Paul's Mention Of Christ In You??

[CoreIssue]

For the sake of correct arguement it must be assumed both believers believe in the Trinity. If that is the case there really is no argument, reading the scripture as written; faith is your knowledge of the Trinity.
Only a fool can attemp to explain it (such as myself because I have done it). My question would be? Paul uses the words Christ in you, in many different forms. One place he said for him "to live is Christ."
Why would he use the term "in Christ" over 150, if he meant the HolySpirit.
You see that would not line up with the rest of scripture.

In the same sense that the father, son and holy spirit are all individually called god while together are god.

The blood of Christ saves and washes us clean via the intermediary actions and function of the holy spirit.

 

[amadeus]

I had in mind...um, any of the vv that say "belief" in English but pisteou, "faith" in the original? So like virtually every instance except @ it is impossible to please God, which I suspect will be "fixed" by the next new tranny. The vv that connect salvation with "belief" if you would, can't Quote from memory bc not in a quiet room, sorry, but you get the idea I hope
Ah here, duh, I'm sure the first one will do fine

Bible Search: believe NT
Or here too I guess, again from ref one on down
Bible Search: belief NT

I am only on the edge of understanding your point. You apparently want to make the distinction between faith and belief as per the original language, but while the English KJV uses both words quite a bit, the German in most cases uses only one: Glauben… whether it is derived from pisteuo or not, whether it is translated to faith or belief in English. While I read the Bible in German I am not a linguist and am very dependent on resources not my own when dealing with the original language.

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" II Thess 2:13 [KJV about 1611]

hmeiV de ofeilomen eucaristein tw qew pantote peri umwn adelfoi hgaphmenoi upo kuriou oti eilato umaV o qeoV ap archV eiV swthrian en agiasmw pneumatoV kai pistei alhqeiaV" II Thess 2:13 [Greek transliteration]

"Wir aber sollen Gott danken allezeit um euch, von dem HERRN geliebte Brüder, daß euch Gott erwählt hat von Anfang zur Seligkeit, in der Heiligung des Geistes und im Glauben der Wahrheit," II Thess 2:13 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

One other example for you:

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17 [KJV about 1611]

"dikaiosunh gar qeou en autw apokaluptetai ek pistewV eiV pistin kaqwV gegraptai o de dikaioV ek pistewV zhsetai" Rom 1:17

[Greek transliteration]​

"Sintemal darin offenbart wird die Gerechtigkeit, die vor Gott gilt, welche kommt aus Glauben in Glauben; wie denn geschrieben steht: "Der Gerechte wird seines Glaubens leben." " Rom 1:17 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

The word, Glauben, in German is the most common translation equaling either faith or belief in the English KJV Bible. Another commonly used German word in the scriptures which may mean faith or belief, is Vertrauen which is closer to meaning trust or confidence and is more likely to be translated with one of those in English.

I wish I could be more helpful, but I seldom if ever make the distinction I believe you are trying to show between faith and belief.

If you come up with a more pertinent verse I will try again, but my limited ability in this is just that, limited...

 

[CoreIssue]

I am only on the edge of understanding your point. You apparently want to make the distinction between faith and belief as per the original language, but while the English KJV uses both words quite a bit, the German in most cases uses only one: Glauben… whether it is derived from pisteuo or not, whether it is translated to faith or belief in English. While I read the Bible in German I am not a linguist and am very dependent on resources not my own when dealing with the original language.

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" II Thess 2:13 [KJV about 1611]

hmeiV de ofeilomen eucaristein tw qew pantote peri umwn adelfoi hgaphmenoi upo kuriou oti eilato umaV o qeoV ap archV eiV swthrian en agiasmw pneumatoV kai pistei alhqeiaV" II Thess 2:13 [Greek transliteration]

"Wir aber sollen Gott danken allezeit um euch, von dem HERRN geliebte Brüder, daß euch Gott erwählt hat von Anfang zur Seligkeit, in der Heiligung des Geistes und im Glauben der Wahrheit," II Thess 2:13 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

One other example for you:

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17 [KJV about 1611]

"dikaiosunh gar qeou en autw apokaluptetai ek pistewV eiV pistin kaqwV gegraptai o de dikaioV ek pistewV zhsetai" Rom 1:17

[Greek transliteration]​

"Sintemal darin offenbart wird die Gerechtigkeit, die vor Gott gilt, welche kommt aus Glauben in Glauben; wie denn geschrieben steht: "Der Gerechte wird seines Glaubens leben." " Rom 1:17 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

The word, Glauben, in German is the most common translation equaling either faith or belief in the English KJV Bible. Another commonly used German word in the scriptures which may mean faith or belief, is Vertrauen which is closer to meaning trust or confidence and is more likely to be translated with one of those in English.

I wish I could be more helpful, but I seldom if ever make the distinction I believe you are trying to show between faith and belief.

If you come up with a more pertinent verse I will try again, but my limited ability in this is just that, limited...

On such things checking the word for meaning is helpful. Especially checking verses from the King James version.
Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance

 

[amadeus]

On such things checking the word for meaning is helpful. Especially checking verses from the King James version.
Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance

Thanks! I do check myself regularly by reading all of the Bible in three languages [including Spanish] continuously. When any doubt or question arises I do have resources both on paper as well as online that I use. Of course often these resources still do not suffice. Before and after every chapter read, I talk with God about it. Sometimes He has an immediate answer for me... but quite often He does not. I simply then have to be patient...

"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

 

[mjrhealth]

What do you think prophets are?

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;” (Ephesians 4:11) (KJV 1900)

Paul was not a prophet just simply another of our Lords disciples, as it says

Mat_11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

After Christ all men could hear from God, well those who listened, didnt make them prophets, just believers.

 

[brakelite]

I think perhaps that Paul understood that "Christ in us, the hope of glory" was true, because like us, He believed the promises of Christ that such would be so. As in John 17. Now of course I don't beleive Paul ever read John's gospel, because I think it was written after Paul died, but did not Paul spend several years in the wilderness to be taught by the Lord personally as John the Baptist was, and others throughout Bible history?
Gal. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Is anyone aware of any Christian schools/bible colleges/universities existing in Arabia in the middle of the first century? I think that "revelation" Paul spoke of would have included the vital promise of Christ in us.
I think caution must be used here as to adamantly placing a belief in the trinity as a foundation for believing this truth...not necessary.

 

[soul man]

Now of course I don't beleive Paul ever read John's gospel, because I think it was written after Paul died, but did not Paul spend several years in the wilderness to be taught by the Lord personally as John the Baptist was, and others throughout Bible history?

Yes I agree to your point, the verse quoted is the desert, Gal. 1:17

 

[soul man]

I think caution must be used here as to adamantly placing a belief in the trinity as a foundation for believing this truth...not necessary.

Although we got off subject with the trinity, I would agree and disagree. How could one know Christ as life when some believe it is only the HolySpirit dwells in them as life? How could you know the HolySpirit as your teacher (as Jesus said He would be when He came), when you see the HolySpirit as your life.
And surly there can be an understanding of the God head bodily dwelling in born again believers. Very powerful verses you quote, in my understanding.

 

[Dave L]

Paul was not a prophet just simply another of our Lords disciples, as it says

Mat_11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

After Christ all men could hear from God, well those who listened, didnt make them prophets, just believers.

Paul prophesied several times. See if you can find one of the times...

 

[soul man]

Paul was not a prophet just simply another of our Lords disciples, as it says

Because of Christ in the believer, every office is in a believer whether exercised or not. That depends on their creation and calling to do so. But as far as being there, yes by Christ. Everything done in ministry and life we do by Christ, you have no other life. There is only one life, Christ, can you see the importance of Paul to the believers understanding, immeasurable to say the least because he preached "CHRIST" as the believers only life, unbelievable what paul has to say if we could read our bibles. Believers should not leave Gal. 2:20 untill it is indelible written in there hearts and minds by the HolySpirit, transforming.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am only on the edge of understanding your point. You apparently want to make the distinction between faith and belief as per the original language, but while the English KJV uses both words quite a bit, the German in most cases uses only one: Glauben… whether it is derived from pisteuo or not, whether it is translated to faith or belief in English. While I read the Bible in German I am not a linguist and am very dependent on resources not my own when dealing with the original language.

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" II Thess 2:13 [KJV about 1611]

hmeiV de ofeilomen eucaristein tw qew pantote peri umwn adelfoi hgaphmenoi upo kuriou oti eilato umaV o qeoV ap archV eiV swthrian en agiasmw pneumatoV kai pistei alhqeiaV" II Thess 2:13 [Greek transliteration]

"Wir aber sollen Gott danken allezeit um euch, von dem HERRN geliebte Brüder, daß euch Gott erwählt hat von Anfang zur Seligkeit, in der Heiligung des Geistes und im Glauben der Wahrheit," II Thess 2:13 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

One other example for you:

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17 [KJV about 1611]

"dikaiosunh gar qeou en autw apokaluptetai ek pistewV eiV pistin kaqwV gegraptai o de dikaioV ek pistewV zhsetai" Rom 1:17

[Greek transliteration]​

"Sintemal darin offenbart wird die Gerechtigkeit, die vor Gott gilt, welche kommt aus Glauben in Glauben; wie denn geschrieben steht: "Der Gerechte wird seines Glaubens leben." " Rom 1:17 [Luther Bible about 1522 NT]

The word, Glauben, in German is the most common translation equaling either faith or belief in the English KJV Bible. Another commonly used German word in the scriptures which may mean faith or belief, is Vertrauen which is closer to meaning trust or confidence and is more likely to be translated with one of those in English.

I wish I could be more helpful, but I seldom if ever make the distinction I believe you are trying to show between faith and belief.

If you come up with a more pertinent verse I will try again, but my limited ability in this is just that, limited...

ty, imo the Q is answered @ "Glauben" I guess. Generally speaking "we" do not make the distinction either, but in Scripture there nonetheless remains five ways to say Believe and only one way to say Have Faith. Now faith is he evidence of things not seen is imo a way to say "faith = action" in code, so that one may conflate them if that is what they seek

 

[amadeus]

ty, imo the Q is answered @ "Glauben" I guess. Generally speaking "we" do not make the distinction either, but in Scripture there nonetheless remains five ways to say Believe and only one way to say Have Faith. Now faith is he evidence of things not seen is imo a way to say "faith = action" in code, so that one may conflate them if that is what they seek

I thought that this was the point you were trying to make, but most of the time most Bible readers will not get into that [partakers still of milk or tares or deluded or?]... unless God has shown them something that would lead them that way. One way He might do that is through a person like yourself bringing it to their attention.

"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" I Cor 2:6-7

Must now all the wisdom of God always remain a mystery or has He not now revealed it to some persons at appropriate as God saw the need?

Will sometimes perhaps God will give a person the knowledge, the wisdom and understanding, without a corresponding gift of gab to easily tell others about it clearly.

 

[bbyrd009]

I thought that this was the point you were trying to make, but most of the time most Bible readers will not get into that [partakers still of milk or tares or deluded or?]... unless God has shown them something that would lead them that way. One way He might do that is through a person like yourself bringing it to their attention.

"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" I Cor 2:6-7

Must now all the wisdom of God always remain a mystery or has He not now revealed it to some persons at appropriate as God saw the need?

Will sometimes perhaps God will give a person the knowledge, the wisdom and understanding, without a corresponding gift of gab to easily tell others about it clearly.

i do an evil thing here, and justify it as being "in a Christian forum" I guess.
Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again and all that

 

[amadeus]

i do an evil thing here, and justify it as being "in a Christian forum" I guess.
Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again and all that

This may sometimes apply, but sometimes God will direct us to go and to do what in our own heart we might have avoided. Remember what Hosea was told to do in the second verse of chapter 1, and then read the words of the Apostle Paul:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Where is God's absolute in that? It is there but few it would seem are able to see it. What kind of vision is needed?

"Where there is no vision, the people perish: ..." Prov 29:18

 

[bbyrd009]

Remember what Hosea was told to do in the second verse of chapter 1, and then read the words of the Apostle Paul:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Where is God's absolute in that?

tag for manana

 

[mjrhealth]

Paul prophesied several times. See if you can find one of the times...

Jeremiah was a prophet, Ezekiel was a prophet, Paul was a simple Disciple sent to preach the gospel to the gentiles, and suffered for it. After penetcost when the Holy Spirit was / is given to believers, God didnt need prophets anymore because His Spirit is given to believers and now anyone can prophesy as HE wills.

 

[friend of]

Christ died in my place! The life I now life I live by the power of Christ indwelt within me!

 

[friend of]

It has to be by connectivity because Christ had to leave for the comforter to come and indwell us. And the holy spirit has to leave for Christ to come in the second coming.

Right. And God would not just remove his Holy Spirit from his born again children and leave us to languish here because that would be an unnecessary punishment. That's another reason to believe in rapture

 

[soul man]

"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

"the princes of this world" were the religious leaders of Paul's day.

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" I Cor 2:6-7

"the wisdom of God in a mystery" Christ in you the hope of glory.
Colossians (1:27)

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Must now all the wisdom of God always remain a mystery or has He not now revealed it to some persons at appropriate as God saw the need?

Galatians (4:1-2)

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

 

[Dave L]

Jeremiah was a prophet, Ezekiel was a prophet, Paul was a simple Disciple sent to preach the gospel to the gentiles, and suffered for it. After penetcost when the Holy Spirit was / is given to believers, God didnt need prophets anymore because His Spirit is given to believers and now anyone can prophesy as HE wills.

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;” (Ephesians 4:11) (KJV 1900)