Proof that Jesus is God

[Cristo Rei]

Jesus was praying to the Father in him. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."
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Praying to the father in him? Either his God or he isn't

I do know this...
1/ Jesus refers to the Lord on several times as another entity.
2/ Jesus speaks to the Lord on several times as another entity.

Also. God says "this is my son, with him I am well pleased"
He doesn't say it's Him but His son

 

[keithr]

The verses you quote tell of Christ's humanity, while other scriptures speak of Christ's divinity.

No, they tell of the relationship between God and Jesus - Jesus was God's only begotten son. The verses I quoted from John 20:17, Revelation 2:7, 3:2,12,21 were all spoken by Jesus after his resurrection, when he was no longer human, and in them he still claimed that God was his father and his god.

Jesus had to be the perfect man so that he could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind, while at the same time he had to be God to forgive us our sins.

He had to be a human only, otherwise he was not a suitable substitute to pay for Adam's sin, because Adam was a perfect man (until he sinned). This is why God could not pay the redemption price Himself, and therefore he anointed His son Jesus to be our saviour and sent him into the world in human form to die on Adam and all his descendants behalf. However, because Jesus did not commit any sins God was justified in resurrecting Jesus to life again, at which point he rewarded Jesus with a new spirit nature, superior to what he had before he was made flesh, so that Jesus then gained the immortal nature that God has. The amazing thing is that God has promised Christians the same immortal spirit being nature, the same as Jesus has - we will become part of this new creation of God's and become adopted sons of God, members of His household.

God has appointed all judgement of manknd to Jesus ("For the Father judges no one, but he has given all judgment to the Son", John 5:22), so Jesus does not need to be God in order to forgive people of their sins.

 

[keithr]

Jesus was praying to the Father in him. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."

Regarding "I and the Father are one", I suggest you carefully read Jesus' words in John 17. Some verses from John 17:

1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;
2) even as you gave him authority over all flesh, so he will give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4) I glorified you on the earth. I have accomplished the work which you have given me to do.
5) Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
6) I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word.

11) I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

20) Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who will believe in me through their word,
21) that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
23) I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.
24) Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25) Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me.
26) I made known to them your name, and will make it known; that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

We are not God, yet Jesus prayed that we may be one with the Father and with Jesus. So clearly the expression "I and the Father are one" does not imply that Jesus is God.

 

[Cooper]

Praying to the father in him? Either his God or he isn't

I do know this...
1/ Jesus refers to the Lord on several times as another entity.
2/ Jesus speaks to the Lord on several times as another entity.

Also. God says "this is my son, with him I am well pleased"
He doesn't say it's Him but His son

Read 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Colossians 2:9.
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[Wrangler]

Jesus was praying to the Father in him. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."

Utter nonsense! Jesus said we are also one with the Father. That makes us all God, right?

There are many proofs Jesus is not God. How did he tell us to pray? To God, who is our Father in heaven. Jesus was not in heaven when he said this.

By contrast, nowhere does Jesus say to pray to us, that God is trinity or is God the Son mentioned.

In heaven, there is a seat reserved for Jesus who sits at the right hand of God. One cannot sit on their own right hand. Not even God can violate logic. God knows sense. He does not know nonsense like the trinity or square circles.

 

[kcnalp]

Utter nonsense! Jesus said we are also one with the Father. That makes us all God, right?

No, but "The Word was God" for certain, unless you're JW.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Read 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Colossians 2:9.
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That doesn't change the two facts

Jesus talks about God
Jesus speaks to God

These are the actions of Christ

 

[kcnalp]

That doesn't change the two facts

Jesus talks about God
Jesus speaks to God

These are the actions of Christ

Well yeah, God spoke to Himself in Gen 1
"Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness."

 

[APAK]

No, but "The Word was God" for certain, unless you're JW.

The (W)word or logos was with/towards/intrinsically attached to YHWH ONLY, no one else. And this logos was DIVINE and the only source of this divinity/purity in thought and expression is only from the ONE YHWH, God Almighty, the Father of ALL.

 

[Cooper]

That doesn't change the two facts

Jesus talks about God
Jesus speaks to God

These are the actions of Christ

Jesus will talk to, and about his heavenly Father while he is on earth. Then he returned from whence he came, to be the second person of the Trinity. Prior to that He was the Word who became flesh in John 1:1.
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[robert derrick]

If I praise the name of Jesus, guess who I am worshiping...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

God with us.
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Very good. Another proof that Jesus is the true God equal with the Father, and held in same honour.

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." (John 5)

And the Jehovaites will be diving back into their Greeky intellects, to come up with a 'teaching' that this honoring of the Son as of the Father is not really what Jesus was talking.

Jehovaties are not Christian. They are wanna-be Jews of the Old Covenant, yet giving lip-service to Jesus. They have no business being here, other than to invade with their proudness of pseudo Greek learnedness.

And they refer to their forefather unbelieving Jews as unitarian Jews, which also is false, because those orthodox Jews do not reject Messiah as being the Lord God of promise. They still know that the Messiah is God, but they just reject Jesus as being that promised One.

Jehovaism is just another made up religion out of the Old Covenant, without any legitimacy whatsoever. They don't even rank in false religion as much as the Jews' or Muslim religions.

 

[robert derrick]

What Scriptural passage is that?

I like the sound of it. How about you?
Look, you people dont belong here. It's for Christians. Not for Jehovah worshipping deniers of the Lord Jesus. You just like the tantalizing pseudo-intellectualism of being really great Greek artists of 'translation'. You are foolish children who play change-the-Scripture games to suit your own made-up religion.

'The Word was God' is just a symbolic reference... That is when you lost me as having any respect for you bunch of clowns as serious people.

Go away and scat and leave discussing Christian doctrine to the Christian. You're only here, because you get tired of chatting among yourselves and patting each other on the back. I know it must be boring, but you need to go back to it. I mean, even the so-called 'unitarian' Jews don't want anything to do with it. Lonely and sad is what you are, but that's not our fault, only your's.

 

[robert derrick]

Really? you are using THEIR faulty arguments for your post!

He is not a Jehovah's Witness. He is a 'Jehovaite'.

 

[robert derrick]

It concerns me, judging from the number of likes, that the number of Jehovahites are in the majority over the Christians. This on a Christian forum indeed. Perhaps this has opened up a new mission field?
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True, we must include the twofold children of hell more than they...

 

[robert derrick]

That is far too complicated, I lost track of what you were saying and stopped reading halfway through, sorry.

Don't forget God is neither male, nor female.

We know Jesus is the Word, and in verse 1 we are told the Word (Jesus) is God.

Then in verse 14 we are told the Word in heaven, (God) became flesh, and elsewhere we read God humbled himself and became man for 33 years, while on earth.

He then returned to heaven from whence he came, all the time retaining his perfect divinity, even while being in the flesh, and when he returns again, nobody will be in any doubt as to who the Word actually was then, and is today.

The important thing to remember is that we are talking about 1 omnipresent God in heaven and on earth.
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Well said. Crystal clear. And a mystery that some don't want to fathom, so they just make up something more natural to their minds, like God created a naturally mortal man to 'perform' the creation...Right. That makes total sense. I'm still waiting to understand exactly how that naturally mortal man 'performed' that feat of creation with his words only...

Look, these people are not a serious people. The only time I engage them anymore is to mock them, which is all they deserve. They completely lost me, when they threw away 'And the Word was God' as a symbolism. Very childish and intellectually worthless.

"The important thing to remember is that we are talking about 1 omnipresent God in heaven and on earth."

"Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else." (Deut 4)

And so exactly when was it that the Lord, Who is God, was upon the earth? Ah yes, Jesus.

And at the First Resurrection He shall be upon the earth again: "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God." (Job 19)

Job's prophecy is unmistakable: 1. He shall see his redeemer stand upon the earth. 2. After he dies, the one he shall see stand upon the earth will be God.

The Redeemer Job is prophesying of is Jesus, Who is God in the flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God." (Job 19)

Job's prophecy is unmistakable:
1. He shall see his redeemer stand upon the earth.
2. After he dies, the One he shall see is God.

Simple reading and context: Job's Redeemer, whom he shall see standing upon the earth, after he has already died, is God.
There is only One redeemer for man with God: Jesus. The Redeemer and God that Job prophesied to see stand upon the earth after the First resurrection.

Unless of course you get all Greeky in a very large display of intellectual prowess, and constructing something entirely different from what is plainly written for us in English.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert Derrick said:
John 14: 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?[/Quote\]

At John 14:9. Too many Trinitarians say, your forgetting what Jesus said to the apostle Philip, and what was that? This: “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” John 14:9, well, that is far different from Jesus’ saying, ‘I am the Father. Jesus also had told Philip and the other faithful apostles at John 20:17 that he was going away to God his Father; so how could Jesus in the same breath say that Philip, when looking at Jesus, was looking at the Father? Jesus could not have meant that, for he Showed God was his Father when he said: “Ye believe in God, believe also in me.” John 14:1, Why was the expression “also in me,” used in John 14:1 if Jesus were God himself? Philip asked Jesus: “Lord, show us the Father,” and Jesus answered that was what he had been doing all along, namely, showing them the Father. He had been explaining who his heavenly Father was. He had been showing them what his heavenly Father was like. He imitated his Father. He was like him, so much so that when one saw Jesus it was as if seeing his Father.

I wouldn't use the word 'imitate'. Jesus is the exact image of His Person. More more precise and accurate than 'imitate'. (Just a semantic I know, but still...)

“Ye believe in God, believe also in me.” Makes the point clear: Believe in Jesus as you believe in God. Just like God. Jesus is saying He is also God to believe in...

It's far easier, simpler, and accurate to believe Jesus, the Son, is the true God (I John 5). Otherwise, you have to become a Jehovaite that enjoy hacking and cutting and and parsing Scripture to death. (In a very Greekish way)

 

[robert derrick]

"I have no idea why you are parsing trinitarians from Christians. Never heard the term Jehovahites before but it is my understanding that JW, unitarian Christians and Messianic Jews consider themselves Christian while rejecting trinitarianism."

Jehovaite: One who worships Jehovah only, while giving lip-service to Jesus as Lord only. (Robert's Concise Dictionary of false worship, religion, teaching, etc...)

There is no 'Unitarian' Christian. Only 'Unitarian' believers. Unitarianism is the pagan ideology, that Jesus, like Herakles before him, was first created a natural and mortal man, who then was resurrected after death, and 'blessed' with immortality by the gods, due to his really good things he did on earth as a man.

Unitarians also do not believe the Bible to be the infallible Word of God. (Of course. How else can they come up with Unitarian paganism out of the Bible?)

There are no 'unitarian' Jews, even as no 'Unitarian' Christians. (You cannot be a 'Christian' while refusing to worship Jesus Christ, since you would be worshipping a created creature of God)

Messianic Jews, those who believe Jesus and those who reject Him, all know that the prophecy of the Messiah was the Lord Himself to come as a man born of a woman on earth to redeem His people. (The unbelieving Jews just didn't like the fact that Jesus was the Lord God on earth, because they did not like Jesus correcting their false religion by strict adherence to Scripture of the First Covenant)

Plenty of people consider themselves Christians while rejecting the God the Son as different from God the Father in the Godhead. They are called 'Oneness' Christians, and they are Christians in fact, while wrong in the Godhead.

'Unitarianism' however is a made up pagan belief system first begun by Arian in the 3rd century A.D.
(Refer to my above discourse on Unitarianism: the paganism of so-called Christians)

 

[NayborBear]

Not entirely. I was also quoting verses that John wrote that say Jesus was God's only son, to show that John did not believe that Jesus was God, and therefore supporting that John 1:1 should be translated differently, perhaps like the Revised English Bible translates it:

"In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God's presence, and what God was, the Word was."​

Here are some other verses that John wrote that I didn't mention:

John 3:16-18 (WEB):

16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
17) For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
18) He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.​

1 John 4:9,10,14-15 (WEB):
9) By this God’s love was revealed in us, that God has sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10) In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.

Jesus also referred to God as his God, and his father:

Matthew 27:46 - About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
(Rev 2:7) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of my God.
(Rev 3:2) Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God.
(Rev 3:12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
(Rev 3:21) He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

These are all plain, straightforward to understand verses, that clearly state that Jesus is God's only son. A father and his son are not the same person - that's also plain and simple to understand. So there is no excuse not to believe the simple truth that's repeated throughout the Bible. Even the demons acknowledge this truth:

Matthew 8:28-29 (WEB):

28) When he came to the other side, into the country of the Gergesenes, two people possessed by demons met him there, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that nobody could pass that way.
29) Behold, they cried out, saying, “What do we have to do with you, Jesus, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”​

Gotta love that World English Bible!
I do have some reservations, especially in the O.T. concerning the "pronunciation" of the name "Yahweh." (yah-way with the "w", which should imho be pronounced with the "v" sound to "yah-V'ay." more emphasis on the "Veh sound then "ay".)
Which almost makes His name 3 consonants, instead of 2.
Frikkin' english right?

Whereas I pronounce His name more distinctly as 3 consonants.
(Yah-'uh-Vay) (iow? If yer gonna say His Holy Name? Speak the Name correctly )
But? That's jez me .

Outside of that?
I believe you've just converted me from the KJV! As the "interpretations" seem to be "spot on/better", then the KJV, as far as I've checked thus far. And from what I've learned/been learnt (as a blind man) from, and by, my "teachers."

 

[Cooper]

Very good. Another proof that Jesus is the true God equal with the Father, and held in same honour.

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." (John 5)

And the Jehovaites will be diving back into their Greeky intellects, to come up with a 'teaching' that this honoring of the Son as of the Father is not really what Jesus was talking.

Jehovaties are not Christian. They are wanna-be Jews of the Old Covenant, yet giving lip-service to Jesus. They have no business being here, other than to invade with their proudness of pseudo Greek learnedness.

And they refer to their forefather unbelieving Jews as unitarian Jews, which also is false, because those orthodox Jews do not reject Messiah as being the Lord God of promise. They still know that the Messiah is God, but they just reject Jesus as being that promised One.

Jehovaism is just another made up religion out of the Old Covenant, without any legitimacy whatsoever. They don't even rank in false religion as much as the Jews' or Muslim religions.

If I had a Christian forum, I would ban the cults, and keep it just for genuine bona fide Christians, so we could have a blessed time with the Lord, without interruption.
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