Predestination VS Free Will

[Behold]

A righteous person defers to those who are in authority over him.

The only righteousness is God's and this is the "imputed righteousness"..

So, without it, a person is just religious and lost.

And the final authority for a Christian, is the HOLY Scriptures........specifically Paul's Doctrine... and the Holy Spirit who reveals it.

Peter in 2 Peter..... understood this 2000 yrs ago.
Hell bound Heretics never will.

At the present time, the religious system has got a hold on most believers.

You are unable to define what you mean by "religious system"....so you just keep posting "religious system".

Its the same with your "doing righteousness" nonsense Theology.
You cant even explain it ......or give examples of it.......so you just keep posting "doing righteousness" and some obscure OT verse.... like a drunken parrot keeps saying....>"Kwaka, Kwaka... Polly want a Kwaka".. @Episkopos

So, if you ever do try to post those 2 phrases as a definition, and see it......then i look forward to it., because whatever you concoct next as your bizarre concept, will have nothing to do with The Cross, or NT Doctrine, or God's Righteouenss, or Salvation, or anything that Paul teaches...tho you'll try to frame your junk theology with the name 'Paul" in your post somewhere.
As that is your most recent "false doctrine" Trademark.

Now, go and get all your "cut and paste" responses, and dig out all those man-made commentaries and come back and do what you always do here.

 

[Episkopos]

Now that i brought "Paul" to this forum, you've decided to besmurch Paul by trying to associate his NAME with your nonsense theology, and is both deceptive and pathetic.

You are an amazing religious pretender and spiritual fakir, according to your Videos, Threads, and posts.

What you claim as being from Paul as your religious master is actually Luther's misrepresentation of Paul...all based on self-interest and NO connection whatsoever to the kingdom realm experience of a spiritual walk IN Christ.

 

[Behold]

What you claim as being from Paul as your religious master is actually Luther's misrepresentation of Paul..

i quote Paul
I ONLY teach Paul's Doctine....... (He mentions it in 1 Tim 4).

Now, Luther, understood "justification by faith"........and that is of course Paul's Theology.

Luther understood that......>>"God hath made JESUS be SIN for us"...... and He understood that every Christian, has received "Christ's Righteousness".........= "God's Gift of Righteousess".. (Imputed).

So, this is why Luther correctly stated........"Jesus became my sin, and I became His Righteousness".

Paul explains it like this..... = Every Christian has become .. "The Righteousness OF GOD.....in Christ'.

See that "Righteousness = OF GOD"?

That is "God's imputed Righteousnes", that is the "Gift of Righteousness". @Episkopos

Welcome to : Salvation.

Its Forgiveness of sin, and the "imputed righteousness of God"......given as a "GIFT".

 

[Behold]

.all based on self-interest and NO connection whatsoever to the kingdom realm experience of a spiritual walk IN Christ.

A sinner coming to Jesus, who understands they are unforgiven and lost.... is certainly engaged in "self interest".. as its in everyone's self interest to receive from God, .. Justifcation, Forgiveness, Redemption, and the New Birth "in Christ".

Also, every born again Christian has regained spiritual union with God, as "born again", and that is The "Spiritual Walk"... entered into... .. and from there, they are to learn "sound doctrine" that comes from Paul, and spiritual enlightenment that comes from the Holy Spirit's revelations that are based on "sound doctrine" that comes from Paul.

Now, Paul told all Christians to "be a follower of Me, as I follow Christ"....but that is not Paul trying to become anyone's "master"....
He is only performing His service to God's redeemed, as He is called to be The finest example of a Christian and to give the correct "church doctrine" to the Body of Christ.
So, when we emulate him.......we are doing this by learning His doctrine, and understanding his walk with The Lord that is our example, regarding ministry, discipleship, and mastery of the knowledge of God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Predestination and clairvoyance is a power of God not a matter of all of reality.
Free-will is the rule.

 

[rwb]

I don't see a statement from God that humans no longer are created in His image, but maybe you know.

Every human is made in the same image and likeness as Seth through Adam since the fall.

Genesis 5:3 (KJV) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Job 14:4 (KJV) Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

John 3:6 (KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

After the fall Adam & Eve became spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins." The nature of God (Spirit) they were created with, in the likeness and image of God, after the fall became like the nature of the serpent whom they listened to. God had warned them that in the day they ate of the forbidden tree they would surely die. They did not die physically but their spirit no longer alive through the Spirit of God breathed into them at creation became natural breath that every living breathing creature upon the earth is made physically alive through. The Spirit of God departed from them, and that's why man must be born again of the Spirit of Christ to be once again the likeness and image of God through Christ.

Ephesians 2:1-7 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

 

[marks]

tetagmenoi - To arrange, to appoint, to order, to ordain

No practical difference from predestination, IMO.

Different words, different meanings, but it seems to work better for you to make them the same.

The verse literally says "those he predestined... he also justified". You stated that justification is not a part of predestination.

Romans 8:29-30 KJV
29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I find it pretty clear. These are predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son. And there are other things He does for these same people, but let's not be sloppy in our interpretation, OK?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Predestination is about one's final destination.

Predestination, if you are talking about the Koine Greek word prohoridzo, pro - ahead of, horidzo, limit, boundry, "horizon". To set a limit in advance. And it applies however the context uses it.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

You mean what gives men a proper sense of reality? Well, not religious systems or the dogmas that come out of those. They create ideological illusions.

Simplicity...a turning FROM pride. A brush with something much greater than oneself...whether human or divine.

"A proper sense of reality" doesn't come from the natural man, who is blind to the truth. All the glory belongs to God......humility is a fruit of the spirit, it is not speaking of a manufactured self-righteous "voluntary humility".

 

[Lizbeth]

Paul clarifies the issue of the difference between the part of us that is made in God's image (inner man) and the part of us that is fallen in nature (outer man or "old man")

Now some people confuse the inner man with the "New Man" who is to be worn outwardly as clothing OVER the inner man as a replacement for no longer having a sinful covering in the outer man. The New Man is Christ..

But we all fell from God's image didn't we. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The hidden man of the heart/spirit.........is deceitfully wicked. And we are told we are to rid ourselves of all filthiness of both flesh and spirit/heart. It is written that the evil man out of the evil treasures of his heart brings forth evil. Lot's of scriptures speak in that vein. That is why we needed the new man to be created after the image of He who created it.

 

[Episkopos]

"A proper sense of reality" doesn't come from the natural man, who is blind to the truth. All the glory belongs to God......humility is a fruit of the spirit, it is not speaking of a manufactured self-righteous "voluntary humility".

God gives grace to the humble...and not...God gives humility to the graceful. You are seeing things according to the natural man...who is blind to the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

But we all fell from God's image didn't we. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The hidden man of the heart/spirit.........is deceitfully wicked. And we are told we are to rid ourselves of all filthiness of both flesh and spirit/heart. It is written that the evil man out of the evil treasures of his heart brings forth evil. Lot's of scriptures speak in that vein. That is why we needed the new man to be created after the image of He who created it.

The New Man is made in the image of Christ that real saints are being conformed into...like being hammered into a mold. It is an outward/inward anointing. Put ON the New Man....put ON Christ. Put on His perfection and holiness.

 

[Lizbeth]

God gives grace to the humble...and not...God gives humility to the graceful. You are seeing things according to the natural man...who is blind to the truth.

I believe it is speaking on one level to the Jew first and on another level to the Gentile (mostly Gentile church) who have the Spirit of Christ in us.

 

[Lizbeth]

The New Man is made in the image of Christ that real saints are being conformed into...like being hammered into a mold. It is an outward/inward anointing. Put ON the New Man....put ON Christ. Put on His perfection and holiness.

Do you believe the inner man of the heart in unregenerate believers is still in the image of God? There is a reason why we needed the Lord to give us a new heart, a new man, which is made in His image.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you believe the inner man of the heart in unregenerate believers is still in the image of God?

Of course. There is no "serpent seed" people whereby the devil created a different race. We are all human...all souls are God's. He says...ALL SOULS are mine. You might need a few years or so to wrap your head around that.

There is a reason why we needed the Lord to give us a new heart, a new man, which is made in His image.

Such confusion. Having accepted a god of your own creation...how different from the God who created you.

The idea of a new man coming from a new heart is good....but not to be confused with putting on The New Man...

Put your thinking cap on for a moment. Why would Paul tell people who are already regenerated to "put on" the New Man?

Are you going to pull off another Jew/Gentile split? Or invent a new diversion?

 

[rwb]

Of course. There is no "serpent seed" people whereby the devil created a different race. We are all human...all souls are God's. He says...ALL SOULS are mine. You might need a few years or so to wrap your head around that.

Such confusion. Having accepted a god of your own creation...how different from the God who created you.

The idea of a new man coming from a new heart is good....but not to be confused with putting on The New Man...

Put your thinking cap on for a moment. Why would Paul tell people who are already regenerated to "put on the New Man?

Are you going to pull off another Jew/Gentile split? Or invent a new diversion?

What did God mean when He told the serpent there would be enmity between "thy seed" and "her seed", if there is no seed of the serpent?

Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

When God created A&E He created them in His likeness and image by breathing His breath (Holy Spirit) into them. What we find after they sinned against God, heeding the voice of the serpent, we see another image and likeness born through A&E

Genesis 5:3 (KJV) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Isn't it because the Spirit of God creating mankind in God's likeness and image departed from them when they sinned and man became natural because the immortal life-giving Spirit was no longer present in them to give them everlasting life?

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

This explains why mankind must be born again through the Holy Spirit to have eternal life. This is how/when we become the new man with a new heart and new Spirit.

 

[rwb]

Put your thinking cap on for a moment. Why would Paul tell people who are already regenerated to "put on the New Man?

Just because man has been regenerated through the Holy Spirit in them, does not do away with the natural spirit in man giving them physical life. This is why the saints of God are warned to walk by the Spirit and not to fulfill the desires of the flesh. The spiritual battle children of God wage every single day is the one between our natural man of flesh & blood spirit, and our supernatural eternal Spirit. When we walk in the Spirit of God, we do not sin!

 

[Episkopos]

What did God mean when He told the serpent there would be enmity between "thy seed" and "her seed", if there is no seed of the serpent?

Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus did not come to crush people. The devil's seed is not the same as him creating people. All souls are God's. You have yet to add that into the equation....so you are taking a wrong and polarized view...as MOST people will do...rather than finding the correct balance.

The devil's seed is a PART of a person....the outer man...the sinful husk that covers and enslaves the inner man...the part that is God's seed...created in God's image. The head and heel bruising regards Christ.... but also the inner struggle of the soul that is God's and must be purged or purified from all sin. There is suffering involved to be rid of the outer man. It is through much tribulation we enter into the kingdom life.

The cross of Christ liberates the inner man from the power of sin that affects the outer man.

When God created A&E He created them in His likeness and image by breathing His breath (Holy Spirit) into them. What we find after they sinned against God, heeding the voice of the serpent, we see another image and likeness born through A&E

Genesis 5:3 (KJV) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Another image as a COVERING...a husk of sinful motivation based on rebellion and self-determination. Pride.

In the gospel we see a new covering anointing....that of Christ. Put on Christ. We can only be conformed to the image of what covers us...like a mold.

Isn't it because the Spirit of God creating mankind in God's likeness and image departed from them when they sinned and man became natural because the immortal life-giving Spirit was no longer present in them to give them everlasting life?

But God created the VESSEL...not just the covering. All men are created in God's image. But not all are being conformed to Christ.

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

This explains why mankind must be born again through the Holy Spirit to have eternal life. This is how/when we become the new man with a new heart and new Spirit.

Actually Saul was made "a new man"...or "another man". Being born again like Saul was is a calling into a sample of grace, and most will fail the grace of God. God sorts people out by choosing only a few among the many He has called into His presence. Entering the kingdom realm requires a full surrender and costs us everything. Buy the truth and sell it not.

 

[Episkopos]

Just because man has been regenerated through the Holy Spirit in them, does not do away with the natural spirit in man giving them physical life. This is why the saints of God are warned to walk by the Spirit and not to fulfill the desires of the flesh. The spiritual battle children of God wage every single day is the one between our natural man of flesh & blood spirit, and our supernatural eternal Spirit. When we walk in the Spirit of God, we do not sin!

Yes and agreed. However, the only spiritual battle of the saint is external to himself. Those who struggle with sin are still MIXED. The cross of Christ un-mixes people into a pure and holy walk by the keeping power of God, by crucifying the outer man sin nature that comes from the devil's rebellion...and inherited as a carnal covering among those who are unbroken.

Being born again is not understood in our time. People see it as an end rather than a first step in a very hard judgment on people who have received a sample or talent..and who are EXPECTED to bear fruit with it. Most will fail due to a lack of knowledge of God's ways...they will be fooled by various winds of doctrines.

Why is only the one who received one talent rejected? Why are those who have received more than one talent accepted and rewarded? These one-timers (initial salvation only) never learn to progress beyond an initial grace...thinking that it is something to cherish and preserve without producing anything eternal. ....without seeking God for the FULL measure of grace and BUYING into kingdom life.

 

[JLB]

Hyper-Calvinism is one of the most theologically insane teachings ever created by demon controlled religious fanatics.

Amen