saved.
Know what I mean? Jesus told him that if he wanted to ENTER INTO LIFE, he DID have to follow the commandments.
What did Jesus tell him when the young man answered that he was already keeping the commandments?
Did Jesus tell him to just get saved?
No. He told the young man to do even more and TO FOLLOW HIM.
It would be good if we started to see the difference...
I said works do not save us...This was my comment:
Agreed.
This goes back to:
Works do not save us.
BUT, after we're saved,,,we are expected to obey God.
(I get heat for this, but it's what the bible says...)
And in reply, you posted Ephesians 2:10
My point is that if we do not believe, we don't have to obey God because we would belost anyway...
If we DO believe, then it's imperative to obey God.
Some have a problem with hearing that we must obey God.
(I don't know why)
How can salvation by grace through faith be *made up by man*? That is a fundamental Bible truth. How can "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" be *made up by man*?
bbyrd009
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God from the beginning of time made a way of escape for us.
Genesis 3:15
I'm not saying that we are not saved by believing in Jesus.
What I am saying is that it's a concept completed by those that came after Jesus.
Check through the N.T. and see how many times Jesus spoke of salvation and then check how many times He spoke of the Kingdom. I'll tell you right now, He spoke of salvation about 3 to 5 times. That's it.
He said salvation was through HIM. He said we must be disciples and adhere to His teachings. He told the Apostles to go into all nations and baptize, make disciples and to teach them to observe all that He commanded.
He didn't mention anything about getting people saved...
That comes by being His disciple. I don't hear this being taught.
Wow! It gets better and better!
How about just this one passage to start you off: And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:9,10).
But let's add a few more verses about Jesus talking about salvation, so that you may be perfectly clear that Jesus spoke about salvation and being saved OVER AND OVER AGAIN (the opposite of saved is lost):
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance... And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth... It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. (Lk 15:6,7,9,10,32).
And then we have the very words of Christ in this passage in John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Looks like your Catholic friends have gotten to you. Perhaps Jesus spoke about the necessity of sacraments for salvation???
This is one of them. I said there were a few.
Sorry. This won't work. Jesus KNEW mankind was lost. He cried over Jerusalem because His own brethren did not respond to Him. However, the above does not respond to our perception of what salvation is. Think about this before responding. The CONCEPT of salvation, as we know it today, did not exist in the early church. It's a modern concept which began in the reformation and really became popular in about the 1800's.
Here are some quotes by the ECF, some of whom were taught by the Apostles,,,like Ignatius of Antioch for example:
The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. . . . He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works. Barnabas (c. 70-130), 1.148, 149.
We are justified by our works and not our words. Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.
. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one. Ignatius (c. 105), 1.51-55.
Therefore, brethren, by doing the will of the Father, and keeping the flesh holy, and observing the commandments of the Lord, we will obtain eternal life. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.519.
Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them. Hermas (c. 150), 2.25.
We . . . hasten to confess our faith, persuaded and convinced as we are that those who have proved to God by their works that they followed Him, and loved to abide with Him where there is no sin to cause disturbance, can obtain these things. . . . Each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. Justin Martyr (c. 160), 1.165, 166.
We will give account to God not only of deeds (as slaves), but even of words and thoughts (as being those who have truly received the power of liberty). For under liberty, a man is more severely tested as to whether he will reverence, fear, and love the Lord. . . . God desires obedience, which renders [His worshippers] secure—rather than sacrifices and burnt-offerings, which avail men nothing toward righteousness. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.482.
When we hear, "Your faith has saved you," we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatsoever will be saved. For works must also follow. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195), 2.505.
source: What the Early Christians Believed About Salvation - chasingalion.com
As you can see, no where does it state that we must be saved to have eternal life...instead the early Christians spoke about what we have to DO to be saved.
Sorry again. The above does not speak to being "born again" but rather supports the quotes I've posted from the ECF.
Instead of being sarcastic, why not try to understand what it is I'm saying?
You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a black hole with your responses. So I will not bother to correct you as you persist error.
May I ask which escape clause are you speaking of, and what is it you are trying to escape from???
Which is why I suppose we have so many Christians marryng two or three times... Idolize their football teams... Covet unnecessary goods and assets... Fiddle their taxes... Ignore the Sabbath... Because they believe they are righteous and the law doesn't apply to them.
A non Christian may well wonder why it is that Christians have such antipathy toward the the ten commandments yet at the same time profess to love God with all their hearts and souls. I guess they simply do not understand that obedience to God's commandments is not necessary so long as you love Him right?
No its why so many Christians have denied the work that Christ has done, "It is finished" but for many it hasnt, it is why condemnation is rife among christians, it is why they are fearful of God, because by the "Law " they can "NEVER" be good enough, because the LAW condemns those that follow after it, because we are supposed to be obedient to Christ in whom is our salvation, because the law can not save anyone, and that is why where ever you find the law, you will find sinners, because the law cannot forgive them. In fact the "law" requires you to pay for your sins with your blood, and so you must die and still it will not be satisfied because you are not perfect as He is perfect.
So
Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
says much for those who peruse the law.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Guess who that Stumbling Stone is???
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