Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

[Truth7t7]

Except that is not what the bible says will happen in the rapture or the great snatching away!

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We do not escape byt going into hiding- but by being pulled off the earth to meet the Lord in the atmosphere.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A (Pre-Tribulation Rapture) Of The Church To Heaven, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

Haven't you ever found it odd that jesus did not tell them- "you guys are just wrong! There is no more kingdom on earth for Israel. those days are done and now it is all spiritual. When I return I won't set up an earthly kingdom, but do all the stuff I promised in the OT and the gospels and then whisk back up to heaven!"

But instead He told His clsest disciples, that that time was not in His hands but the Fathers hands! Sorry you do not think jesus said what He meant here!

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

When I return I won't set up an earthly kingdom, but do all the stuff I promised in the OT and the gospels and then whisk back up to heaven!"

But instead He told His clsest disciples, that that time was not in His hands but the Fathers hands! Sorry you do not think jesus said what He meant here!

Not one place in the Old or New testament is a Millennial Kingdom on this earth mentioned as you claim, nowhere

 

[Iconoclast]

Perhaps not what you mean by it.

If you propose that being "dispensational" means that you follow some particular dispensationalist's model, then I'd suggest that maybe you misapply the meaning. Perhaps you'd care to offer more than your criticisms, and instead show what you think of as being "Dispensationalism".

Myself, I will stand by my explanation. This is what the Bible teaches.

Much love!

Classic dispensationalism teaches there are 7 dispensations.
Often you comment on things that you have no knowledge of.
..putting much love! on all your posts does not turn error into truth.
What you do is constantly attempt to to redefine things as you want to.

it would be the same as saying you can play baseball without home plate, a strike zone, or bases.

 

[Truth7t7]

Classic dispensationalism teaches there are 7 dispensations.
Often you comment on things that you have no knowledge of.
..putting much love! on all your posts does not turn error into truth.
What you do is constantly attempt to to redefine things as you want to.

it would be the same as saying you can play baseball without home plate, a strike zone, or bases.

Well said, I agree

And the same could be said about Preterism, in symbolic 70AD fulfillment of future literal events seen

 

[Iconoclast]

Well said, I agree

And the same could be said about Preterism, in symbolic 70AD fulfillment of future literal events seen

t7t7
This thread is designed to explore postmill teaching, in contrast to what is geld in many churches.
No one has answered the bell yet.

 

[Iconoclast]

t7t7
This thread is designed to explore postmill teaching, in contrast to what is geld in many churches.
No one has answered the bell yet.

We agree on several points.
Your failure to see the Covenant curses of Deut.28-33 being pronounced upon apostate Jerusalem by Jesus...mt21-24.
All of Mt 23 speaks to this. Jesus spoke to the Jewish leaders face to face,saying those curses where coming upon them,in 70ad.
mt23:36-39...not in our future but theirs.

 

[Truth7t7]

t7t7
This thread is designed to explore postmill teaching, in contrast to what is geld in many churches.
No one has answered the bell yet.

The Bell Has Been Answered, There Will Be No Future Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Iconoclast]

Well said, I agree

And the same could be said about Preterism, in symbolic 70AD fulfillment of future literal events seen

The symbols from the ot. get plugged in to mt24 and speak of the seventy ad judgments very literally.
For your view to happen,everything that existed then, would have to be recreated?
A new temple?
Earthly secular Jerusalem would become the Holy place???
Why???
Animal sacrifices?
Earthly priests???
The book of Hebrews shows this is not possible.

 

[Truth7t7]

We agree on several points.
Your failure to see the Covenant curses of Deut.28-33 being pronounced upon apostate Jerusalem by Jesus...mt21-24.
All of Mt 23 speaks to this. Jesus spoke to the Jewish leaders face to face,saying those curses where coming upon them,in 70ad.
mt23:36-39...not in our future but theirs.

We Will Disagree, the entire chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to the literal future second coming of Jesus Christ

No this future event didnt take place in a "Symbolic" Judgement Of Israel In 70AD

Jesus Christ In The Clouds, Being Seen By Humans On Earth, Isn't Erased in Your Symbolism, "Not"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Truth7t7]

For your view to happen,everything that existed then, would have to be recreated?
A new temple?
Earthly secular Jerusalem would become the Holy place???
Why???
Animal sacrifices?
Earthly priests???
The book of Hebrews shows this is not possible.

Your claims are in error, and in disregard of Isaiah 66:1-4 below

A future temple and animal sacrifice in Jerusalem as seen below, will be an abomination to the Lord, and the finished work on Calvary

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

 

[Truth7t7]

The symbols from the ot. get plugged in to mt24 and speak of the seventy ad judgments very literally.

We Will Disagree, Your Claims Of A Symbolic Judgement On Israel, Dosen't Replace The Literal Second Coming, Where Human Eyes On Earth Witness This "Future" Event As Seen Below

No this future event didnt take place in a "Symbolic" Judgement Of Israel In 70AD

Jesus Christ In The Clouds, Being Seen By Humans On Earth, Isn't Erased in Your Symbolism, "Not"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 24:30 KJV
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Psalm 19 clearly states who these clouds and heavens are.
Psalm 19:1-6 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
Sun, moon, stars.

 

[Waiting on him]

He is witnessed coming in in in them

this is your consummation 7t7.

 

[Truth7t7]

He is witnessed coming in in in them

this is your consummation 7t7.

I Strongly Disagree, Scripture clearly teaches, humans on this earth will be eyewitnesses of Jesus returning in the clouds of heaven "Literally"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Waiting on him]

I Strongly Disagree, Scripture clearly teaches, humans on this earth will be eyewitnesses of Jesus returning in the clouds of heaven "Literally"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Then you deny He has come in the flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Hebrews 1:1-8 KJV
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; [4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. [7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. [8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you deny He has come in the flesh.

I deny Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?

100% "False"

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, walked upon this earth in human flesh being God, he shed his blood upon Calvary for the sins of the world, he died and on the 3rd day resurrected in a glorified, tangible, immortal body of flesh and bone, he ascended to the right hand of the father where he is presently

Jesus will return a second time, and every human eye on earth will see him in this "Future" event, just as the scripture teaches below

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Iconoclast, we are not under a great commission, this is where all the trouble began. Jesus told His disciples to go unto all the nations, baptizing in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.


He was referring to the nations of Israel.

 

[marks]

Classic dispensationalism teaches there are 7 dispensations.

I've looked at dispensationalist models which range from 5 up to 11 dispensations. Clarence Larkin is where I'd suggest someone starting if they want to begin studing on some of the dispensationalist's timelines.

And people's labels for their dispensations are equally varied. This is because these labels aren't used in the Bible, therefore, they lack a standardized meaning.

Sir Robert Anderson's, The Silence of God, while lengthy and somewhat tedious to read, still, I thought it well worth the time, for his way to communicate how it is that God does different things as different times, and how it is that we are not now in a time of wrath, though one it coming.

Of course there is a lot more to study if one wants to.

I've come to this, that we can start with the basics. What "dispensation" actually means, and where do we begin to find them in the Bible.

If you want to go deeper we can. If you think there is no deeper to go, then, OK.

Much love!