Poll. Will we be judged when we die?
- Thread starter Armour of God
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The GWTJ takes place at the end of this age. So, yes, you are correct when the seventh trumpet begins to sound that time given this earth whereby man might be saved, Christ returns and then comes Judgment Day. This is how we know a/the thousand years symbolizes time from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound. There will not be another ONE thousand years of time given this earth when Christ comes again.
Re 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Re 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: (some translations; no longer delay)
Re 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The Bible speaks only of the First Resurrection, that points to the bodily resurrection of Christ we must partake of to be born again of His Spirit, and the Bible also speaks of the bodily resurrection of all the DEAD at the GWTJ. There will not be a bodily resurrection of born-again saints, and a separate bodily resurrection of the dead from the graves one thousand years later.
Again, you are correct, since those who have part in the resurrection of Christ; that is the First Resurrection, will not be judged at the GWTJ. Because only the DEAD will be judged then. The body of Christ; all those who have part in Christ (First Resurrection) were judged in life before they died through the Gospel and the Spirit sent from Christ in them. At the GWTJ the born-again body of Christ will be on the right hand of Christ already changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible as we read in 1 Cor 15:51-57.
Yes, those who have part in the First Resurrection at the GWTJ will hear Christ saying to them: "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". (Matthew 25:34 (KJV)
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I agree, we are judged in life according to our works, that is why Paul, speaking to the body of Christ (church) says "we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" during our lifetime. The judgment seat of Christ, unlike the great white throne judgment helps believers to grow in faith and obedience by listening to and heeding the Holy Spirit in us. The GWTJ is not for born again believers, it shall be for the DEAD, those who die never having been born again. Their works in life will testify or judge against them because they never had faith to believe in Christ. Without faith it is impossible to please God, which is why Christ says, "Ye must be born again".
Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
The judgement for believers who have received the down payment (the first resurrection) is not a judgement to either life or death, they have escaped death. Their judgement is to either honor or dishonor/outer darkness.
It is the second judgement (the second resurrection)that will result in either life or death. The Protestant machine denies that men who treated others and cared about others as well as they treated and cared about themselves can be shown the same mercy they themselves showed to others. They deny that any men can show they have Gods’ laws written on their hearts and are a law unto themselves. The Protestant machine denies that God will show mercy to and forgive a man who shows mercy to others and forgives others. They deny that He can judge anyone with the same measure with which they have judged others.
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You've said this well! All of mankind will be at the GWTJ as Matthew shows, the DEAD, those never born again will be there to be judged according to their deeds in the flesh done without faith to believe in Christ. Those on the right hand of Christ have already been judged righteous through faith in Christ, therefore they will receive the "great reward" we are promised that is immortal/incorruptible body that will never know sin or death made alive through our eternal spirit; fit to live with Christ forevermore on the new earth.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I believe scripture makes it clear that we will all be judged after we die. The real question is, "what will judgment look like for the righteous in contrast with judgment for the unrighteous?"
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
This is correct until you said "there will be rewards for what we did right". We can do nothing without Christ in us. Christ gets the glory, not We. You can't let pride get in there
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
We can't do nothing, that's pride. Its Christ in us, to His Glory.
What you're calling judgment (I assume referring to GWTJ) for the righteous, I believe is better understood as our promised REWARD (singular). It is the DEAD at the GWTJ being called to give account for what they have done in life (physical body) without faith in Christ; unbelievers. Of course, the Bible shows even the body of Christ, born again Christians, are being judged during their lives. The church in life stands before the judgment seat of Christ not for condemnation, but that we may grow in faith and righteousness. When we have done good for the body of Christ in this life, we receive many blessings (not rewards) from God for the good things we do (Mk 10:30; Lu 18:30; 2 Th 2:16-17). But when believers are judged to have done bad unto the body of Christ, we are not condemned with unbelievers, but chastened by God, that we might learn obedience and to do good. (Heb 12:5-11; Rev 3:19; Jas 1:12; 1 Cor 11:30-32)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Yes, I see the judgment seat of Christ (bema seat) for believers as determining rewards and loss of rewards (1 Corinthians 3:11-15) and the great white throne judgment as the final, ultimate judgment for the (dead) unbelievers (Revelation 20:11-15) and some will receive greater condemnation. (Matthew 23:14)
I understand that. The problem I have with calling God's blessings rewards is the confusion and contradiction it causes. To my knowledge there is no verse that says Christians shall receive rewards (plural) for doing good either in this age or the eternal age to come. The promise (crown of life) God has given born again believers is a single REWARD. We might receive many BLESSINGS in this age, and in the age to come our promised reward of everlasting life with Christ when we inherit the new earth.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
You see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 as only pertaining to a single reward?
The Bible mentions 5 crowns. 1. The incorruptible crown. (1 Corinthians 9:25) 2. The crown of rejoicing. (1 Thessalonians 2:19) 3. The crown of righteousness. (2 Timothy 4:8) 4. The crown of glory. (1 Peter 5:4) 5. The crown of life. (Revelation 2:10)
The way I have come to understand this passage of Scripture starts with Paul saying we should not elevate one believer above another, because we are all working together for the same cause that is built upon the true foundation that is the foundation of Christ.
Paul cautions us not to build on any other foundation that has been laid, which is Jesus Christ. The foundation of Christ comes from truth from the Word of God. When we build on Biblical truth the foundation we build upon shall endure forever, that is gold, silver, and precious stones.
How often while we build upon the foundation of Christ from the Bible, we also try to build through our own assumption, opinion, what we think is truth, sometimes from ourselves and other times from deceivers, liars antichrists. Paul likens this to things that shall be burned up, wood, hay and stubble. Paul says our work shall be made known "for the day shall declare it". I believe Paul is saying the work that shall be burned up shall be revealed during this 'age' not a single day of judgment, but while the Gospel of the Kingdom of God preached is building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven. The revelation by fire comes through correction, clarity, teaching through the Holy Spirit as we study and continue to grow in understanding of biblical doctrine by grace through faith. When we have been born again having the Spirit of God in us, as long as we are in this body of sin, we are eternally secure, however, we must still wage the spiritual battle against our natural man (thoughts of our own flesh, the world and Satan) and the spiritual man we have become. But we have His promise our work built upon the foundation of Christ shall last, and we shall receive the promised reward.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:18 ¶ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
The heavenly crowns give assurance to born-again believers receiving the eternal crown of life. They symbolize how God recognizes our faithfulness, perseverance, and devotion to Him. They are not literal but represent attributes Christians possess through faith in God.
Ahhhh, no, but just assured us of... well, getting a passing grade. :) For now, we have been credited with the righteousness of Christ. And on the day of the final Judgment, because of this, we will "pass." <smile> This is what we are absolutely assured of.
Hmmm... Well that's not a bad translation, but maybe a little more ambiguous than it should be. The better translation of verse 24 comes from the English Standard Version (ESV) and also the New American Standard Bible (NASB): "He does not come into judgment." In this, Jesus does not say believers will not be judged. He's saying there, in slightly different words, what Paul affirms in Romans 8:1, that "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." We will not come into judgment in that same sense. And Jesus reaffirms this in verse 28 and 29... summing it up, as it were, saying some are resurrected to the resurrection of life, and others are resurrected to the resurrection of judgment. And what is the dividing line, so to speak? The delineation between the two? Well, doing good (works) and doing evil (also works). And, in the final Judgment, that dividing line, that delineation will be drawn and made explicity and absolutely clear... by Christ Jesus... regarding both those on His right and those on His left. We will all be judged according to what we have done.
Right, including us, including believers. All will be judged according to what they have done. Which, again, we see graphically in Matthew 25:31-46, particularly verses 34-36 and 40 regarding believers, and in verses 42-43 and 45 regarding unbelievers. It's really impossible to read this passage and think, with any validity, that believers will not be judged in the final Judgment. We will be, but according to the righteousness of Christ, which we have now, as it's been credited to us, again, just as with Abraham long, long ago. So again, we are not exempt from the final Judgment... as the verses I cited in my post (91) above, and will do so again here:
"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury" (Paul, Romans 2:6-8)
"...we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." (Paul, 2 Corinthians 13:7;
"...just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him" (Hebrews 9:27-28).
But we will with absolute certainty be judged according to the righteousness of Christ and will thus "pass," and will be "blessed by (the) Father (and) inherit (with Christ Jesus) the Kingdom prepared for (us) from the foundation of the world."
Grace and peace to you, BMS.
RandyDawson
Member
But only for those that walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Absolutely. And why, RWB? What does Jesus say to those on His right immediately after this, in verses 35, 36, and 40? Why does He judge them, um, favorably? <smile> Well, because of... according to... what they have done... <smile> The interesting thing to me is that even they are ~ we will be ~ at least somewhat surprised: "...when did we (do these things)...?" <smile> But Jesus answers that, saying, "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to Me."
Grace and peace to you.
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Sure, but believers will do this. As God says in Ezekiel 11 and 36, "I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God." If we have the Spirit, we are walking in the Spirit. We don't always do it well, and will never in this life do it perfectly, but we do; God, by His Spirit, is at work in us. We may fail, but the Holy Spirit will not. And this good work that He began in us He will bring to completion at the day of Christ. We can be certain of that, just as Paul was when he wrote that to the Philippians (Philippians 1:6). And this is how we can, by our good works, work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in us, so that we will and work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:12:13). Yes? <smile>
Grace and peace to you.
I mean, in the sense you say that, yes, I fully agree. Yes, we "can't do nothing"... anything <smile> ... with any righteousness of our own. Yes, right. But in a human, experiential sense, yes, we can do... a whole lot of things... <smile> And we can, as Paul urges us to do, work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but you're right, it is God who works in you, both to will (so that we will) and to work (so that we work) for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:12-13, cited above). So yes, glory be the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Soli Deo gloria. Absolutely.
Grace and peace to you, RD.
This is interesting. <smile> There are two covenants, and they are not ~ as many suppose ~ the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The two covenants are the Covenant of Works, whose mediator is Adam, and the Covenant of Grace, whose mediator is Christ Jesus. Adam and Eve were under the Covenant of Works. But Adam failed, in the events of Genesis 3, and the Covenant of Grace, established and first proclaimed by God in Genesis 3:15, has been in effect ever since then that point. Since Adam, there have been different administrations of this Covenant of Grace, none of which are not stand-alone covenants but cumulative, and finally fully revealed and made manifest in the Person of Jesus Christ. Or, we could say the New Covenant is stand-alone but contains all the previous adminstrations. The covenant of life was remade with Noah, covenant of land, nation, and descendants with Abram (who became Abraham), the covenant of the law with Moses, and the covenant of forever kingship with David. Jesus Christ is the full embodiment of all these "lesser" covenants:
- He is the way, the truth and the life.
- He is the Israel of God, and with Him we will inherit the whole earth... Matthew 5:5... not just a tiny land parcel on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea.
- He is the true end of the Law, as Paul puts it in Romans 10:4, Christ is the Law, as Paul says in Galatians 6:2, and the writer of Hebrews says in Hebrews 7.
- He is our Forever King... so "greater" in the sense that He is God's everlasting covenant ~ the New Covenant ~ in this sense.
