Paul or Athenasius - Who Speaks the Truth?

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, how one acts is the key. Good point.


I believe 1 Corinthians 8:6:

1 Cor 8:6,

But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
​

I believe the one God is the Father. Jesus is not my God. As a matter of fact Jesus and I both share the same Father and the same God God.

John 20:17,

Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. (Jesus and us share the same God).​

I could give you a dozen other verses that say Jesus had a God. I believe the salutations of all of Paul's letters say that.

As 1 Corinthians says, Jesus is my Lord. He's my boss. I follow (well, I try to follow anyway) Jesus.

Holy Spirit? Depends on the context. Sometimes it refers to God. He is holy and he is spirit. Other times it refers to the gift He gave all born again believes. The first time He gave this gift was on the Day of Pentecost. It is Christ in you (Col 1:27). The gift is our direct connection with God. 1 Corinthians 12:7-10 lists 9 manifestations (NOT GIFTS as tongues is usually called. Read the verse as written, "but the MANIFESTATION of the spirtt...") of that spirit.

Because of wrong teaching, i.e. tongues (and the other 8 manifestations) is a gift given to some but not others, too many Christians miss out on the true greatness of Christ in them. If you don't believe 1 Corinthians, perhaps the words Jesus spoke will ring true to you.

John 14:12,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

Look at the works Jesus did in the Gospels and compare them to the 9 manifestations in 1 Cor 12:7-10. It is clear that Jesus did 7 of those manifestations. So even if you don't believe in tongues and interpretation of tongues (the 2 Jesus never did), I don't see how you can deny the others. We perform miracles, heal others, cast out devils, etc. because we have the gift of holy spirit, given to us by The Holy Spirit.

The reason Jesus didn't speak in tongues or interpret tongues is simply because those 2 manifestations were not available until the Day of Pentecost.

Hopefully that answers your question. If not, let me know. I'll have another go at it.

God bless.

Thank you for clearing the mystery. You are a JW, unless still a mystery. I'm not a JW, but a Charismatic which is not a denomination, but a general term like Christian, but one filled with the Spirit. And yes, I too cast out devils, heal, speak in tongues, but cannot interpret the 2nd kind of tongues (there are two: one without interpretation given to all who believe in Mark 16:16-18, and one with interpretation in 1 Corinthians 12:10, only given to those using tongues for ministry.

It is good to know that JWs believe in healing. I didn't know that.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The King James Version (A. D. 1611) says at 1 Jn 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

I believe in three parts of One God. The Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Spirit is God, and they are inseparable.

 

[Rich R]

Thank you for clearing the mystery. You are a JW. I'm not a JW, but a Charismatic which is not a denomination, but a general term like Christian, but one filled with the Spirit. And yes, I too cast out devils, heal, speak in tongues, but cannot interpret the 2nd kind of tongues (there are two: one without interpretation given to all who believe in Mark 16:16-18, and one with interpretation in 1 Corinthians 12:10, only given to those using tongues for ministry.

It is good to know that JWs believe in healing. I didn't know that.

No, I'm not JW. I think I'm not that much different than yourself.

Yes on the two kinds of tongues. One is for our private prayer lives. But if we speak in tongues in a group, it should be interpreted. Otherwise, as Paul said, the speaker still gets edified, but it does nothing for those present, hence the need to interpret what was spoken so everybody gets edified.

I have to say, it's rare that I meet another Christian that operates the manifestations to the degree you seem to do. That's wonderful! How else are we to demonstrate the power of God to others? To be sure, it's God that gets all the glory. I'm nothing without Him and everything with Him. And it's all because the man Christ Jesus loved me, a worthless loser, and made the free will decision to obey his Father and endure 36 hours of torture and then the crucifixion. He didn't want to do it, but in the end he said, "not my will, but thine be done." He was a man with the same infirmities as the rest of us, who was tempted just like the rest of us. Nonetheless he obeyed every jot and tittle so you and I could enjoy eternity on a perfect earth that is hopefully coming later today. But if not today, it'll be one of these days.

We all inherited a sin nature from Adam. His seed was polluted and so all his offspring down the line inherited that same sin nature at birth. But where did the seed for Jesus come from? From God of course! By a miracle, God implanted, not Adam's corrupted seed, but a perfect seed. Jesus, like Adam, started out perfect but either one could disobey God and lose it. Adam chocked, thinking he could be God. The devil offered the same thing to Jesus, but thank God Jesus said, "I don't think I want to do that! Get outa here!" Thank God Jesus went the distance and conquered sin and the death that came with it.

I trust you can ascertain, that although I don't believe Jesus is God, I don't take him to be a "mere" man either. He was the man of the ages to be sure!

 

[Enoch111]

I see what you are saying, but if that were it, wouldn't it amount to adding something more than, "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead," which is what the scriptures themselves say?

When you take ALL relevant Scriptures into account to arrive at a Bible doctrine, that is not adding to the Word of God but rightly dividing the Word of Truth. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine...(2 Tim 3:16). Therefore all relevant Scripture must be taken into account.

Now let's focus on the name "JESUS". That is a translation of the Greek "Iesous", but it is derived from the Hebrew name Yehoshua (which again was translated into "Joshua"). Here is what Strong's Concordance has:
Strong's Concordance
Yehoshua: "the LORD is salvation," Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr.
Original Word: יְהוֹשׁוּעַ
Part of Speech: proper name, masculine; proper name, of a location; proper name
Transliteration: Yehoshua
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
Definition: "the LORD is salvation", Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr.

Now in the King James Bible "the LORD" (small capitals) = YHWH = YAHWEH = the name of God
So the name of Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua or YAH-SHUA = GOD [IS OUR] SALVATION

1. Is Jesus our Salvation? Absolutely
2. Is Jesus God our Salvation? Absolutely

Jesus is not merely our Savior but He is God our Salvation. And that is exactly why Joseph was told to name Him "JESUS": And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Mt 1:21) But it was Simeon in the temple who actually called Jesus "thy Salvation" when he "blessed" God: Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen THY SALVATION, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (Lk 2:29-32).

So whenever people say or write the name "Jesus" they are actually telling you "God is our Salvation". Which means that no one can be saved until and unless they acknowledge that Jesus is God their Salvation. He is the one who said "I AM the Resurrection and the Life".

 

[Bob Estey]

Here is what Paul said about getting born again:

Rom 10:9,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Here is what the Athanasian Creed says about getting born again (I only quoted pertinent excerpts) :

“We must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity....one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.”
​

Who is telling the truth here? Perhaps Athanasius got revelation that Paul didn't get?

​

I pray to one person.

 

[Rich R]

I pray to one person.

Jesus is the mediator between us and God.

1Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus is the mediator between us and God.

1Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

I pray to God. (Actually, I believe Jesus to be God in flesh.)