Pay Your Tithe OR Spend Eternity In Hell?

[aspen]

yeah, i agree with you, Axehead.

 

[Rach1370]

Under Christ we have freedom from law. The gospel of grace is clear on that.
But another thing is also clear....as Christians we should want the gospel to go as far as it can...be it in our home town or on the other side of the world. That takes money. Feeding ministers and their families take money. Printing bibles in different languages takes money. Sending missionaries takes money. Starting up missions and Christian schools in Africa takes money.

So the real question seems to be....why on earth would any Christian not want to support getting the word OUT there???

 

[[email protected]]

I have a question. I have a small auto brake repair business. I tithe what I make, and that is where my question is.

Lets say I do a brake job for $200, $100 of that is labor and $100 of that is parts. I make $100 on this example for my time and work, the rest goes to pay for the parts. I tithe on the $100 that I make, since the other $100 belongs to the parts store. Am I right in thinking this way?

Actually you didn't make $100.

Depending upon your federal tax bracket you may owe the government 10%-15% of that amount. Add to that state income taxes of approximately 2%-5% (or more). Add to that FICA tax - and I have no idea how much they're taking out percentage wise. Let's just say that a total conservative tax figure of 25% isn't unrealistic and probably a little low. That leaves you with $75 for the job.

Those that like to quote 'render unto Caesar' seem to link that with the tithe requirement. Therefore you don't owe the church anything until AFTER you render unto thief Caesar or Fuhrer Obama or whoever is your state governor (equally corrupt in most places). In some cases the city taxes your income as well - but we won't go there as it will complicate an already big mess.

Now if we are busy rendering to people before we can put our own money into our own pocket, there's rendering to the landlord or rendering to the mortgage company. After all, the Bible doesn't expect any of us to live under a bridge in a cardboard box. Paying for a roof over one's head is part of rendering. The common percentage for mortgage/rent payment is 25% of your income. That's $18.75 off the last figure leaving you with $56.25. (A lot of folks pay a lot more, but I'm just trying to keep it simple.)

Assuming for the sake of argument that the total of all other living expenses including food, clothing and lights is another 25%, we subtract another $18.75 and get $37.50.

Transportation costs are a necessity as well and we remove another $18.75 for that. We're assuming a modest cost of a single vehicle and gas here, no toll costs for commuting to work and no parking fees although such amounts are realistic in many households. That leaves the whopping figure of $18.75 after all the 'rendering' is done.

At this point we have yet to consider other obligations - and they ARE obligations - like educational expenses for your children, municipal taxes, property taxes and God forbid - MEDICAL expenses. Notice we haven't considered revolving credit charges payoff at all. That's a hole we've all dug ourselves into, but isn't considered worthy of adding to the minus column at this point. Let's be optimistic and say that you pay $8.75 for all standard obligations. This leaves you with ten dollars, one of which our pro-tithers say you owe to the church.

10% - one dollar. If the 'rendering' crowd wants to have their cake, that's what you owe. Meaning that one dollar is 'rendered' to the church. If you are 'rendering', then it must be done according to the dogma.

But wait. The common teaching is that the 10% you owe the church must come off the top, but that's NOT what the 'rendering' story teaches. Caesar and company get their 'rendering' first. Bottom line is that the church can't have it's 'rendered' cake and eat it too.

In all of this arithmetic there hasn't been a dime devoted to savings or non-essential personal expenses like cable TV, all those books you're supposed to buy for Sunday school class, pest extermination, home security, some free time with your wife and children or even the enjoyment of a pet (pets are expensive).

And we haven't even calculated what we're getting with all the money that's leaked out between our fingers in this example.

The tax money is supposed to go for community and social services, to support a plethora of corrupt politicians and warfare on a global scale.
Family budgets are dedicated to all the necessary things to live under a modest roof (Does your pastor live better than you do? Mine does.)
Educational expenses are dedicated to making the future brighter for our children (even though it's beginning to look like the higher educational system is bogus and nearly as corrupt as Washington).
Should you use part of the remaining ten dollars to save for a rainy day? How would you most wisely invest it?

Should you invest a tithe of your money to the church? What return will you get on the money? When you are hurt or sick, will any part of the church come to the aid of your family (private persons perhaps, but will the church, inc. rush to help)? Two years ago I had two operations which required me to be out of work for a total of eight weeks. Nobody from my church came to visit, offer help, called on the phone or sent an email. Bad investment if you ask me.

In my opinion any money handed over to the church as an investment is wasted. Even more, I believe it's furthering a criminal operation (white collar crime) since absolutely nothing can be expected in return.

If you wish to give and not desire anything in return you do well.
If you believe you'll get some sort of benefit from what you donate, you're dreaming and doing yourself a disservice.

Neither God nor the church administration has entered into any sort of contract with you regarding exchange of goods and services for your dollars. A lot of pastors do feel - and teach - that you owe them a living.

Last question.

Who owes YOU a living?

it's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Brothertom]

We must ask; Who benefits from the tithe?

Giving unto the Lord; Not tithing as a law. The mother Church at Jerusalem was starving, being put out of all commerce & business as anathema. Paul called for the entire gentile church to help support them:


'Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation.

But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. As it is written:
“He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever.”
Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God.

For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God, while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men, and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!."

Tithing is never found in the New Testament, but if you are not a giver, you are not a Christian; It is a part of a merciful heart. It is used today to keep an unscriptural PRIEST/PASTOR class ascendant over the Pew class, & keeps the wheels greased of Churchianity, & a buliding based meeting. This is why so much condemnation has been weilded against a Tithe-Free church: As the Pharisees said about Jesus..."If He continues...the Romans will come & take away our PLACE & OUR NATION!"

BEING A PROFESSIONAL IS FOUNDED ON GETTING PAID, & BEING KEPT IN POWER. God's church has a plurality of non-professional, non-hirelings to Shepherd His fellowship. These don't care about the tithe; they work for a living...& don't want or need money from the church, & it is the TITHE the hirelings depend on.

Give unto the Lord, All you mighty! [ Saints] Give unto the Lord Glory![ worship ] & Strength! [ money & substance]

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; NOT FOR FILTHY LUCRE!, but of a ready mind;
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock
.
And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."

"And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve."

And the founder of the Gentile Church.......Paul..the great Apostle...refused support;

" I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or apparel. 3Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me.

I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

We must give but never legalisticaly nor by compulsion; ;leave that to the cults.

 

[[email protected]]

Funny how money is almighty, even in Christian conversation.

Some of the posts here are scholarly works (like Brothertom above) and others are just shooting from the hip (pocket) as it were. No one has been able to prove the premise of the lead post/title of this thread - that not paying one's tithe would result in eternal punishment.

Sounds like a banker wrote that line. I'm sure Bank of America would love to have everyone believe that.

Will works save any man? How about writing checks?
If so, exactly how much does any one man owe God and if so how would such a person know when the debt is paid in full?
Will a final bill be received on one's death bed? Would God steal the inheritance out of the mouth of one's children (as the government tries to do)?

I don't recall anywhere in Holy Writ where such a caution is advanced.
On the other hand I DO READ that taking communion in an unholy manner can indeed result in damnation. (1 Cor. 11:29)

What's more important here - donations to a priest or living in holiness?

Certainly one ought not deny aid to the church, the ill or the needy. None can argue against it.

But will one's wallet catch fire because all the money therein hasn't been turned over to the government or the church?

Oh wait! I have one dollar left in my wallet with three days 'till payday and I swear I smell smoke coming out of there.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[marksman]

Tithing is never found in the New Testament, but if you are not a giver, you are not a Christian; It is a part of a merciful heart. It is used today to keep an unscriptural PRIEST/PASTOR class ascendant over the Pew class, & keeps the wheels greased of Churchianity, & a buliding based meeting. This is why so much condemnation has been weilded against a Tithe-Free church: As the Pharisees said about Jesus..."If He continues...the Romans will come & take away our PLACE & OUR NATION!"

Here is a challenge for you (anyone). Can you show me any verse/s in the New Testament that says we are required to tithe 10% of our income to the church?

I have been looking for a long time but can't find any.

There is no concept of priest/laity in the New Testament so no one was paid to be "a pastor." The scripture clearly teaches the priesthood of ALL believers. The only people that received money on a regular basis (not a salary) were the Apostles who could not work whilst they were travelling and widows who devoted themselves to praying for the church.

 

[marksman]

Here is a challenge for you (anyone). Can you show me any verse/s in the New Testament that says we are required to tithe 10% of our income to the church?

Posted two weeks ago but no response. Do I assume then that no such verse or verses exist?

 

[Axehead]

Posted two weeks ago but no response. Do I assume then that no such verse or verses exist?

There is no law that those in Christ are under, except the law of love.

And the Spirit requires much more from a professed follower of Christ than the Law could ever do.

 

[Foreigner]

Posted two weeks ago but no response. Do I assume then that no such verse or verses exist?

-- So, if it doesn't say it in the New Testament, then it isn't to be considered?
So now the entire Old Testament is now null and void?

If you don't want to give your church 10% then don't.

But if you are going to your church every week to get spiritually fed, you owe your church something more than a token.

It is unfair to try to portray churches and their pastors as living "high on the hog" off your weekly giving.

If your church is worth its' weight in salt then besides upkeep and maint, pastor and staff salaries, gas and electric, publicaton costs and the like, they also have programs to assist the poor, homeless, abused, addicted, hospital visitations, jail ministry, missionary work, etc. etc. etc.

This all costs money. If you don't want to participate, fine. But God does expect you to participate, both financially and personally in addressing needs.

When he seperates the Sheep and the Goats, you are going to be placed in a specific group based on whether you fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick and imprisoned, etc.

Lamenting your church and stating you didn't feel they needed your money isn't going to do you much good..

Again, don't want to support your chuch? Fine.

But I can promise you that there will come a day when you have to account for what you did support....and more importantly, what you didn't.

 

[the stranger]

I plan on doing more study on this tonight, though in the past I have studied it in length.

I think if one looks at the bible as a whole, even the NT, one can be assured that supporting the ministry is and should be expected. As already said, the ox (preacher) has the right to be supported in his ministry. That is our obligation.

Before anyone slams back, it has now been years since I have tithed and am beginning to look at tithing a bit different. Because of frequent moves and circumstances I have not and could not go to the same church more than a few weeks top and now have not been able to go for a little while. In saying that, I try to bless as many as I feel lead to bless and give generally more money away than I ever did tithing.

One church I went to (though I loved the people there) took three offerings in one service (all for different reasons or purposes). Another church I went to, unlike most churches (I wonder why?) actually had a print out of all expenses including the pastors salary. When I looked my eyes were wide open. He took in more per year than I take in in four to five years at best. And this church was honest and open about it, and it was relatively a small church.

Where I live I am learning quickly what underpasses and doorways some of the homeless call home. Also learned quickly what neighbors or by passers to question (or not believe) because of bad choices and bad habits. At times, this even relates to the ones I love most.

Where am I going with all of this?

God has showed me long ago, just like most of you, to watch where every cent of ours go. I live cheap by choice to be a blessing to others. I choose not to own a car, have cable, have home internet, or even TV (but I do have a TV with a DVD player) and for that matter, one old kitchen chair, table, and a mattress (and two folding chairs). All of this except the DVD player was given to me. I have most certainly been blessed by God, so much. I have many books as well.

Am I saying all of this so people will feel sorry for me? Hardly. This is by choice. Because of it I have been blessed 100 fold as I am able to bless others, even if only by my company. The ones I love the most I have been able to help out greatly because of these choices.

So here is the question.

If we are to watch our every dime, and be observant to where it goes, should we give to a church in which we do not know where every dime goes, or in some cases even a clue where most of it goes? If we know better than to give (waste) our money on drunkards or druggies (that is, give money to them directly) is not the same principle apply to even religions organizations?

One thing that I struggled with God over was tithing. I knew however, it should be where I am fed. I think some problems came in when I became to sick to attend a church to began with. Then when I was able to move again, the ones I loved the most needed plenty. I could go on and on, as those I am able to fellowship with, hoping to lead one to Christ is only available on Sundays and Wednesdays. All that aside, what is tithing?

In scripture we do know a couple things.

(1) don't give with a heart that feels forced or with an attitude other than one where we want to give.

(2) do not give what we do not have

(3) Do not give to God and Forsake your family, as in doing so you are worse than a non believer

Things we do not know

(1) Where are we called to give 10%

(2) Where should our giving be directed at or to according to the NT

(3) We know giving was done in the NT church, and the reasons were to support our brethren abroad and our leaders at home, but was this ever called tithing and not just giving, as in, no mandatory amount, which would fit the other teachings of Paul?

I am starting to donate my time with a company that distributes free bibles very soon. I am sure I will give both time and money for this very cause.

You see, one of my big questions was, where was my money going? Should I support a lavish lifestyle when I can help so many on a local level? Should I give to large organizations with the little I have, to be sucked up in overhead, instead of blessing directly who I know in person? Should I not wait for the Spirit to lead, and not jump a head, giving my money where ever and letting it go to waste? If I watch every penny that God gives me for myself, should I not do the same with the money that the Spirit leads me to give? That is, if there was really a separation of Gods money and our money, being that it all came from Him to start with.


My God has blessed me oohh sooo greatly on so many levels and in so many ways that I cannot began to truly let someone understand. This is, in my memory, the best my life has ever been with more blessings from God than I know what to do with. God does work miracles and I am living proof.

Until I do further study one more time, I think the most important thing is to follow the Holy Spirits leading. Be willing to give what you have to where ever God tells and shows you to give. There is certainly nothing wrong with giving to your local church. This is biblical. ten percent however is in question. ANY TIME WE GIVE APART FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE OF US ARE WE NOT DISOBEYING?

Father, all I have is yours. Use me Oh Lord, to bring others to Yourself, to show others, Lord, You in me. Thank You Father, for all You have given me. Help me Lord, to give back blessings as You have given me.

 

[Axehead]

I plan on doing more study on this tonight, though in the past I have studied it in length.

I think if one looks at the bible as a whole, even the NT, one can be assured that supporting the ministry is and should be expected. As already said, the ox (preacher) has the right to be supported in his ministry. That is our obligation.

Before anyone slams back, it has now been years since I have tithed and am beginning to look at tithing a bit different. Because of frequent moves and circumstances I have not and could not go to the same church more than a few weeks top and now have not been able to go for a little while. In saying that, I try to bless as many as I feel lead to bless and give generally more money away than I ever did tithing.

One church I went to (though I loved the people there) took three offerings in one service (all for different reasons or purposes). Another church I went to, unlike most churches (I wonder why?) actually had a print out of all expenses including the pastors salary. When I looked my eyes were wide open. He took in more per year than I take in in four to five years at best. And this church was honest and open about it, and it was relatively a small church.

Where I live I am learning quickly what underpasses and doorways some of the homeless call home. Also learned quickly what neighbors or by passers to question (or not believe) because of bad choices and bad habits. At times, this even relates to the ones I love most.

Where am I going with all of this?

God has showed me long ago, just like most of you, to watch where every cent of ours go. I live cheap by choice to be a blessing to others. I choose not to own a car, have cable, have home internet, or even TV (but I do have a TV with a DVD player) and for that matter, one old kitchen chair, table, and a mattress (and two folding chairs). All of this except the DVD player was given to me. I have most certainly been blessed by God, so much. I have many books as well.

Am I saying all of this so people will feel sorry for me? Hardly. This is by choice. Because of it I have been blessed 100 fold as I am able to bless others, even if only by my company. The ones I love the most I have been able to help out greatly because of these choices.

So here is the question.

If we are to watch our every dime, and be observant to where it goes, should we give to a church in which we do not know where every dime goes, or in some cases even a clue where most of it goes? If we know better than to give (waste) our money on drunkards or druggies (that is, give money to them directly) is not the same principle apply to even religions organizations?

One thing that I struggled with God over was tithing. I knew however, it should be where I am fed. I think some problems came in when I became to sick to attend a church to began with. Then when I was able to move again, the ones I loved the most needed plenty. I could go on and on, as those I am able to fellowship with, hoping to lead one to Christ is only available on Sundays and Wednesdays. All that aside, what is tithing?

In scripture we do know a couple things.

(1) don't give with a heart that feels forced or with an attitude other than one where we want to give.

(2) do not give what we do not have

(3) Do not give to God and Forsake your family, as in doing so you are worse than a non believer

Things we do not know

(1) Where are we called to give 10%

(2) Where should our giving be directed at or to according to the NT

(3) We know giving was done in the NT church, and the reasons were to support our brethren abroad and our leaders at home, but was this ever called tithing and not just giving, as in, no mandatory amount, which would fit the other teachings of Paul?

I am starting to donate my time with a company that distributes free bibles very soon. I am sure I will give both time and money for this very cause.

You see, one of my big questions was, where was my money going? Should I support a lavish lifestyle when I can help so many on a local level? Should I give to large organizations with the little I have, to be sucked up in overhead, instead of blessing directly who I know in person? Should I not wait for the Spirit to lead, and not jump a head, giving my money where ever and letting it go to waste? If I watch every penny that God gives me for myself, should I not do the same with the money that the Spirit leads me to give? That is, if there was really a separation of Gods money and our money, being that it all came from Him to start with.


My God has blessed me oohh sooo greatly on so many levels and in so many ways that I cannot began to truly let someone understand. This is, in my memory, the best my life has ever been with more blessings from God than I know what to do with. God does work miracles and I am living proof.

Until I do further study one more time, I think the most important thing is to follow the Holy Spirits leading. Be willing to give what you have to where ever God tells and shows you to give. There is certainly nothing wrong with giving to your local church. This is biblical. ten percent however is in question. ANY TIME WE GIVE APART FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE OF US ARE WE NOT DISOBEYING?

Father, all I have is yours. Use me Oh Lord, to bring others to Yourself, to show others, Lord, You in me. Thank You Father, for all You have given me. Help me Lord, to give back blessings as You have given me.

If you have the Spirit of God dwelling within you, then He will lead you step by step and as you abide in Him you will know what He wants you to do with your resources.

He does not legislate to all of His children the same thing. One size does not fit all. He leads His children by His Spirit and what He leads you to do with your resources He may not lead someone else to do with theirs. But men who are building earthly kingdoms NEED to legislate and create "rules" (laws) in order for their "kingdoms" to not only be sustained, but expand. The Lord will have nothing to do with men's kingdoms.

Axehead

 

[soupy]

-- So, if it doesn't say it in the New Testament, then it isn't to be considered?
So now the entire Old Testament is now null and void?

If you don't want to give your church 10% then don't.

But if you are going to your church every week to get spiritually fed, you owe your church something more than a token.

It is unfair to try to portray churches and their pastors as living "high on the hog" off your weekly giving.

If your church is worth its' weight in salt then besides upkeep and maint, pastor and staff salaries, gas and electric, publicaton costs and the like, they also have programs to assist the poor, homeless, abused, addicted, hospital visitations, jail ministry, missionary work, etc. etc. etc.

This all costs money. If you don't want to participate, fine. But God does expect you to participate, both financially and personally in addressing needs.

When he seperates the Sheep and the Goats, you are going to be placed in a specific group based on whether you fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick and imprisoned, etc.

Lamenting your church and stating you didn't feel they needed your money isn't going to do you much good..

Again, don't want to support your chuch? Fine.

But I can promise you that there will come a day when you have to account for what you did support....and more importantly, what you didn't.

I'm not sure but I think people are saying we are not under an obligation to give 10%. That is my view of the Bible, it doesn't mean not giving, maybe it is 10% for one, or 5% or 20% for another. I know my church uses my money wisely, so this is not a concern for me. I don't understand why people attend a church they believe is wasting money given to them by members?

 

[the stranger]

A couple interesting notes just as a side adventure:

Egyptians (including the Israelite) were required to give 20% to Pharaoh instead of 10% (Gen 47:24)

Though tithes were certainly meant for the Levite, it was also to be given to the people in need every third year (Deut. 14:28-29; 26:12)

Some good information about the many types of offerings can be found in easy to understand form on

http://www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/tabernacle/details/offerings.htm


Tithing in the Christian Church. Contrary to the assumption of
some, the early Christian church and ministry were not supported by tithes
but by freewill offerings. Many Christians pooled their goods and shared
their possessions equally (Acts 4:32-37). There was no "third tithe"
collected for the poor-as in the WCG-but rather the apostles urged each
Christian to give according to his means (II Cor. 8:2-15; 9:6-12; I John
3:17-18).

It was the Catholic church that instituted tithing in the Christian
church. Notice this admission in the New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol.
XIV, pp. 174-175:

"The early Church had no tithing system. The tithes of
the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated by the law of Christ.... But as
the Church expanded and its material needs grew more numerous and complex,
it became necessary to adopt a definite rule to which people could be held
either by a sense of moral obligation or by a precept of positive law. The
tithing of the Old Law provided an obvious model, and it began to be
taught.... The Council of Macon in 585 ordered payment of tithes and
threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply."

http://hwarmstrong.com/ar/Twisted.html

1. Under the law only agricultural products were tithed. They included
   grain, fruit, and livestock. Only products produced within the
   boundaries of the land of Israel were to be tithed. Jews living in
   Gentile lands were exempt (Leviticus 27:30-34).
2. Others exempt from the tithing law included the hired hands,
   fishermen, miners, lumber workers, construction workers, soldiers,
   weavers, potters, manufacturers, merchants, government workers, and
   priests. In short, all who were not farmers were exempt.

http://new.bereanbiblesociety.org/facts-on-tithing/


Tithing in the Old Testament

Old Testament tithing, simply stated, was a tax that the Jews had to
pay to underwrite their theocratic nation whose King was God. There were
three taxes/tithes they were required to pay.

Tax #1: Every year Jews were required to pay 10% of all their crops,
livestock and whatever else they had (Leviticus 27:30-33, Deuteronomy
14:22-29) – what was called the Levites’ Tithe. Because Israel was a
theocracy, the Levites and priests were the government officials that
needed to be supported by the citizens of Israel. If you remember, the
tribe of Levi received no land as an inheritance. They were only given
cities in all the other tribes. The tribes as such were required to
support them through this first 10% tax.

Tax #2: This second tax was collected to underwrite the cost of all
the festivals and religious ceremonies that were required by Jewish law
for Israel to observe (Deuteronomy 14:22-27). This helped underwrite all
the national events that Israel celebrated.

Tax #3: This third tax was payable every third year to provide a
welfare safety net for the poor in Israel (Deuteronomy 14:28-29).

The Jewish tax system was a flat tax of 23.33%. However, there were
still other “taxes” due, like the temple tax (Matthew 17:24). The Jews
were also not permitted to harvest their fields to the edges, leaving
the corners unharvested as an additional welfare tax to help feed the
poor (Leviticus 19:9). The annualized tax a Jew would be required to
pay might total about 25%.

So, the Old Testament tithes were the taxation system used to underwrite Israel’s national expenses.

http://www.stewardshipministries.org/blog/2012/04/27/tithes-and-offerings/



I think I'm done for now. After looking tithing up in the bible I really became quite confused. I really needed to dig around a little on the internet. Thank God for the internet.

Bottom line for me, for what I now know, tithing as we have traditionally been taught is not biblical. However, the spirit of giving to our church, to the needy, and where ever else God leads us to give certainly is biblical.

This has been in enlightening theme and topic to research.

God bless everyone

 

[williemac]

The single most important command in the scriptures is................... ( Drum role)

Study to show theyself approved!


Here Is what the OT tithes was all about.
The Tribes of Israel were all given a portion of Land to work as part of the inhertiance...... except for the Levittes.
Most everybody knows exactly what they did.. and it wasn't farming or rasing cattle.
They were to take care of reilgious duties. So since they were not to farm or raise cattle to eat the tithe was made to feed those Levites
The storeroom was only for Food to feed them and the poor.

Theose responsible forTithing to the Storeroom were the Farmers and anyone who grew crops.
People that were exempt from Tithing was everybody who weren't in those Two categories.
Fishermen did not eeven Tithe because FIsh would not keep in the storeroom in those days without a Fridgerdaire.

If one that was expected to tithe and they wanted to opt out and pay cash instead they were expected to pay a penalty.
Every 7 years, Nobody tithed.

If you were a shepard and only had 9 fresh new Sheep then you weren't expected to tithe. No, 10% is a lie.
IF you had 10 then you were expected to give one sheep to the storeroom.

When the tribes were scattered and the temple was destroyed the Levitte priesthood ended, as it was Condemned by Christ.
When the Levitte Priesthood ended so did the tithes.


Give to help the needy is what we Christians should be doing.
If you want to support a fellowship group that is enitrely up to you.
Let no one lie to you again for profit. Study it


In Malchi.
on the issue of robbing God.

They had been tithing properly. The Storeroom was full and overflowing BUT
Because their hearts were not right God refused the tithes and offereings as being valid.

Let no man decieve you.

Study to show theself approved!


Fire-7 it sounds like you found a good Pastor that is seeking the truth


Shlama w'burkate
peace & blessings

And the modern english termonology as found in the "new" King James, is.......(drum role) (2Tim.2:15)
"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". The passage has nothing to do with pouring oneself over scripture to get God's approval. Again, it certainly is not intended to say that the way to be approved by God is to get out your bible and study it. Our use of the word 'study' is not the same as waaaay back when they also said such things as ..." suffer the little chidldren to come unto Me".

But as far as the tithe is concerned, something changed at the cross. The covenant of grace came to mankind. The covenant we have with Him is not the same as the one the Jews had while under the law. In this present covenant, all things that come to us from God are freely given (Rom.8:32).
We are to shun the use of either fear or desire to motivate God's children to give. We are blessed before we give, by the grace of God, and that is precisely how we are able to give. Shame on those who entice people to give by promising them some or much financial gain as a reward from God. Shame on those who cause people to give by fear tactics, warning them that they will not prosper or worse, that they will suffer wrath from God (yyuuukk). Tithe or hell? Absolute rubbish!!
This kind of teaching does not work. People will prosper and do prosper, who do not tithe, and people can be financially burdened even if they do tithe. I have experienced both scenarios. I will assure all of you that you have the best chance of being blessed by God if you are willing to humble yourself and recieve it freely by faith......rather than trying to earn it!

 

[Foreigner]

I'm not sure but I think people are saying we are not under an obligation to give 10%. That is my view of the Bible, it doesn't mean not giving, maybe it is 10% for one, or 5% or 20% for another. I know my church uses my money wisely, so this is not a concern for me. I don't understand why people attend a church they believe is wasting money given to them by members?

I too don't understand why people would continue to attend a church they believe is wasting money that is given to them by church members.
If that is truly the case, the church is going to be less and less influenced by God and eventually end up in a train wreck.

As far as 10% goes, I guess my thought is that it is not that much. Not if you are walking in God's will and he is sustaining you for it.

And my other thought is, if it was important in the O.T. for God to direct all to give a specific percentage of their personal blessing from Him back to Him, why would it be any less in the N.T.?

Does that mean it has to go to your church? No.

But simply giving $20 a month to a "feed the poor in Africa" charity is hardly compatible.

 

[aspen]

Look, your minister supports you and your family, right? So, it is your job to contribute to his salary..........he is committed his energy and career to serving you and your family - the least you can do is contribute funds towards his bills. Does it really have to lay it out explicitly in the Bible before you are compelled to act?????

 

[Axehead]

When giving becomes a law and is legislated upon those born of the Spirit, then giving is no longer giving, it is a payment, a religious tax.

God has no need to legislate to His children when they have His Spirit. There is no issue for the Spirit-filled Christian who is abiding in Christ when it comes to giving. It is a central part of their life.

They are led by God's spirit and not men's rules/dictates and the ones that I know go way beyond the carnal payment/tax because they believe 100% of their life belongs to God.

The carnal tithe is part of the religious system. It has no place in the Kingdom of God. The religious system cannot and will not operate on the principle of faith.

 

[williemac]

Look, your minister supports you and your family, right? So, it is your job to contribute to his salary..........he is committed his energy and career to serving you and your family - the least you can do is contribute funds towards his bills. Does it really have to lay it out explicitly in the Bible before you are compelled to act?????

I agree totally. But what has this to do with the tithe? (ten percent of your earnings)

 

[soupy]

I too don't understand why people would continue to attend a church they believe is wasting money that is given to them by church members.
If that is truly the case, the church is going to be less and less influenced by God and eventually end up in a train wreck.

As far as 10% goes, I guess my thought is that it is not that much. Not if you are walking in God's will and he is sustaining you for it.

And my other thought is, if it was important in the O.T. for God to direct all to give a specific percentage of their personal blessing from Him back to Him, why would it be any less in the N.T.?

Does that mean it has to go to your church? No.

But simply giving $20 a month to a "feed the poor in Africa" charity is hardly compatible.

I also don't think 10% is much, that isn't my issue, my issue is the law of tithing, instead of cheerful giving whatever amount.

 

[Questor]

I have a question. I have a small auto brake repair business. I tithe what I make, and that is where my question is.

Lets say I do a brake job for $200, $100 of that is labor and $100 of that is parts. I make $100 on this example for my time and work, the rest goes to pay for the parts. I tithe on the $100 that I make, since the other $100 belongs to the parts store. Am I right in thinking this way?

Whatsover you give, you give of your income, not the business's gross receipts, nor even of your gross income, but that which you have to live upon.

Giving to our neighbors, to those in want, and for missionary work to send those that minister the gospel is what Yah'shua was about. He never even wanted his apostles to take a scrip (for supplies) nor a begging bowl, as was the custom of the time. Yah'shua said, "Freely you have received, freely give."

[SIZE=x-small]5[/SIZE] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[SIZE=x-small]6[/SIZE] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[SIZE=x-small]7[/SIZE] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[SIZE=x-small]8[/SIZE] Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
[SIZE=x-small]9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10[/SIZE] Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
[SIZE=x-small]11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence[/SIZE].


Matt 10:5-11 (KJV)


The most Yah'shua wanted for His Apostles and Disciples to take was the common hospitality of the time, and food to eat, and Yah'shua promised them that if they were refused hospitality, to shake to dust of the household or town from their feet, for their refusal to host the teachers of the Kingdom was a direct affront to YHVH, and would be remembered against them.

Churchianity has made much of tithing, as if what was no longer owed to the Levites automatically carried over to the new Priest class, but this is wrong, for we are all Priests and Kings, and co-heirs to the promise to Yah'shua.

Most of the 'Church' until Constantine in the late 300's met in homes, and not in formal assemblies, and those that taught were provided for food, and room in a corner to sleep, but the sending of the Gospel and the news of the Kingdom was a missionary, evangelistic work. Any church groups were founded to keep the new believers together, to study what Scriptures and letters they had, and to rejoice together, and take the Lord's Supper (Communion) just after sunset on Saturday.

Yet we know that Yah'shua meant for us to Love YHVH, and to love our neighborsas ourselves, and be in community.

Our giving is supposed to be to help people with what is most needed...to provide food, clean water, and clothing to those who have need, and to support the gospel to those who have not heard it.

I give only for encouragement, and necessities for those who need it in my community, and place the rest of my giving directly to a Messianic Synagogue who is working hard to gain fruit from amongst the Jews, and for water wells in Africa. I do not worry about what percent of my income is...it is just given as the Ruach haKodesh prompts me. Sometimes I give to people in passing, simply because I can, and I never seem to miss it.

If people who belong to large churches wish to give to their support...I remember what Yah'shua said about freely receiving, and freely giving...well I think they are supporting a specific community for themselves, to school their children, and raise their family in a protected set-apart group. That kind of church may very well need a full time minister and staff.

I don't give to get, because I am already under the blessing of YHVH through Yah'shua. I am always provided for, because I expect YHVH to keep his word to bless those that are in obedience to Him, and since in Yah'shua, I am continuously righteous, and therefore blessable, YHVH has always done so, though I may not understand the blessings I receive. It is my fath in and expection of YHVH's blessing that I simply go from day to day in praise of Him, and in thankfulness.

I myself prefer home studies, for it cost's nothing, and no demands are made upon a leader or two that have full time jobs to support themselves, even as Paul did whenever he had need.

Speak to YHVH and Yah'shua and the Ruach haKodesh directly for guidance, and keep asking for what YHVH desires of you until you find what is you personal mix and amount of giving, and to whom you should give it to


Q