Proof that Jesus is God

[Wrangler]

Look, you people dont belong here. It's for Christians.

Christians. Trinitarians. Not the same.

 

[NayborBear]

“Ye believe in God, believe also in me.” Makes the point clear: Believe in Jesus as you believe in God. Just like God. Jesus is saying He is also God to believe in...

It's like Jesus is saying "You believe in God?" "Then BELIEVE ME!"
"I've BEEN there!" (heck!) "I AM there!"
"And, I can ASSURE y'all?"
"I AM the ONLY way back TO GOD who SENT me!"

I am still trying to understand where yer coming from. You constantly are bashing what you call "Jehovites" because they are worshipping Jehovah only! At least as far as you can see, or tell.
Do these people even acknowledge Christ?
Do these people say that one must (at least) believe IN, and accept Christ before going on TO the Father?
And Jesus Himself thought it NOT robbery to be EQUAL WITH God!
Yet, that doesn't make Jesus the Father!

It also sounds as if you are saying "There is NO NEED to go unto the Father who SENT Christ in the first place!"

It's as if you are refusing in the acknowledging, to a point of scorning, certain, if not all "Spiritual Gifts." That God has bestowed upon certain people(as God chooses whom He will) in the carrying out the profiting of not only an individual him/herself, but the Kingdom of God and Heaven as well.
And, because these "gifts" are being displayed in forums such as this, and not in some "church of stone?"
Perhaps it is because the "church" has gone too far towards this "mindset and attitude/s" of that which I just described? And, the kind of "love" that displayed, tends to be more "seductive" in "steering" a believer towards that which is written here?:
Ezekiel 13:
20 “Therefore the Lord Yahweh says: ‘Behold, I am against your pillows, with which you hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms. I will let the souls go, even the souls whom you hunt to make them fly.
21 I will also tear your kerchiefs, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they will be no more in your hand to be hunted. Then you will know that I am Yahweh.
22 Because with lies you have grieved the heart of the righteous, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, and be saved alive.
23 Therefore you shall no more see false visions, nor practice divination. I will deliver my people out of your hand. Then you will know that I am Yahweh.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I would ban the cults,

starting with YOU, and Wrangler, and the others on here that try and push HERESY!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Christians. Trinitarians. Not the same.

the latter are those who believe in Bible TRUTH, like God being a Trinity. The former include a bunch of HERETICS!

 

[Cooper]

Christians. Trinitarians. Not the same.

The difference between Unitarians and Trinitarians is that Unitarians believe God created the universe and all in it and stayed there without offering a solution whereby people could be cleansed of their sins, which only a sinless God can do.
.

 

[Cooper]

starting with YOU, and Wrangler, and the others on here that try and push HERESY!

While the only person in step marches sadly on.
.

 

[robert derrick]

U know how they say actions speak louder than words... It seems to apply here. Jesus' actions indicated there is a God above him.
Who else could he possibly be praying to in the garden when he was most afraid...
He prayed to the Lord to give him strength. That comforts me cos that's what i do too instead of praying for interventions

Jesus wouldn't need to do that if he was the Lord himself... God is spirit, the Holy Spirit, i believe.

The Vatican even says that the Trinity is a mystery. And they like to define everything in their Catechisms usually

So unless there is an explanation as to who Jesus was praying to then that matter remains open in my book.
I can't just simply ignore that obvious contradiction. Maybe our feeble human minds are just too inept to understand such things

There is the mystery of the Godhead hid from the world (Col 2) (1 Cor 2), until Jesus came to bring all things to light. That mystery of God is now made known to the believers in Him, the Church. (Rom 16).

It is no more 'mysterious', except to them that do not believe. There is God the Son and God the Father, and they are One in perfect everlasting unity by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore, all three Persons of the Godhead are One in God and One God together. And they cannot be one and the same Person, because Jesus prayed the Father would make all believers to be one, even as the Father and the Son are one. (John 17) Therefore, Scriptural 'oneness' is that of unity, not of being one and the same person. As believers, I will never be you, and you will never be me, and likewise with the Father and the Son, they will neve be each other.

Now in that God the Son while in the flesh prayed to God the Father, Who remained in heaven, it was because the Son humbled Himself to be a man (Philp 2), that he may show all mankind, that by His Spirit with faith in Him, we likewise can do the same. He is our example and forerunner to heaven as a man, therefore, He willingly submitted Himself to God the Father as we men and women ought do.

And even as God the Son on earth willingly laid down His everlasting Life by power of God, so He could have on earth taken that power of Life back to Himself at any time(John 10). This demonstrates the great love He has for mankind, in that He could have called it quits at any time before the cross, or even on the cross, and in the eyes of all could have returned to heaven as the true God that He was and is. And left mankind to themselves and prince and power of the air.

You see? Simple. Much simpler than trying to gut-wrench the Scriptures into some sort of fantastical pagan myth of Jesus being created in order to 'perform' the creation. Or try to explain just how the 'One and Only Person' God was on earth as a man and yet in heaven as God.

The mystery hid from the beginning of the world is that there are three Persons in the Godhead, all three being God individually and equally, and all three being united as One God together.

 

[robert derrick]

U know how they say actions speak louder than words... It seems to apply here. Jesus' actions indicated there is a God above him.
Who else could he possibly be praying to in the garden when he was most afraid...
He prayed to the Lord to give him strength. That comforts me cos that's what i do too instead of praying for interventions

Jesus wouldn't need to do that if he was the Lord himself... God is spirit, the Holy Spirit, i believe.

The Vatican even says that the Trinity is a mystery. And they like to define everything in their Catechisms usually

So unless there is an explanation as to who Jesus was praying to then that matter remains open in my book.
I can't just simply ignore that obvious contradiction. Maybe our feeble human minds are just too inept to understand such things

Where does Scripture say Jesus was praying for 'strength'? He was praying that there might be another way of redeeming mankind, than through Himself dying on the cross. The fervency of prayer was to remain as a man unto that end. He could have simply called in avenging angels, or just took up again the power of His everlasting Life, and returned to heaven.

And He wasn't afraid of dying on the cross (Matthew 10), nor was He afraid of the cross. What He feared most (Heb 5) was to be for the first time in all of the everlasting, separated from God by our sins (Isaiah 59), which is the first wage for sin (Rom 6).

And this is the mystery of Heb 5, how that the Son learned obedience and was made perfect by it. He feared separation from god for our sakes, to pay the price for sin, and so learned that obedience does come with a heavy cost: death, and yet He continued to the cross, being made perfect, in that God Himself learned for Himself something new: fear with obedience unto death.

To say that Jesus is not God is to say that God has never known what it is to be a man on earth in fear of death, and yet demanded by god to obey Himself. I.e. An uncompassionate, unfeeling, non-empathetic eternal Being with Power, but not mercy. This is in fact why God could test Abraham in faith with the command to sacrifice his son of promise, Isaac. Because could knew from the foundation of the world, that He would provide Himself a sacrifice for man's sins, prophesied by Abraham (Gen 22) and confirmed by Paul (Eph 5). Himself meant Himself Personally to be that sacrifice and Lamb of God: Jesus. God did not provide for Himself a sacrifice of someone else. (Which is what the Jevovahite unitarian pagans would have others believe)

When the Son said 'I thirst' on the cross, He wasn't asking for water on earth, but rather thirsting for fellowship with God (John 4). At this point was were the sins of the whole world placed upon His soul, and therefore God had to separate from Him.

 

[kcnalp]

Don't forget God is neither male, nor female.

Genesis 1:27 (NKJV)
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

 

[robert derrick]

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering..." (Gen 22)

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it." (Eph 5)

Abraham prophesied that God would provide Himself a lamb sacrifice. Jesus is that Lamb of God Who sacrificed Himself for our sins.

Jesus is the Lamb of God providing Himself as a burnt offering of sacrifice for our sins.

The Scripture does not say that God Himself would provide some other lamb of sacrifice. To reject Jesus as the true God Himself, is to reject the prophecy of Abraham and the confirmation of Paul. (Which is no big deal to unitarian Jehovaites who believe Scripture errs, when it does not coincide with their paganism, and that Jesus was created by God to be a lamb sacrifice, instead of Himself...)

 

[robert derrick]

If I had a Christian forum, I would ban the cults, and keep it just for genuine bona fide Christians, so we could have a blessed time with the Lord, without interruption.
.

Yes, and the term cult would begin with The Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord and God...

And I have thought the same about the Jehovahites, but then so long as I am not foolishly trying to engage them personally, I can sit back and watch them make fools of themselves.

I mean, they may be childish and foolish, but they are not boring...Not yet, anyway.

 

[Cooper]

Genesis 1:27 (NKJV)
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God created male and female in his own image.

Man means mankind and includes both genders. In these days of political correctness the term humankind is used instead of mankind. Neuter having no sexual organs describes it best, as God in heaven is spirit and not flesh and blood.
.

 

[robert derrick]

It's like Jesus is saying "You believe in God?" "Then BELIEVE ME!"
"I've BEEN there!" (heck!) "I AM there!"
"And, I can ASSURE y'all?"
"I AM the ONLY way back TO GOD who SENT me!"

I am still trying to understand where yer coming from. You constantly are bashing what you call "Jehovites" because they are worshipping Jehovah only! At least as far as you can see, or tell.
Do these people even acknowledge Christ?
Do these people say that one must (at least) believe IN, and accept Christ before going on TO the Father?
And Jesus Himself thought it NOT robbery to be EQUAL WITH God!
Yet, that doesn't make Jesus the Father!

It also sounds as if you are saying "There is NO NEED to go unto the Father who SENT Christ in the first place!"

It's as if you are refusing in the acknowledging, to a point of scorning, certain, if not all "Spiritual Gifts." That God has bestowed upon certain people(as God chooses whom He will) in the carrying out the profiting of not only an individual him/herself, but the Kingdom of God and Heaven as well.
And, because these "gifts" are being displayed in forums such as this, and not in some "church of stone?"
Perhaps it is because the "church" has gone too far towards this "mindset and attitude/s" of that which I just described? And, the kind of "love" that displayed, tends to be more "seductive" in "steering" a believer towards that which is written here?:
Ezekiel 13:
20 “Therefore the Lord Yahweh says: ‘Behold, I am against your pillows, with which you hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms. I will let the souls go, even the souls whom you hunt to make them fly.
21 I will also tear your kerchiefs, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they will be no more in your hand to be hunted. Then you will know that I am Yahweh.
22 Because with lies you have grieved the heart of the righteous, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, and be saved alive.
23 Therefore you shall no more see false visions, nor practice divination. I will deliver my people out of your hand. Then you will know that I am Yahweh.

Not sure what you are getting at? So identify ourselves.
Do you believe Jesus was created?

Jehovahites are those who believe Jehovah is Lord God only, not Jesus, who was created by Jehovah for the purpose of 'performing' the creation of Jehovah God. And since they would agree we must not worship created beings and creatures as the Creator, then they cannot worship Jesus as Lord, but Jehovah only.

Our need is to come to Jesus, who is God the Son, that we may go to God the Father. I did not come to God by the Father'. It was and is the name of Jesus who draws us to Himself, that we may know God and the Father (John 12)(Phillip 2).

 

[BroRando]

It's like Jesus is saying "You believe in God?" "Then BELIEVE ME!"
"I've BEEN there!" (heck!) "I AM there!"
"And, I can ASSURE y'all?"
"I AM the ONLY way back TO GOD who SENT me!"

Yep. Jesus was SENT. By Whom?? The trinity claims the Son is the second person of God. You won't find the Phrase "Jesus is God" in any scripture and you won't find that phrase in any trinity doctrines. The three parts, persons, and forms are all WITHOUT NAMES.

Jesus is far removed from the trinity doctrine. Now if you have a trinity doctrine with the name Jesus Christ in it. I'm open to see it... waiting... tapping my fingers...

Anyways a true trinitarian would not agree that 'Jesus is God'. Do you know why? Jesus is not a three person god. A trinitarian would say that the son according to doctrine is the second person of the trinity. No such scripture though.

The trinity states no persons in the trinity have a beginning. So why are you quoting John 1:1 that states, "In the beginning was the Word" Trying to prove the trinity with the scripture that nullifies it... is not a very good stronghold to start from.

Trinitarians are so busy trying to turn Jesus into God, they deny him as the Christ. Where is Jesus Christ in your trinity doctrine?? Who came in the flesh?

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 7)

Which trinity gives a witness about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. NONE.

Anyone who represents God is part of the Godhead. Angles, men, prophets. If Jesus is God then who was that who gave him authority?? Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."

After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. (Rev 18:1)

 

[Cooper]

Yes, and the term cult would begin with The Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord and God...

And I have thought the same about the Jehovahites, but then so long as I am not foolishly trying to engage them personally, I can sit back and watch them make fools of themselves.

I mean, they may be childish and foolish, but they are not boring...Not yet, anyway.

I wish I was more laid back. I tend to get upset.
.

 

[Cooper]

Yep. Jesus was SENT. By Whom?? The trinity claims the Son is the second person of God. You won't find the Phrase "Jesus is God" in any scripture and you won't find that phrase in any trinity doctrines. The three parts, persons, and forms are all WITHOUT NAMES.

Jesus is far removed from the trinity doctrine. Now if you have a trinity doctrine with the name Jesus Christ in it. I'm open to see it... waiting... tapping my fingers...

Anyways a true trinitarian would not agree that 'Jesus is God'. Do you know why? Jesus is not a three person god. A trinitarian would say that the son according to doctrine is the second person of the trinity. No such scripture though.

The trinity states no persons in the trinity have a beginning. So why are you quoting John 1:1 that states, "In the beginning was the Word" Trying to prove the trinity with the scripture that nullifies it... is not a very good stronghold to start from.

Trinitarians are so busy trying to turn Jesus into God, they deny him as the Christ. Where is Jesus Christ in your trinity doctrine?? Who came in the flesh?

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 7)

Which trinity gives a witness about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. NONE.

Anyone who represents God is part of the Godhead. Angles, men, prophets. If Jesus is God then who was that who gave him authority?? Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."

After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. (Rev 18:1)

Is this your religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-salvation/

I see the page on Jesus is heavily edited. Shame on them. Without Christ there is no Christianity, yet you call yourselves Christians.
.

 

[BroRando]

I'm still waiting on your proof of Jesus Christ in your trinity doctrine.

During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. (Hebrews 12:28)

I never met a trinitarian that believed in (Romans 10:9) The trinity doesn't beget salvation but notice what does?
For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[BroRando]

Three Billion trinitarians on earth and not a single one can show Jesus Christ in their trinity doctrine.

Maybe I should be the yelling that you're in a cult by believing in a man made doctrine that omits Jesus Christ from it??

Christians follow the Christ.
Trinitarians follow the trinity.

Therefore.... Christians aren't trinitarians and trinitarians aren't Christians.

 

[Jlentz]

There is certainly an argument going on here.
Jesus Christ is second in the GodHead.
Christ created ALL things. All things are held together by Him. He is God period.

 

[kcnalp]

God created male and female in his own image.

Man means mankind and includes both genders. In these days of political correctness the term humankind is used instead of mankind. Neuter having no sexual organs describes it best, as God in heaven is spirit and not flesh and blood.
.

Jesus wasn't God / man?