Pre-Destination Or Free Will ???

[SovereignGrace]

That's not the point. I think that the doctrine of unconditional election vilifies God.

I think God wants everyone to be saved, to know Him, to have eternal life. But He offers, not forces that people can be with Him. I make no accusation against God.

I don't believe that He creates people, then commands them to repent of their sins and obey the Gospel - which is a commandment, not a suggestion - all the while knowing that they can't unless He recreates them, and though He commands repentance and obedience, the whole time He knows He has absolutely no intention of making them new so they can obey.

The God I know loves everyone He created, and wants them all, but only if they are willing. And so the fault that some are not saves is upon those who are not saved. They could have been, but they chose not to.

Much love!
Mark

Again, God has the ability to save everybody but He doesn’t. He purposely withholds His saving grace from some, bestows it on others. You’re making railing accusations against Him.

I give you the last word.

 

[marks]

You are extrapolating one verse from its context, making it more palatable for you to swallow. Read 1 Timothy 2:5-7]

Actually I'm taking this thought from quite a number of verses.

Let's see the one you are referencing:

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

This sounds rather inclusive to me.

?

 

[marks]

Again, God has the ability to save everybody but He doesn’t. He purposely withholds His saving grace from some, bestows it on others. You’re making railing accusations against Him.

I give you the last word.

What you are doing is putting words in my mouth. I make no accusation.

I think we're starting to go in circles.

 

[marks]

It is these types who call us arrogant

Just to snip something out, just wondering, can you point me to where I called you arrogant?

Much love!

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Much love? When's the last time you sold everything and gave it and yourself for the betterment of your enemies?

I'm not buying the "much love" thing myself. Seems quite contrary when calling our biblical Gospel of God arrogance. Arrogant because God gets all the glory? And they're humble because they have an aversion to giving him due glory, and reserve some glory for themselves because they came out of the their own love, not "robots?"

Please. How asinine.

Their gospel is patently false.

It's remarkable he can twist 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 into God chose him because he came to him on his own, completely annihilating all boasting goes to the LORD, "so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." Yet, he does anyhow, reserving glory for his coming in his own ability.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Then why doesn’t He go ahead and save everybody, seeing He has the power to save everyone?

Because they don't exercise their faith.

Wait, that comes from God, not all have faith.

Maybe because in their free will they came to God, but they came without faith, so they came to someone they do not believe in. While hating him in their enmity and hostility.

Hmmm. Something, no, lots of things are amiss in their fabricated, unbiblical mess.

Better return to Scripture...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Because they don't exercise their faith.

Wait, that comes from God, not all have faith.

Maybe because in their free will they came to God, but they came without faith, so they came to someone they do not believe in. While hating him in their enmity and hostility.

Hmmm. Something, no, lots of things are amiss in their fabricated, unbiblical mess.

Better return to Scripture...

Exactly. It’s square peg meet round hole theology.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What you are doing is putting words in my mouth. I make no accusation.

I think we're starting to go in circles.

You said unconditional election vilifies God. What conditions do the lost have to meet in order to be saved? The opposite of unconditional is conditional. So what conditions do they meet to merit God’s favor, unmerited grace?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Exactly. It’s square peg meet round hole theology.

It's futile, @marks is hostile toward the true Gospel. He will not receive the things of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:14. When it comes time to talk of him and his ability? He's all in.

It is a total aversion to giving God all the glory, like all free willers.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It's futile, @marks is hostile toward the true Gospel. He will not receive the things of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:14. When it comes time to talk of him and his ability? He's all in.

It is a total aversion to giving God all the glory, like all free willers.

@marks states unconditional election vilifies God. So, the cross alone did not meet every condition per him and his theology.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You said unconditional election vilifies God. What conditions do the lost have to meet in order to be saved? The opposite of unconditional is conditional. So what conditions do they meet to merit God’s favor, unmerited grace?

Romans 9:20 in action, calling God unjust for doing as he wills. He does it with no shame, after all his god is a bellhop pushover.

They gotta hate Matthew 20:1-16.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Because they don't exercise their faith.

Wait, that comes from God, not all have faith.

Maybe because in their free will they came to God, but they came without faith, so they came to someone they do not believe in. While hating him in their enmity and hostility.

Hmmm. Something, no, lots of things are amiss in their fabricated, unbiblical mess.

Better return to Scripture...

The misquote Romans 12:3, 1 John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9...just for starters.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Romans 9:20 in action, calling God unjust for doing as he wills. He does it with no shame, after all his god is a bellhop pushover.

They gotta hate Matthew 20:1-16.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@marks states unconditional election vilifies God. So, the cross alone did not meet every condition per him and his theology.

Exactly, his god chose him after he jumped through a hoop. He was chosen because if his works, turning grace into merit. This is what lost people believe, they'll go to heaven because of what they've done.

His gospel is false, self exalting, and of works. He doesn't believe the Gospel of grace at all. Him, him, him...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Exactly, his god chose him after he jumped through a hoop. He was chosen because if his works, turning grace into merit. This is what lost people believe, they'll go to heaven because of what they've done.

His gospel is false, self exalting, and of works. He doesn't believe the Gospel of grace at all. Him, him, him...

They say God saw who would and who wouldn’t and elected accordingly. That’s their (twisted, warped, grotesque) view of election. If God had to see this, then He didn’t know this. Another attribute they have taken from Him. Hey, He’s looking more like molech by the second.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Exactly, his god chose him after he jumped through a hoop. He was chosen because if his works, turning grace into merit. This is what lost people believe, they'll go to heaven because of what they've done.

His gospel is false, self exalting, and of works. He doesn't believe the Gospel of grace at all. Him, him, him...

I’m still waiting on what conditions we had to meet that the cross didn’t, per @marks theology.

 

[marks]

They say God saw who would and who wouldn’t and elected accordingly. That’s their (twisted, warped, grotesque) view of election. If God had to see this, then He didn’t know this. Another attribute they have taken from Him. Hey, He’s looking more like molech by the second.

You're saying foreknowledge takes away attributes from God? How do you get that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I’m still waiting on what conditions we had to meet that the cross didn’t, per @marks theology.

Anyway, like I said, we're going in circles. So why? And when I look over the recent posts, you all seem to be having a good time putting words into my mouth and then arguing against them. So like, why get in the way of that?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Seems quite contrary when calling our biblical Gospel of God arrogance. Arrogant because God gets all the glory?

Your words, not mine. Argue with them to your heart's content.

Much love!
Mark

 

[SovereignGrace]

Anyway, like I said, we're going in circles. So why? And when I look over the recent posts, you all seem to be having a good time putting words into my mouth and then arguing against them. So like, why get in the way of that?

Much love!
Mark

Again, what conditions do the lost meet the cross didn’t?

#I’llbewaiting