PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[rebuilder 454]

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. The 70th week, which has only 3.5 years remaining is not over until after the Day of Atonement.



The great tribulation does not last 7 years. God does not turn His attention to the Jew until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Noah loads the animals on the first day of 7 days. And we don't know the day that the ark door is shut by God.

Right


69 weeks transpire until the coming of Messiah. Messiah is cut off 3.5 years after He comes as Messiah............Behold the Lamb of God. He is not cutoff the day He comes. He is cut off 3.5 years later at His crucifixion.

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

3.5 years. Time, times and half a time.


1 week in the future............Right.

When does the week begin? It begins when a 7-year covenant with many is made such as the 7 year covenant with many that was made by the UN in September of 2023. If the Antichrist confirms this covenant when He is revealed, we will know it is the covenant of Daneil 12. However, the Church will not be here when the Antichrist is revealed. Watch.


That's not what Jesus said. He said there is a great multitude which no man could number. The great multitude are the two folds that are joined into one-fold at the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place at the 6th seal.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Of this great multitude, some of them come out of the great tribulation as martyrs and some of them are raptured alive when the great tribulation is cut short. If the great tribulation was not cut short, there would be no flesh raptured alive unto salvation. All believers would be killed.

Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So not all of the great multitude are martyrs, and not all the great multitude come out of great tribulation.


No sir. This is the end of the great tribulation..............immediately after the tribulation. When is immediately after the tribulation........the 6th seal. Those that come out of great tribulation are the dead and alive that are raptured at the 6th seal. That's why we see them in Revelation 7 as part of the great multitude.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


There is one year of wrath in the final week, which is the 7th seal. It contains the trumpets and vials of God wrath. Both folds, Church and 12 tribes that are raptured will be in heaven for the marriage supper for the one-year wrath of God.


Negative. The 7 years begins when the 7 year covenant with many is made. But the Church is not raptured before the 7 years begin. It is raptured sometime after the week begins and sometime before the AOD is set up. When the AOD is set up there are 3.5 years remaining which is the remainder of the 7th week of Daniel. Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Great multitude in heaven before the 7th seal is opened.

I can not reconcile your timeline.
Look at what you are saying.
1) The AC has no interest in the mark until AFTER the AOD.
2) The innumerable number are now a mixture of martyrs and others ( that needed their robes washed and came out of the trib)
3) it Does not say that they came out of "the" great tribulation, so nobody can make that claim.

The palm branches that the innumerable number are waving points to the Feast of Tabernacles where they waved Palm branches for 7 days.
That indicates that the innumerable number are martyred right away and they are in heaven for the 7 year tribulation.

Ok..where is this 1yr timeline of wrath that you are believing ?
Who else has it? ??
Show me a link.
Where is the 3.5 yrs , the covenant made, the revealing and power of the ac, and the 1 yr wrath timeline of anyone, other than yourself?
Link please.

I have never in over 45 years of studying different positions seen the timeline you are expressing.

 

[The Light]

I can not reconcile your timeline.
Look at what you are saying.
1) The AC has no interest in the mark until AFTER the AOD.

Show me where I said this. This would not be correct. The Antichrist will be revealed right AFTER the rapture of the Church. And the rapture of the Church occurs AFTER the final week has begun. That is when the 7 seals are opened, and he goes forth conquering and to conquer.

2) The innumerable number are now a mixture of martyrs and others ( that needed their robes washed and came out of the trib)

The innumerable number are a mixture of martyrs, the dead in Christ that are not martyrs, the alive church that was caught up, the dead Jews of the 2nd harvest that are martyrs and not martyrs and the alive Jews that are caught up when the tribulation is cut short.

Two folds become one fold.

3) it Does not say that they came out of "the" great tribulation, so nobody can make that claim.

I can make that claim. The tribulation of the those days is the great tribulation that begins when the AOD is set up and ends at the harvest at the 6th seal. Those raptured that came out of great tribulation, came out of "The" great tribulation.

The palm branches that the innumerable number are waving points to the Feast of Tabernacles where they waved Palm branches for 7 days.
That indicates that the innumerable number are martyred right away and they are in heaven for the 7 year tribulation.

The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th SEAL.

The great multitude is a combination of the pretribulation rapture of the Church (dead in Christ and alive that remained) and the rapture of the dead and alive Jews of the second harvest which is after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.

Ok..where is this 1yr timeline of wrath that you are believing ?

Ezekiel 4 uses a day as a year. The day of vengeance is a year of recompenses. The day of vengeance is the year of my redeemed.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

In Revelation 14 we see the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth as first fruits. Those that are redeemed from the earth go to heaven. When the harvest of Revelation 14 occurs........at the 6th seal.......all the redeemed from the earth (Church and Jews) will be in heaven as the great multitude.

The great multitude will be in heaven during the one year wrath of God. Armageddon will not happen until the year is complete. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. When He marries His bride, it will be a wedding and marriage supper in heaven and hell on the earth. Then after one year we will leave heaven as part of the armies of heaven and Armageddon will happen.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Who else has it? ??
Show me a link.

I don't get my beliefs or understanding from others. Certainly, there are things that you can learn from others and I do, but for the most part I just read the Word of God.

Most pretrib teachers do not understand that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. They think that the great tribulation, when believers are hunted down for not taking the mark is the same thing as God pouring His vengeance out on an unbelieving world. Does that make any sense to you? It doesn't to me, and I know better.

Any Amil teachers are the blind leading the blind. There are things you can learn from them but for most part, they are the foolish virgins without a clue.

Few people understand that there are two raptures. I didn't learn it from anybody, I learned it from reading and understanding the Word of God.

So since I understand that the great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing, no matter how many others think it is, that would mean there should be a time frame for the wrath of God. And there is, it is one year long according to the Word of God.

Where is the 3.5 yrs , the covenant made, the revealing and power of the ac, and the 1 yr wrath timeline of anyone, other than yourself?
Link please.

Where did you learn there would be a rapture of the Jews in addition to a pretribulation rapture? Link please. Or did you learn it from the Word of God

I have never in over 45 years of studying different positions seen the timeline you are expressing.

That's a fact. But everything I say comes from the Word of God. The book is unsealed now, we are at the time of the end. How many people understand that there are two raptures? Constant fighting.......pretrib is wrong........the antichrist has to be revealed before the gathering from heaven and earth. Post trib is wrong...........we can escape all these things that come to pass.

Wake up Church.........there are two raptures.

If the Church would open their eyes, they would see that there will be a rapture of the Church before the great tribulation and there will be a rapture of the 12 Tribes before the wrath of God. Until you understand that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.........you are not understanding the Word of God.

You are far ahead of most people that study the Word of God, as you understand that there will be two raptures. If you would just get out of the way and put the second rapture at the 6th seal everything falls together perfectly.

Why do you insist on putting the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 as the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19. Why don't you put it at the 6th seal where it belongs. It right there...........the sun and the moon are darkened and the star fall from heaven. The Word of God shows you the exact things happen at the 6th seal. Quit listening to what has been passed down from decades and decades and decades and read the Word of God and put the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal..........immediately after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Our time appears to be very, very, very short. Now is the time for the bride to make herself ready.

 

[WPM]

Show me where I said this. This would not be correct. The Antichrist will be revealed right AFTER the rapture of the Church. And the rapture of the Church occurs AFTER the final week has begun. That is when the 7 seals are opened, and he goes forth conquering and to conquer.


The innumerable number are a mixture of martyrs, the dead in Christ that are not martyrs, the alive church that was caught up, the dead Jews of the 2nd harvest that are martyrs and not martyrs and the alive Jews that are caught up when the tribulation is cut short.

Two folds become one fold.


I can make that claim. The tribulation of the those days is the great tribulation that begins when the AOD is set up and ends at the harvest at the 6th seal. Those raptured that came out of great tribulation, came out of "The" great tribulation.

The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th SEAL.

The great multitude is a combination of the pretribulation rapture of the Church (dead in Christ and alive that remained) and the rapture of the dead and alive Jews of the second harvest which is after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.


Ezekiel 4 uses a day as a year. The day of vengeance is a year of recompenses. The day of vengeance is the year of my redeemed.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

In Revelation 14 we see the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth as first fruits. Those that are redeemed from the earth go to heaven. When the harvest of Revelation 14 occurs........at the 6th seal.......all the redeemed from the earth (Church and Jews) will be in heaven as the great multitude.

The great multitude will be in heaven during the one year wrath of God. Armageddon will not happen until the year is complete. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. When He marries His bride, it will be a wedding and marriage supper in heaven and hell on the earth. Then after one year we will leave heaven as part of the armies of heaven and Armageddon will happen.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.


I don't get my beliefs or understanding from others. Certainly, there are things that you can learn from others and I do, but for the most part I just read the Word of God.

Most pretrib teachers do not understand that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. They think that the great tribulation, when believers are hunted down for not taking the mark is the same thing as God pouring His vengeance out on an unbelieving world. Does that make any sense to you? It doesn't to me, and I know better.

Any Amil teachers are the blind leading the blind. There are things you can learn from them but for most part, they are the foolish virgins without a clue.

Few people understand that there are two raptures. I didn't learn it from anybody, I learned it from reading and understanding the Word of God.

So since I understand that the great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing, no matter how many others think it is, that would mean there should be a time frame for the wrath of God. And there is, it is one year long according to the Word of God.


Where did you learn there would be a rapture of the Jews in addition to a pretribulation rapture? Link please. Or did you learn it from the Word of God


That's a fact. But everything I say comes from the Word of God. The book is unsealed now, we are at the time of the end. How many people understand that there are two raptures? Constant fighting.......pretrib is wrong........the antichrist has to be revealed before the gathering from heaven and earth. Post trib is wrong...........we can escape all these things that come to pass.

Wake up Church.........there are two raptures.

If the Church would open their eyes, they would see that there will be a rapture of the Church before the great tribulation and there will be a rapture of the 12 Tribes before the wrath of God. Until you understand that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.........you are not understanding the Word of God.

You are far ahead of most people that study the Word of God, as you understand that there will be two raptures. If you would just get out of the way and put the second rapture at the 6th seal everything falls together perfectly.

Why do you insist on putting the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 as the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19. Why don't you put it at the 6th seal where it belongs. It right there...........the sun and the moon are darkened and the star fall from heaven. The Word of God shows you the exact things happen at the 6th seal. Quit listening to what has been passed down from decades and decades and decades and read the Word of God and put the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal..........immediately after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Our time appears to be very, very, very short. Now is the time for the bride to make herself ready.

Nothing is literal in Scripture to you. Nothing is safe. The Bible is an esoteric book that you twist to support your error. You just make it up as you go. You use real characters and literal events in Scripture as convenient theological pawns, symbols and types to reinforce what you have been taught. All the time, you do not have an antitype for your types. You have no substance for your shadows. Everything is cryptic. Everything is obscure. Everything is vague. You baselessly make the Bible align with your Pretrib imaginations and the Left Behind novels. That sums up your theology. You are consistently incapable of supporting your claims. That is why you avoid or fudge question after question.

The extra-biblical statements get more and more and the avoided questions get larger and larger.

1. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
2. Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?
3. Where is your tribulation period following Matthew 24:44 (or any other rapture passage)?
4. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
5. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
6. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
7. Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
8. Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
9. Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
10. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
11. Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
12. Show us any Scripture that teaches there are "two" future "raptures"?
13. Where in the Bible does it teach that "the fig tree having two harvests are referring to two raptures”?
14. Where in the Scriptures does it teach that “the two folds of sheep are referring to two raptures”?
15. Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?
16. Show us any Scripture that teaches "the Church is removed before the great tribulation, which is the time of testing"?
17. Show us any Scripture that teaches there is a "one-year wrath of God"?

 

[Douggg]

@rebuilder 454
@The Light

Them in Revelation 7:9, the great multitude, are great tribulation saints who die during the great tribulation time frame.

Some by being martyred; others for other reasons, such as sickness, or because of environmental stress of the plagues.

What John saw was their "souls" in heaven (not raptured), before the throne of God (Revelation 7:15). The white robes that John saw them clothed in represents the righteousness of the saints.

As each of the great tribulation saints dies at different points throughout the great tribulation, each individual's soul go to heaven. If it were some sort of rapture event - they would all be taken together - at one set moment. So there is no rapture involved.