Pre-Destined Elect - simplified.

[justbyfaith]

Your presumption is overwhelming.

Rather see as written in God's Word:
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord ...
[Search domain biblehub.com/1_peter/3-15.htm] 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that you have. But respond with gentleness and respect,
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Christian Standard Bible but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

When you give an idea, without a Scriptural reason or support, there is no known Scriptural support to accept it nor to , as if, study it , nor to learn it.

Your pearls appear as dross, without any Scripture to support them.

Except that I am giving scripture to support them. As a matter of fact, the pearls are verses of scripture.

My rationale is found in Proverbs 12:23 and Proverbs 15:7. These seem to contradict but I have found a way to reconcile them in my style of preaching.

You can look them up or not...your choice.

 

[Joseph77]

Except that I am giving scripture to support them. As a matter of fact, the pearls are verses of scripture.

My rationale is found in Proverbs 12:23 and Proverbs 15:7. These seem to contradict but I have found a way to reconcile them in my style of preaching.

You can look them up or not...your choice.

I figure if you were interested and true enough to post the text so everyone reading including those with cell phones on whose screeens those references do not render could see what you are talking about,
it might be something to consider.
But your ideas/opinions are not enough reason to believe you-
and you have not done as requested nor as written >>
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord ...
biblehub.com/1_peter/3-15.htm
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Christian Standard Bible but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

 

[Truther]

"predesinted according to FORE-KNOWLEDGE".

This means everyone's eternal destiny, is already KNOWN by God, even before they are born.
"fore-knowledge"- to KNOW everything BEFORE it happens".

To foreknow is to foreSEE.

God saw these folks take the mark of the beast in Rev before the foundation of the world, therefore their names were not written in the book of life that far back.

 

[justbyfaith]

I figure if you were interested and true enough to post the text so everyone reading including those with cell phones on whose screeens those references do not render could see what you are talking about,
it might be something to consider.
But your ideas/opinions are not enough reason to believe you-
and you have not done as requested nor as written >>
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord ...
biblehub.com/1_peter/3-15.htm
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Christian Standard Bible but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

Are you asking for the reason for the hope that is within me?

I will say to you clearly what my testimony is.

I have typed it out in the testimony section of these boards (will post a link shortly).

But I am saying that I have a specific style of ministry and I am not going to change it for you.

It is based on a reconciliation of Proverbs 12:23 and Proverbs 15:7.

Maybe you should get a real computer.

If you can't do that, I would suggest having your Bible right alongside your phone so that you can look up the scriptures that are referenced by people.

My testimony (justbyfaith).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

To foreknow is to foreSEE.

God saw these folks take the mark of the beast in Rev before the foundation of the world, therefore their names were not written in the book of life that far back.

False;
from a previous thread;
God foreknows what will be because He has decreed what shall be . It is therefore a reversing of the order of Scripture, a putting of the cart before the horse, to affirm that God elects because He foreknows people. The truth is, He “foreknows” because He has elected . This removes the ground or cause of election from outside the creature, and places it in God’s own sovereign will. God purposed in Himself to elect a certain people, not because of anything good in them or from them, either actual or foreseen, but solely out of His own mere pleasure. As to why He chose the ones He did, we do not know, and can only say, “Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.” The plain truth of Romans 8:29 is that God, before the foundation of the world, singled out certain sinners and appointed them unto salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13). This is clear from the concluding words of the verse: “Predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son,” etc. God did not predestinate those whom He foreknew were “conformed,” but, on the contrary, those whom He “foreknew” (i.e., loved and elected) He predestinated to be conformed. Their conformity to Christ is not the cause, but the effect of God’s foreknowledge and predestination.

God did not elect any sinner because He foresaw that he would believe, for the simple but sufficient reason that no sinner ever does believe until God gives him faith; just as no man sees until God gives him sight. Sight is God’s gift, seeing is the consequence of my using His gift. So faith is God’s gift ( Ephesians 1:8,9), believing is the consequence of my using His gift. If it were true that God had elected certain ones to be saved because in due time they would believe, then that would make believing a meritorious act, and in that event the saved sinner would have ground for “boasting,” which Scripture emphatically denies: Ephesians 2:9.

 

[Renniks]

It is always refreshing when someone that rejects Reformed Theology decides to explain what it teaches.

No one I know that believes TULIP, believes what you have refuted in the OP. So we have the thorough public thrashing of yet another STRAWMAN, while all serious discussion of what Reformed Theology teaches and how that teaching aligns with scripture remains pushed into the closet for another day.

How can you believe in TULIP and not believe God ordains some to hell and some to heaven? It's right there in your acronym.

 

[justbyfaith]

Personally, I believe that God predestinated us according to His foreknowledge.

He is outside of time; and all who ever were or will be redeemed are already in eternity praising Him for ever.

He knows who these people are; and He exerts the utmost effort in saving them as He creates them and gives them a life on earth. Love never fails; and God specifically loves the redeemed (the elect ones) whom He sees already worshiping Him in heaven.

(will post a link to something shortly).

see posts #76 and #77 (Commentary on Romans.).

 

[Truther]

False;
from a previous thread;
God foreknows what will be because He has decreed what shall be . It is therefore a reversing of the order of Scripture, a putting of the cart before the horse, to affirm that God elects because He foreknows people. The truth is, He “foreknows” because He has elected . This removes the ground or cause of election from outside the creature, and places it in God’s own sovereign will. God purposed in Himself to elect a certain people, not because of anything good in them or from them, either actual or foreseen, but solely out of His own mere pleasure. As to why He chose the ones He did, we do not know, and can only say, “Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.” The plain truth of Romans 8:29 is that God, before the foundation of the world, singled out certain sinners and appointed them unto salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13). This is clear from the concluding words of the verse: “Predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son,” etc. God did not predestinate those whom He foreknew were “conformed,” but, on the contrary, those whom He “foreknew” (i.e., loved and elected) He predestinated to be conformed. Their conformity to Christ is not the cause, but the effect of God’s foreknowledge and predestination.

God did not elect any sinner because He foresaw that he would believe, for the simple but sufficient reason that no sinner ever does believe until God gives him faith; just as no man sees until God gives him sight. Sight is God’s gift, seeing is the consequence of my using His gift. So faith is God’s gift ( Ephesians 1:8,9), believing is the consequence of my using His gift. If it were true that God had elected certain ones to be saved because in due time they would believe, then that would make believing a meritorious act, and in that event the saved sinner would have ground for “boasting,” which Scripture emphatically denies: Ephesians 2:9.

False.

The truth...

Rev 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

False.

The truth...

Rev 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This verse is not a response to biblical foreknowledge.

 

[Candidus]

How can you believe in TULIP and not believe God ordains some to hell and some to heaven? It's right there in your acronym.

Predestination simplified: He loves me, He loves me not! The fickle finger of Fate will reside with the last petal of the TULIP!

 

[Candidus]

False;
from a previous thread;
God foreknows what will be because He has decreed what shall be . It is therefore a reversing of the order of Scripture, a putting of the cart before the horse, to affirm that God elects because He foreknows people. The truth is, He “foreknows” because He has elected . This removes the ground or cause of election from outside the creature, and places it in God’s own sovereign will. God purposed in Himself to elect a certain people, not because of anything good in them or from them, either actual or foreseen, but solely out of His own mere pleasure. As to why He chose the ones He did, we do not know, and can only say, “Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.” The plain truth of Romans 8:29 is that God, before the foundation of the world, singled out certain sinners and appointed them unto salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13). This is clear from the concluding words of the verse: “Predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son,” etc. God did not predestinate those whom He foreknew were “conformed,” but, on the contrary, those whom He “foreknew” (i.e., loved and elected) He predestinated to be conformed. Their conformity to Christ is not the cause, but the effect of God’s foreknowledge and predestination.

God did not elect any sinner because He foresaw that he would believe, for the simple but sufficient reason that no sinner ever does believe until God gives him faith; just as no man sees until God gives him sight. Sight is God’s gift, seeing is the consequence of my using His gift. So faith is God’s gift ( Ephesians 1:8,9), believing is the consequence of my using His gift. If it were true that God had elected certain ones to be saved because in due time they would believe, then that would make believing a meritorious act, and in that event the saved sinner would have ground for “boasting,” which Scripture emphatically denies: Ephesians 2:9.

All those babies burning and being tortured in Hell as we speak!

 

[Truther]

This verse is not a response to biblical foreknowledge.

Sure it is. It clearly says their names were not written in the book of life before the world began. God knew it.

 

[Truther]

All those babies burning and being tortured in Hell as we speak!

Babies are saved.

 

[farouk]

It is always refreshing when someone that rejects Reformed Theology decides to explain what it teaches.

No one I know that believes TULIP, believes what you have refuted in the OP. So we have the thorough public thrashing of yet another STRAWMAN, while all serious discussion of what Reformed Theology teaches and how that teaching aligns with scripture remains pushed into the closet for another day.

@atpollard
I'm not Reformed (I struggle with projecting logical structures onto Scripture; at least, this is what it seems to me that a lot of the Reformed constituency does). However, I do indeed think there is plenty of Scripture to support each of the propositions referred to by the acrostic T-U-L-I-P.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Sure it is. It clearly says their names were not written in the book of life before the world began. God knew it.

God is omniscient meaning he knows everything.Acts 15:18

 

[Candidus]

Babies are saved.

It is the Fatalist that must prove how God is not a "Respecter of persons" if all infants are saved. the argument is that God is no Respecter of persons, and does not factor in faith, obedience, or any other factor in His Elective "decree."

Paul said, "There is no respect of persons with God." Rom. 2:11. Again: "He that doeth wrong, shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." Col. 3:25. Once more: "And ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him." Eph. 6:9.: "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons." Acts 10:34. The Fatalist cannot possibly know who is elect, to include children, or even themselves, since according to the theory, those who are elected are chosen "without any foresight of faith or good works or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature," which excludes any consideration that they are children, and makes the destiny of each individual a mystery known only to God before all eternity.

Even Calvin admitted that babies were in Hell! He called it a "Horrible Decree!"

 

[Candidus]

 

[Truther]

It is the Fatalist that must prove how God is not a "Respecter of persons" if all infants are saved. the argument is that God is no Respecter of persons, and does not factor in faith, obedience, or any other factor in His Elective "decree."

Paul said, "There is no respect of persons with God." Rom. 2:11. Again: "He that doeth wrong, shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." Col. 3:25. Once more: "And ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him." Eph. 6:9.: "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons." Acts 10:34. The Fatalist cannot possibly know who is elect, to include children, or even themselves, since according to the theory, those who are elected are chosen "without any foresight of faith or good works or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature," which excludes any consideration that they are children, and makes the destiny of each individual a mystery known only to God before all eternity.

Even Calvin admitted that babies were in Hell! He called it a "Horrible Decree!"

Calvin is silly. Babies are not in hell. Jesus segregated them from the adults..."for of such is the kingdom of heaven".


But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Truther]

All those babies burning and being tortured in Hell as we speak!

LOL

 

[atpollard]

[Romans 9:8-24 NASB] 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived [twins] by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

The lord has mercy and the lord hardens ... as Creator, that is His right. (And I trust Him to do the right thing.)