Please explain this.

[stunnedbygrace]

Or I guess it could be a guy on a horse...or someone who takes someone else to court...

 

[GodsGrace]

You told me you weren't RC and I believed you--I speculated that you might be evangelical Anglican/Episcopalian or conservative Lutheran. Am I right?

Gee, I can see you know the different denominations much more than I do!
I'm not any of those.
Raised Catholic.
Attended a Nazarene church for about 10 years.
Moved to Catholiclandia many years ago.
Now all my friends are catholic and I even have
3 priests I'm friendly with...oh and then there's that Monk I study with.
In doctrine I'm protestant,,,but I love a lot of what catholicism teaches too.
I'm sorry some here hate it so much.

What kind of forgiving people are we anyway?
Because a church made mistakes many years ago....
and may still be making some today...
can't we forgive?
Jesus said to forgive.

 

[atpollard]

A charger is a really big plate that goes underneath all the other plates in a table setting

A 'charger' IS NOT a really big plate that goes underneath all the other plates in a table setting. First, only those familiar with a definition that has fallen out of general use would know that definition at all. To a new Christian, a "charger" is either "a device that restores energy to an exhausted battery" or "a cavalry horse".

This makes ...
[Mat 14:8, 11 KJV] 8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. ... 11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought [it] to her mother.
[Mar 6:25, 28 KJV] 25 And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist. ... 28 And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother.
... a confusing and nonsensical word picture of a head in a horse (since it obviously isn't a battery charger).

Even if one was familiar with the uncommon usage of 'charger' as a larger plate under the formal dinner plate, that is STILL not the definition as intended in the KJV bible where a "charger" is a sort of platter used for suckling pigs and large roasts at royal feast tables. So the word picture of a head balanced precariously on a plate is still incorrect.

One should not need to learn Christianity with a bible in one hand and a Shakespearean dictionary in the other.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So...if it isn't a big plate...what is it (in that instance.)

And a charger isn't so obscure. When you buy a set of dinnerware, or make up your wedding gift list and include dishware, chargers are one of the pieces you can purchase. So maybe women would be more familiar with what a charger is than men, but really, not so obscure.

I don't care for the KJV, incidentally, and had no idea where the word charger might be in it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe that the reason why certain people cannot understand the kjv is the principle of 1 Corinthians 2:14. They read it and think with their natural minds and therefore it comes across as foolishness to them and they cannot receive it and they do not understand it. They need the Holy Spirit to be able to understand it. Therefore, the kjv requires a dependence upon the Holy Spirit if one is going to understand it. Other translations make the concepts palatable to the natural mind.

Am I one of those certain people that cannot understand the KJV because I'm worldy minded as in 1 Corinthians 2:14?
Who said the KJV is foolishness? I didn't. I said it's DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.
So if I don't understand the KJV it means I don't have the Holy Spirit?

Where do I get this Holy Spirit I need to understand the KJV so I don't have to read those silly versions that are more palatable to my natural mind?

Gosh. And I thought I had this Holy Spirit all these long years.

What is sacrificed is the power of the gospel to save; because the concepts are watered-down to increase palatability. And the lack of potency means that salvation will not come through reading such translations except by a true miracle; over and above the miracle of regular salvation that comes more easily when you are reading the kjv: because while in reading the kjv you may not understand it, the seed is potent: but in reading other translations you may be able to understand the concept but the potency of the seed is lost or compromised. So it is a miracle either way: 1) to understand the kjv well enough to be saved by its concepts, or 2) to somehow infuse potency into that which is not potent enough to bring salvation, in translations other than the kjv.

Every other version except the King James is a watered down version of Christian doctrine? But you read the KJV and you believe in OSAS....how could this be?

You see JBF,, I see the work you put into that O.P. which I can't think of right now.
I think that was pretty incredible what you did. I have a nice challenge for you.
Read the NASB and see if you still believe in all your doctrines..the ones you believe in right now. You should really try this..it would be an interesting experiment.

Except you're one of those person, I think, that believes God wrote that version by His very own hand....and then retired. This retirement of His must be why those other versions just don't have salvation power.

Now this idea of your is so SILLY that I just refuse to speak about it any longer.
I can't convince you and there's nothing wrong with the King James except that it has more errors than newer bibles...but if you like it , I'm fine with it.

But don't tell me I believe in a watered down version of Christianity...
I'm the legalist, remember? Made of concrete...no water.

I understood it as a new Christian.

YOU are a special case.
Not every new Christian will.
Believe me on this.

Romans 12:9 dissimulation --- what that?
Romans 11:25 huh?
Romans 11:14-15 ??
Romans 11:5 ??
Romans 10:6-7

I could go on forever.
The N.T. is difficult enough without also having to have to translate it first.
Even Peter said Paul says some diffcult sayings.

Sorry, the kjv does not have any mistakes. The ones that are most often touted do not count and there are only two or three. One of them is "Easter" (which I hold to be an accurate translation of pascha when you take into account that pascha was the word for Easter in Greek culture when the kjv was translated); and the other is "God forbid" which is simply taking into account the idioms of the day. When debating the kjv-only controversy, I do not find the opposition speaking of anything other than these, as examples of mistakes in the kjv. And they simply do not count.

Well, actually, every version has mistakes.

It really depends on whether you are counting on your works to save you or whether you are relying wholly on the grace of God. If you are relying wholly on the grace of God, then you are covered by the grace of the Lord when you mess up. But if you are relying on your works to keep you saved, then you cannot be relying on the grace of God. Because grace and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to salvation (Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)). So then, the person relying on works to save them cannot revert back to grace when they mess up: they are required to do those works and if they fail to do them there is condemnation; because if they are saved by works, they are condemned over the lack of them.

The way I learned it is that the more you need grace,
the more you get.
you're saying the opposite.
Romans 11:5-6 Yes. Works do not save us. Only our faith saves us.

This is where I find you deeply lacking in understanding of the most basic doctrines of the holy scriptures. I would suggest reading the epistle of Paul to the Romans all the way through, once a day, for about three weeks; and perhaps also include the epistle of Paul to the Galatians in that reading. These books of the Bible are essential to our understanding of the doctrines of salvation. Ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you while you are reading and to give you insight, understanding, wisdom, revelation, knowledge, and faith from your encounter with the Lord in His word. Pray also that it will be an encounter.

3 weeks huh?
OK.

Pro 10:8,

The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

Seems like some here don't want to receive commandments..
and it sure isn't me!

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess then...I don't feel separated so much as...hindered sometimes. By myself...?

well, my guess there would be that the world has a bunch of rules that you now...feel obligated to abide by and follow, and they seem perfectly acceptable and even what you would call "natural" now bc forest for the trees thing, eating other humans would seem perfectly acceptable to a kid raised as a cannibal, right, and trying to have a conversation about the morality of eating other humans would just be pointless with that kid grown up i guess?

Our worlds have been ordered so that we have our cake and eat it too, in a sense, see you could literally do any thing you want, right now, right this second, only just pls dont make me leave camp broke with no spares headed who the hell knows where, down the road, lol, where i got no respect and no money and no friends, uh uh no sirree. May as well just go get a earring i guess.

Tell ya what if ya want i'll race you to Jerusalem, right now, first one to the Wall wins or whatever, what do you say? Only you gotta leave home broke, thats the only condition. What do you have to lose?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Gee, I can see you know the different denominations much more than I do!
I'm not any of those.
Raised Catholic.
Attended a Nazarene church for about 10 years.
Moved to Catholiclandia many years ago.
Now all my friends are catholic and I even have
3 priests I'm friendly with...oh and then there's that Monk I study with.
In doctrine I'm protestant,,,but I love a lot of what catholicism teaches too.
I'm sorry some here hate it so much.

I think it is important to clarify the divide between the official Roman Catholic Church, represented by the Vatican and ordinary Roman Catholics. I am opposed to hierarchies in ANY church, based on Jesus' statement in Matthew 23:8, telling us that, "...all of you are equal as brothers and sisters..." and also the notion of the "priesthood of all believers". While the Bible mandates some organization in local churches, I see no warrant for some centralized authority of wealth and power as is seen in the Vatican. Men are easily seduced by power and wealth--even King David was. This will get me into trouble with some here but I'll say it anyway: I am convinced that there are many real Christians within the RCC. But, on the other hand, I am confounded as to how they can stay there when it is clear that the RCC is very corrupt at the top of the power structure.

What kind of forgiving people are we anyway?
Because a church made mistakes many years ago....
and may still be making some today...

I don't think it is a matter of forgiving. I think it is a matter of not wanting anything to do with the corruption. True Christians have just as much of a problem with the corruption and hypocrisy present in many evangelical mega churches. All true believers are part of the Bride of Christ and we should keep ourselves separate from any institution that seeks to take advantage of our sheep-like inclinations to keep us confined to a pen, while it fleeces us. There are multiple reasons why more and more Christians are going to house churches and one of them is that perhaps we are returning to our roots. Before Constantine herded Christians into the large basilicas of the ROMAN Catholic Church, there was the Bride of Christ, in all of "her" local expressions, believing God, worshiping Christ, helping the poor and the downtrodden. She is still here today and will be until our Bridegroom comes to take us to where He is. May it be soon. Amen?

 

[bbyrd009]

And its just been that the only place He ever takes me to see is all the places where I am not trusting, even though I think I am. And I think it is those places in me that don't trust outrageously that are what hinder me.

ah, well, there ya go, perfect analogy, so to be fair you have to tell me ezackly when youre leaving so i can leave at the same time ok?

see, once you find that you aint coming back from that ok, but the notion of like "support group" or "support system" like we have is going to...undergo a pretty extreme adjustment lol, see i dont expect any help from any ppl to get to Jerusalem, and i wont be able to get there without a lot of ppls help too

 

[bbyrd009]

so anyway, dont expect to be racing you of course, but we can go out in the same Spirit i guess, see, right from our chairs even maybe, although i would def be trying to xlate that into the practical asap. We have all the good things, yeh, can literally do anything that our mouths can say, if we are determined enough; but cant hardly walk around the block or ask "what is it?" practically impossible for many.

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess then...I don't feel separated so much as...hindered sometimes. By myself...?

"you have ppl living in your head, and they want to kill you" is i'm pretty sure the quote, or close enough, by Butter's therapist,
Watch South Park Season 15-episode-6-City Sushi full episodes online free kisscartoon
ya, cant find just the snip, sorry about the ads and prolly raunchy warning for the rest of the episode too lol, i mean SP, playing Moses, whaddya gonnado

 

[atpollard]

So...if it isn't a big plate...what is it (in that instance.)

And a charger isn't so obscure. When you buy a set of dinnerware, or make up your wedding gift list and include dishware, chargers are one of the pieces you can purchase. So maybe women would be more familiar with what a charger is than men, but really, not so obscure.

I don't care for the KJV, incidentally, and had no idea where the word charger might be in it.

Sorry, I came across too strong.
"Translation 'A' is inspired by God but translation 'B' is not inspired by God" is just one of those errors that really ticks me off.
You just got caught in the splatter.

As modern dinner service, a Charger is most commonly a plate a little larger than a normal plate. (Can you imagine trying to balance a severed human head on a large dinner plate? It makes the Bible story seem less believable.)
A less common modern dinner service use is a large serving plate, which is still relatively flat like a dish. (At least the servant now has a larger plate for the head to roll around on as it is brought to the King.)

In the 1600's a "charger" was either a warhorse, or a very large platter with handles on both ends and sides like a bowl. It was large enough to place an entire roast pig on it. (Is it easier to imagine the head of John the Baptist being brought to the King on a serving platter with sides and handles large enough to carry a roast pig dripping with juice?)

It was the argument that a new Christian could read the KJV and understand just fine that I took exception to. The KJV has many wonderful qualities including making a distinction between you (singular) and you (plural), as well as having a good cadence when read aloud ... but being easy to read by new Christians is NOT one of its strong points.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree. I tried it and immediately ran out to find a diff translation. I did kind of chuckle at some of it though, like...by now he stinketh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"you have ppl living in your head, and they want to kill you" is i'm pretty sure the quote, or close enough, by Butter's therapist,
Watch South Park Season 15-episode-6-City Sushi full episodes online free kisscartoon
ya, cant find just the snip, sorry about the ads and prolly raunchy warning for the rest of the episode too lol, i mean SP, playing Moses, whaddya gonnado

My husband used to watch that. Are they still killing Kenny?

 

[bbyrd009]

My husband used to watch that. Are they still killing Kenny?

ah, dunno, i dont watch it myself. Did you get the "confused" scenario, there though? Guess without some backstory you might not get teh point maybe, gotta know who "inspector butters" and "professor chaos" are i guess. But the pointis that Butters is the Naive, the straight guy? He's "confused," and says he's cofused, and the therapist is even agreeing that he's confused, only he isnt the one who is confused at all, see. The grownup adult therapist is projecting, ergo they are not even having a convo, right, they are speaking at cross purposes, only Butters being a literal 4 year old Naive is not aware of that

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So...if it isn't a big plate...what is it (in that instance.)

And a charger isn't so obscure. When you buy a set of dinnerware, or make up your wedding gift list and include dishware, chargers are one of the pieces you can purchase. So maybe women would be more familiar with what a charger is than men, but really, not so obscure.

I don't care for the KJV, incidentally, and had no idea where the word charger might be in it.

If I was reading something apart from the Bible which was written in that time period (KJV-Shakespearean times) and the word cropped up, I would think of the lead battle horse in a war.

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, dunno, i dont watch it myself. Did you get the "confused" scenario, there though? Guess without some backstory you might not get teh point maybe, gotta know who "inspector butters" and "professor chaos" are i guess. But the pointis that Butters is the Naive, the straight guy? He's "confused," and says he's cofused, and the therapist is even agreeing that he's confused, only he isnt the one who is confused at all, see. The grownup adult therapist is projecting, ergo they are not even having a convo, right, they are speaking at cross purposes, only Butters being a literal 4 year old Naive is not aware of that

interpretation "idk, and idc, and see what you are doing there dropping all the other threads you could have picked up to instead go to familiar territory, having suddenly found yourself in an unfamiliar town."

so, all in our heads, see, and there really is no "where" to go, no "thing" to do

 

[bbyrd009]

the definition as intended in the KJV bible where a "charger" is a sort of platter used for suckling pigs and large roasts at royal feast tables. So the word picture of a head balanced precariously on a plate is still incorrect.

but the word picture of a head balanced on a platter used for pigs and roasts is? Guess i'm not following there. Maybe i am confused?

 

[Episkopos]

A charger is a really big plate that goes underneath all the other plates in a table setting...or someone who just can't stop buying things with a plastic card...

Or a model of car by Dodge...often with a 318 in it!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I agree. I tried it and immediately ran out to find a diff translation. I did kind of chuckle at some of it though, like...by now he stinketh.

The Elizabethans were not known for a great amount of delicacy. The NLT says, "the odor will be terrible". Not sure which is better. (John 11:39) The NASB has the more pleasant wording.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ah, dunno, i dont watch it myself. Did you get the "confused" scenario, there though? Guess without some backstory you might not get teh point maybe, gotta know who "inspector butters" and "professor chaos" are i guess. But the pointis that Butters is the Naive, the straight guy? He's "confused," and says he's cofused, and the therapist is even agreeing that he's confused, only he isnt the one who is confused at all, see. The grownup adult therapist is projecting, ergo they are not even having a convo, right, they are speaking at cross purposes, only Butters being a literal 4 year old Naive is not aware of that

I didn't think this was ever going to happen, but...I sort of understand you better now...never understood what you meant by "homo." I think you just mean straight and queer in a much different way than I've understood.