Pre-Trib Rapture is Dead!!!

[Nancy]

But if the church won't go through the Great Tribulation, then this does not refer to the church.

I happen to believe that the Church will indeed go through the Tribulation. We are to trust God through out for food, shelter and safety. I believe many will be saved during this time. We must always be built up in the faith! ♥

 

[farouk]

I happen to believe that the Church will indeed go through the Tribulation. We are to trust God through out for food, shelter and safety. I believe many will be saved during this time. We must always be built up in the faith! ♥

I would see the tribulation period of John 16 and the great tribulation - a unique event in the context of Matthew 24 - as rather distinct.

 

[Taken]

Good post, I do tend to agree with you @101G . I was a rapture (pre-trib) for many, many years. But as I grew in The Lord, many of my views (mostly what I was taught by men) I now believe differently, through prayer and my own reading with guidance from the Holy Spirit- That Jesus will return one time, and that is post-Trib. Christians NEED to be built up in the faith and I fear for many of them if they buy the pre-trib rapture hook line and sinker because, their faith will not be strong. And those who are unbelievers who have listened to pre-tribbers forever will say "well, I guess their God is not real since He did NOT come back" will take the mark. Dangerous doctrine IMHO.

Hi Nancy,

Could you share your view regarding the purpose of Why the Saved would be left ON Earth during the Tribulation?

Thanks,
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

I would see the tribulation period of John 16 and the great tribulation - a unique event in the context of Matthew 24 - as rather distinct.

John 16:16
16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be caused to stumble." <---Built up for good reason! Many horrible things will happen before Jesus comes back:
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.
3 And these things will they do, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I spoken unto you, that when their hour is come, ye may remember them, how that I told you. And these things I said not unto you from the beginning, because I was with you. <---- more warnings. Now, there are the 'spensationalists" lol...not quite sure which one I am!
many believe the things mentioned in the bible concerning the trib. or the "great" trib. have already happened during the Apostles time..."This generation shall not pass until all these things happen..." This stuff goes deep my brother and I am by no means a scholar so, I am where God has me now in what I believe and there are definitly other subjects that I can never say I "know for sure" and, I do not think anybody can know the whole truth in every area while in this body. Must go now...will check back later!!!! ♥

 

[farouk]

John 16:16
16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be caused to stumble." <---Built up for good reason! Many horrible things will happen before Jesus comes back:
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.
3 And these things will they do, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I spoken unto you, that when their hour is come, ye may remember them, how that I told you. And these things I said not unto you from the beginning, because I was with you. <---- more warnings. Now, there are the 'spensationalists" lol...not quite sure which one I am!
many believe the things mentioned in the bible concerning the trib. or the "great" trib. have already happened during the Apostles time..."This generation shall not pass until all these things happen..." This stuff goes deep my brother and I am by no means a scholar so, I am where God has me now in what I believe and there are definitly other subjects that I can never say I "know for sure" and, I do not think anybody can know the whole truth in every area while in this body. Must go now...will check back later!!!! ♥

...the church is not in synagogues: there is a strong Jewish element to the idea of tribulation saints.

 

[Heart2Soul]

On a personal note....I have gone through numerous trials and "tribulations"....and didn't get raptured before they happened...…

 

[farouk]

On a personal note....I have gone through numerous trials and "tribulations"....and didn't get raptured before they happened...…

...because the rapture principle ("In the world ye shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer: I have overcome the world") and the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24) are rather distinct.

 

[Heart2Soul]

...because the rapture principle ("In the world ye shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer: I have overcome the world") and the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24) are rather distinct.

I was being humorous…….lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

I was being humorous…….lol.

don't worry, i doubt the real nature of the Great Tribulation will be revealed herenow anyway lol!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. -Matthew 24:23–28

You know what? I was looking at this again, as my spirit wasn't completely quiet about my conclusion just yet. And I think I finally have the answer to what I think they were asking by "Where Lord?" in Luke 17:37.

Just created a thread for it if you'd like to comment.
Where The Body Is The Vultures Will Gather

 

[101G]

Good post, I do tend to agree with you @101G . I was a rapture (pre-trib) for many, many years. But as I grew in The Lord, many of my views (mostly what I was taught by men) I now believe differently, through prayer and my own reading with guidance from the Holy Spirit- That Jesus will return one time, and that is post-Trib. Christians NEED to be built up in the faith and I fear for many of them if they buy the pre-trib rapture hook line and sinker because, their faith will not be strong. And those who are unbelievers who have listened to pre-tribbers forever will say "well, I guess their God is not real since He did NOT come back" will take the mark. Dangerous doctrine IMHO.

Hi Nancy, we all have been taught in error, but thanks be to God for opening our real eyes, our spirituals eyes, we give him the glory.

I have learned one thing, "TRUST GOD WORD", he never fails.

but as you said, reading the bible with the Holy Spirit makes all the difference in the world.

With all the confusion in the world and …. in some churches, not all, I decided to find out for myself what is the rapture. The Lord Jesus took me to Revelation chapter 20 concerning the two resurrections, and from there we worked our way backward and forward.

The Biggest hang up I had was on timing between the two resurrection, that 1,000 years had me stomped for a while until I understood his Parousia, and how God keep time.

The Lord’s Parousia as with earthly kings is his coming, his stay, and his leaving. But the Lord Jesus is not leaving, (smile). But the thousand years still got me. Until the Lord reminded me of how he keep time. Scripture, 2Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Well that open my eyes, and eliminated the 1,000 years of his stay between the two resurrections.

See, the Lord Jesus have been gone since his resurrection only 2 days, and a few minuets by God count. As the apostle Peter said, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing”, that one thing is a day to God as a thousand thousand years to us.

When I got over that hurtle, the rest was easy to put in place. The bible always give us information in one place which match up with the truth in another place, hence why the scriptures say, “Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isa 28:9 & 10

See, we must get some information Matthews, 1 Corinthian, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelations, and even the book of Job, just to name a few.

The answers are all there in the bible but we must seek the truth out. Just as the Lord said, John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And the scriptures are Old and New.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

On a personal note....I have gone through numerous trials and "tribulations"....and didn't get raptured before they happened...…

It is possible...You were raptured out of tribulation.

Jude 1:22-23
[22] And of some have compassion, making a difference: [23] And others save with fear, pulling(snatching) them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

To “snatch” one out of the fire. We are no longer appointed to God’s wrath but have ‘received’ mercy....so it could be said we(His body) have already been “seized, snatched, caught up” out of the fire.

Zechariah 3:2
[2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

See ‘snatching’
Jude 1:23 Interlinear: and some in fear save ye, out of the fire snatching, hating even the coat from the flesh spotted.

Harpazontes: To seize, catch up, or snatch away(seizing bounty, taking a spoil, a prize)
Strong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

 

[friend of]

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn

But if the church remains, why would the bride of Christ mourn instead of rejoice that Christ had returned? It seems to me saying that Christians aren't around.

 

[101G]

I happen to believe that the Church will indeed go through the Tribulation. We are to trust God through out for food, shelter and safety. I believe many will be saved during this time. We must always be built up in the faith! ♥

TRUE,
Ps 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Ps 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. (you're RIGHT on point here).
Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

 

[Nancy]

But if the church remains, why would the bride of Christ mourn instead of rejoice that Christ had returned? It seems to me saying that Christians aren't around.

"...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Christians will be very happy to see Christ coming on the clouds but, the tribes of the earth, which could mean Israel, land, or very large groups of people...and since we know that there will be MANY who take the wide road and FEW who take the narrow...it is the unsaved who mourn as they will see the Truth unfolding before their eyes.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy, we all have been taught in error, but thanks be to God for opening our real eyes, our spirituals eyes, we give him the glory.

I have learned one thing, "TRUST GOD WORD", he never fails.

but as you said, reading the bible with the Holy Spirit makes all the difference in the world.

With all the confusion in the world and …. in some churches, not all, I decided to find out for myself what is the rapture. The Lord Jesus took me to Revelation chapter 20 concerning the two resurrections, and from there we worked our way backward and forward.

The Biggest hang up I had was on timing between the two resurrection, that 1,000 years had me stomped for a while until I understood his Parousia, and how God keep time.

The Lord’s Parousia as with earthly kings is his coming, his stay, and his leaving. But the Lord Jesus is not leaving, (smile). But the thousand years still got me. Until the Lord reminded me of how he keep time. Scripture, 2Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Well that open my eyes, and eliminated the 1,000 years of his stay between the two resurrections.

See, the Lord Jesus have been gone since his resurrection only 2 days, and a few minuets by God count. As the apostle Peter said, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing”, that one thing is a day to God as a thousand thousand years to us.

When I got over that hurtle, the rest was easy to put in place. The bible always give us information in one place which match up with the truth in another place, hence why the scriptures say, “Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isa 28:9 & 10

See, we must get some information Matthews, 1 Corinthian, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelations, and even the book of Job, just to name a few.

The answers are all there in the bible but we must seek the truth out. Just as the Lord said, John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And the scriptures are Old and New.

"I have learned one thing, "TRUST GOD WORD", he never fails.

but as you said, reading the bible with the Holy Spirit makes all the difference in the world." Yes is sure does.
Without independent reading, along with the Holy Spirits guidance, I get no peace with a certain subject I'm unsure of. And, yes, God's timeline is not ours, lol...not by a long shot! And yes, scripture interprets scripture. He is so good ♥

 

[Heart2Soul]

It is possible...You were raptured out of tribulation.

Jude 1:22-23
[22] And of some have compassion, making a difference: [23] And others save with fear, pulling(snatching) them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

To “snatch” one out of the fire. We are no longer appointed to God’s wrath but have ‘received’ mercy....so it could be said we(His body) have already been “seized, snatched, caught up” out of the fire.

Zechariah 3:2
[2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

See ‘snatching’
Jude 1:23 Interlinear: and some in fear save ye, out of the fire snatching, hating even the coat from the flesh spotted.

Harpazontes: To seize, catch up, or snatch away(seizing bounty, taking a spoil, a prize)
Strong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

Very good points!

 

[101G]

"I have learned one thing, "TRUST GOD WORD", he never fails.

but as you said, reading the bible with the Holy Spirit makes all the difference in the world." Yes is sure does.
Without independent reading, along with the Holy Spirits guidance, I get no peace with a certain subject I'm unsure of. And, yes, God's timeline is not ours, lol...not by a long shot! And yes, scripture interprets scripture. He is so good ♥

you are correct, stay with the Lord. and keep this in mind also. there is nothing wrong in listening to a man or woman, but be like the them in Berea,
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

check out what they say by the scriptures, for GREATER is he in you, that he in the world.

be blessed. I encourage you greatly.

 

[Nancy]

you are correct, stay with the Lord. and keep this in mind also. there is nothing wrong in listening to a man or woman, but be like the them in Berea,
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

check out what they say by the scriptures, for GREATER is he in you, that he in the world.

be blessed. I encourage you greatly.

Ahaha...I just wrote almost the same thing about the Bareans in another post

 

[Enoch111]

On a personal note....I have gone through numerous trials and "tribulations"....and didn't get raptured before they happened...

There are too many Christians who cannot clearly distinguish between the trials, tribulations, and testings of Christians, and the Tribulation period, which is something else altogether -- a unique world event, and primarily the judgment and persecution of the Jews.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: [THE JEWS] and there shall be a time of trouble*, [THE TRIBULATION] such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: [TOTALLY UNIQUE] and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

JEREMIAH 30
4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. [PLEASE NOTE]
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: [TOTALLY UNIQUE] it is even the time of Jacob's [THE JEWS] trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.