Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yea, my concern that I will find such low-level maturity that I can't even quote Scriptures without being vilified. I feel confident there's still a good number here who are not swayed by that "kill spirit?"
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Yea, my concern that I will find such low-level maturity that I can't even quote Scriptures without being vilified. I feel confident there's still a good number here who are not swayed by that "kill spirit?"
And many use this verse to defend the pre-destination doctrine. When Jesus says many are called, but few are chosen. I believe he speaks about the whole world using that word "many".
How are we chosen? John 3:16 says it, John 5:24 says it, Romans 10:9-10 says it.
We are given that choice to join the wedding feast, but not everyone accepts that invitation, it's an invitation given to every human being on planet earth.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
We should stop worrying about whether people are predestined to be lost or not. I agree that God did not predestine people to be lost. But He did make them with the possibility that man could produce that effect--lost children. Man is the agent of this consequence--God just left open the door for man to do this, or not.
Our concern should be to collect as many as will gather to Christ, who love God's word, who love the Spirit of God, who love one another. Our destiny is in the city of God. Those who choose to live outside have done so despite our best efforts to warn them. That's all we can do.
I think the Bible means "foreknow" as a synonym for "predestine".
God foreknows who will be in heaven or hell, not pre determines this.
God transcends time, thus He cannot help but see the future of all things that exist.
This is why the book of Rev says folks that take the mark had not their names in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
God already saw me type this post before He created the world...God is smart.
Ive not said anything about knowing if a person is saved or not.
Are you hallucinating?
Also, this is a forum, Randy.
What we do here, because we are not actually together in person, is evaluate each other's belief system, as its stated it in Text.
I can tell is someone is saved, but, i dont call people out about this on a Forum, as the TOS here does not allow it.
Everyone who is born, has the option to "all that call on Jesus shall be saved", or not.
This offer is in effect till they die.
If they die having rejected CHRIST, then Jesus said they "die in their sin", and they will meet God as Judge and not as Father and they will be found in Hell, then later, the Lake of Fire.
Many are called. = John 3:16
Few are chosen = Believe in Christ and be born again.
Faith chooses.
God saves.
"predesinted according to FORE-KNOWLEDGE".
This means everyone's eternal destiny, is already KNOWN by God, even before they are born.
"fore-knowledge"- to KNOW everything BEFORE it happens".
Remember when Jesus told His permanent disciples to not tell people ?
When He tells us not to tell people, we are supposed to not tell people.
When He tells us to tell people, we are supposed to tell people.
Each, Always, as He Says....... right ?
So ?
Many on the forum use different verses to defend any doctrine from 'lordship salvation' (or whatever it is called), to eternal security doctrine ....
Usually also other doctrines or teachings or dogmas or practices or thoughts are associated with the 'doctrines', instead of listening to Jesus.
my response (this is what I had said previously, which you obviously ignored):
See Matthew 7:21-23.
If it is important, if it is on topic, if it applies somehow, print out the text.
Perfectly stated. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
God does not FORCE anyone to become a part of His family, but He does OFFER His family membership to everyone who by faith, would Join.
"predestined elect", teaches that you have no freewill, or that your freewill is limited and does not allow you to choose to belong to God's family.
"Predestined elect" denies that God is Love, and reduces God to a cosmic psychotic monster who chooses to burn some people and chooses to not burn others.
Imagine a psycho deity who looks at your family that has 8 members in it, and He chooses 4 of them to burn in the lake of fire, having NO option to be saved.
Imagine standing in the presence of a "Loving God" who burned half your family and not you.. Or burned you, but not your sister.. or burned your Mother but not your Dad.
This predestined elect theology deeply insults God, completely denies The Cross, and ruins people's MINDs.
No; because for the most part I try to strike a balance between Proverbs 12:23 and Proverbs 15:7 in my posts.
You know, you can scroll your mouse over the reference and the verse will come up on your screen.
But I also am being obedient to Matthew 7:6 by concealing the scriptures in question while at the same time dispersing them.
The reality is that God exists outside of time; and that therefore He sees ahead of time who will come to Him and then exerts every bit of effort to redeem them; and does not waste time on the unredeemed (non-elect). Because it is written, that "Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:8a). So then, if God loves someone, He will not fail to bring them into the kingdom.
See Hosea 9:15.
No, as I have repeatedly posted to others, the verses do not render on my screen, and likewise on many other's cell phones.
When you post a reference book , chapter and verse, without the text, it is often not seen. If it is important, posting the text is needed, and wise.
As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what you mean, or think, or do. It is not at all clear, as it does not come through unless you provide the text.
Even when the text is provided on forums, there is a further difficulty with humans - they most often mis-interpret what they read and post, and because their tradition is not in truth, but they trust it, they will not keep seeking the truth, lest they lose 'favor' or 'approval' of others in error with them.
If your computer or phone doesn't contain the Bible program so that you can scroll on the reference and get the verse, it may take for you a little bit more work. If you are really interested in what is being said, you can look up the verse in your own Bible.
In this way, I sift out those who really want to be taught from those who are only interested in arguing.
If you were sharing the truth, and if it looked like it, that would be one thing.
When your posts are supporting anything from tradition that is relatively harmless, to tradition that is heresy, it is not worth looking up any references you post. If you post the text (of Scripture) that is the basis for your faith, that is good and right so to do.
Then if you are true and right, it is seen.
If someone is only out to argue...and if, in casting my pearls before them, they would only trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend me...it is wiser for me to conceal the information so that I am not casting my pearls before swine....while at the same time dispersing information by referencing the scripture that supports my pov.
In this way if someone really wants to learn from me, they can scroll over the reference and see the verse or else look it up in their own Bible; but if they are not there to learn but to argue, they will have to put more work into it to be able to argue.
I believe in concealing knowledge (Proverbs 12:23) while also dispersing it (Proverbs 15:7)...this is my method for the most part.
If a verse in question does not say on the Bible program what I am trying to say (because the Bible program is not the kjv), then I will often give the whole quote out of the kjv so that there is no confusion over the fact that I am teaching primarily out of the kjv and there may be differences between the kjv and the Bible software attached to this site. But where the Bible software gives the same message as the kjv, I allow the person to scroll over the reference with their mouse if they are really interested in learning from me.
Your presumption is overwhelming.
Rather see as written in God's Word:
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord ...
[Search domain biblehub.com/1_peter/3-15.htm] 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that you have. But respond with gentleness and respect,
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Christian Standard Bible but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
When you give an idea, without a Scriptural reason or support, there is no known Scriptural support to accept it nor to , as if, study it , nor to learn it.
Your pearls appear as dross, without any Scripture to support them.
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