Proof that Jesus is God

[robert derrick]

I have refuted this. See thread in Case Against Trinitarianism. See John 20:17, Jesus going to his God. This is the only God. Jesus’ God is the only God - as he said in Mark 12.

I see no refute from you. Couldn't even find this thread of yours.

The Word was God. So, one last try. How was the Word not God.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

you should go back to the New Testament (KJV) and highlight each and every verse and passage that clearly presents Jesus as God (the Word, the Son, the Son of God, the I AM, the Alpha and the Omega, the second person of the triune Godhead. etc.). And stick with the King James Bible.

Amen! And, Even OT Passages Will Confirm The Triune GodHead, When prayerfully
And Carefully "Compared" As Per 1 Corinthians 2 : 13 KJB! "The Third Person Being
The Blessed Teacher!" Amen?:

I start with just a Few:

The THREE-In-ONE GodHead!
{aka "The Case FOR The Trinity!"}

Concerning critics teaching "NO such THREE Are ONE GodHead! Doctrine":

(A) The Holy Spirit Is The God That "Ananias And Sapphira lied to!"
(Acts 5 : 3-4 KJB!).

(B) The Holy Spirit IS The God That Raised JESUS CHRIST From The Dead!,
(Romans 8 : 9-11 cp 1 Corinthians 6 : 14; 2 Corinthians 4 : 14; 1 Peter 3 : 18)

(C) The Holy Spirit IS The Omnipresent God That Dwells IN All "believers,"
Being The "Blessed Teacher!," For: Understanding!
(Romans 8 : 9-11 cp 1 Corinthians 3 : 16, 6 : 19, 2 : 13!)

Is JESUS CHRIST The Almighty God? What Saith The Pure
And Holy Written WORD Of God, The SCRIPTURES?

The First 13 { of 150+ } SCRIPTURAL “Reasons” {Evidence!}
JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God:

1) God Was Manifest In The Flesh! (1 Timothy 3 : 16)
JESUS CHRIST Was Manifest In The Flesh! (John 1 : 14)

2) JESUS CHRIST Is EMMANUEL
“interpreted = God With us!" (Matthew 1 : 21-23)

3) The SON, JESUS CHRIST Is Called
God, By HIS Own Father! (Hebrews 1 : 8)

4) JESUS CHRIST Is Called
The Great God And Saviour! (Titus 2 : 13)

5) JESUS CHRIST Is Called
The Mighty God! (Isaiah 9 : 6 cp Jeremiah 32 : 18)

6) JESUS CHRIST Is Called
The True God And Eternal Life! (1 John 5 : 20)

7) JESUS CHRIST Is Over All, God,
Blessed For Ever. Amen! (Romans 9 : 5)

8) ALL the angels of God Worship HIM!
(Hebrews 1 : 6), therefore, It Is Impossible
for JESUS CHRIST to be = “Michael the archANGEL!”

Therefore, All The “Evidence” In The Pure And Holy WORD Of God
Plainly And Clearly Teaches All “humble” students that:

JESUS CHRIST Is God Almighty! Amen?

9) JESUS CHRIST was WORSHIPPED!
(Matthew 2 : 11, 14 : 33, 28 : 9; Luke 24 : 52)
Not once did JESUS Say, "See thou do it not,"
as "an angel NOT to be worshipped," spoke
in Revelation 19 : 10, And, 22 : 8-9!

Since ONLY The LORD God is to be worshipped!
(Exodus 34 : 14; Psalms 29 : 2, 45 : 11, 86 : 9, et al;
Matthew 4 : 10; Luke 4 : 8; Revelation 22 : 9):

Holy SCRIPTURE Clearly Teaches us JESUS CHRIST Is God!

10) Every knee shall bow, and "every tongue"
shall confess to GOD! (Romans 14 : 11; Isaiah 45 : 21-23).

The GOD "every tongue is confessing to,”
Is The LORD JESUS CHRIST! (Philippians 2 : 11)

to be continued...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The Case FOR The Triune GodHead!

Continued from Previous:

11) JESUS CHRIST Is Called The SAVIOUR!
(Luke 2 : 11; Acts 5 : 30-31, 13 : 23; Titus 1 : 4, 2 : 13)
(2 Peter 1 : 1, 11, 2 : 20, 3 : 18, 1 John 4 : 14)

ONLY Jehovah God ALONE Is The SAVIOUR!
(Isaiah 43 : 3, 11, 45 : 15, 21; Hosea 13 : 4; Luke 1 : 47)
(1 Timothy 1 : 1, 2 : 3, 4 : 10; Titus 1 : 3, 2 : 10, 3 : 4; Jude 1 : 25)

Therefore, JESUS CHRIST Is God!

12) JESUS CHRIST Forgave sins! (Matthew 9 : 2; Mark 2 : 5)
ONLY GOD Can Forgive sins! (Mark 2 : 7)

Pure And Holy SCRIPTURE Teaches us (Titus 2 : 13):

JESUS CHRIST Is The Great God, The
Only Saviour Who Can Forgive sin!!

If we Deny HIS Deity, how can HE FORGIVE us our sins?
After all, It is Only God's OWN BLOOD (Acts 20 : 28 KJB!),
That Has Power To "CLEANSE us From ALL sin!" Amen?

And, Finally, WHO Is God, The JUDGE Of All?

13) God Almighty Is The JUDGE Of All!

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest
them which do such things, and doest the
same, that thou shalt escape The Judgment Of God?…

...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart
treasurest up unto thyself Wrath against
The Day Of Wrath and Revelation Of
The Righteous JUDGMENT Of God! (Romans 2 : 3, 5)

...God The JUDGE of all!...God Will JUDGE!… (Hebrews 12 : 23, 13 : 4)
...Strong Is The LORD God Who JUDGES!... (Revelation 18 : 8)

JESUS CHRIST Is God, Because All The Verses In The Holy BIBLE,
That Talk About GOD Being The JUDGE, Must Refer To JESUS CHRIST,
Since HE Alone JUDGES! The Father JUDGES no man! (John 5 : 22)

The Father Has Committed All JUDGMENT
To His SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!! (John 5 : 22) Why?

"That All men should honour The SON, even as
they honour The Father. He that honoureth not The SON
honoureth not The Father Who Hath Sent HIM!" (John 5 : 23)

JW's, SDA's, Unitarians, And All Dear Readers, do you Really Honor The SON?
Only God Almighty Is The RIGHTEOUS Judge = The LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Precious friend(s) Will you Now... Completely 100% “trust” (believe, place faith in)

The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS Precious BLOOD, And HIS Resurrection!!

to “Receive Forgiveness Of All your sins”?
and go to The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST
for “rewards,” (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15)

OR... ?...will you die in UNbelief (trusting in
“religion, religious works, men's false
teachings or Any “Other deeds” Other Than:

JESUS CHRIST, HIS BLOOD, And HIS Resurrection!,

and go to:

The Great White Throne Judgment Of
GOD ALMIGHTY [ JESUS CHRIST ]
and perish in Eternal Condemnation?
(Revelation 20 : 11-15)

Precious friend(s), Are you “religious” or is your “sin FORGIVEN," so
that you Are Ready for God's RIGHTEOUS Judgment?

 

[Wrangler]

I see no refute from you. Couldn't even find this thread of yours.

The Case Against the Trinity

The Word was God. So, one last try. How was the Word not God.

Figurative reference to God not Jesus.

You just want to ignore John 20:17, Jesus going to his God? And Jesus saying God is far greater than him, knows more than him, selected him, told him what to say and gave him authority, without God Jesus has no authority and how Jesus only says what God tells him to say?

 

[robert derrick]

...........................

Is Jesus the 'Alpha and Omega' in Rev. 22?

There were no quotation marks in the NT manuscripts to help show who was speaking.

Now look at Rev. 22:8-16. John is identified as the speaker in 22:8. The angel speaks in 22:9). The angel apparently continues speaking in 22:10). The angel may be still speaking in 22:11) --- or it could be John or even someone else (as implied in verse 10 in the NAB, 1970 ed.).

Now is the angel still speaking in 22:12) or is it God, or is it Jesus, or even John? There is simply no way of telling who the speaker is from any of the early Bible manuscripts. It's entirely a matter of translator's choice. Some translators have decided it is the angel who continues to speak, and they punctuate it accordingly. So the JB, and NJB use quotation marks to show that these are all words spoken by the angel.

However, the RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ISV, 21st Century King James Version, and TEV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega”).

Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker(s) of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other highly respected trinitarian translations do not!

The ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version, TEV; and WE show (by quotation marks and indenting/paragraphs) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words. (The Jerusalem Bible; the NJB; and Moffatt show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.)

Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.

So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version, TEV; and WE , you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)

And, just as the use of "I, John" indicates a new speaker in Revelation 1:9, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - "I, Jesus" also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement ("I am the Alpha and Omega") was made by someone else!

Even the KJV translators have shown by their use of the word "his" in verse 14 that they didn't mean that Jesus was the same speaker as the Alpha and Omega. The speaker of verse 13 is Almighty God. The comment in verse 14 of these Bibles (as literally translated from the Received Text) explains the importance of doing "His Commandments" (not "My Commandments")! Therefore the speaker of verse 14 is obviously not God as clearly stated by those Bibles which were translated from the Received Text (TR), e.g., KJV; NKJV; KJ21; KJIIV, MKJV; GNV; World English Bible; Young's Literal Translation; Webster Bible (by Noah Webster); and Revised Webster Bible. Lamsa's translation (Holy Bible From the Ancient Eastern Text) also uses "him."

So we can easily see that there is no reason to say Jesus spoke the words recorded at Rev. 22:13 (or the above-named trinitarian Bibles would surely have so translated it!) and, in fact, the context really identifies the speaker as being the same person who spoke at Rev. 1:8, God Almighty, Jehovah, the Father.

The only other use of the title "Alpha and Omega" confirms this understanding.
"And He who sits on the throne said, `Behold, I am making all things new.' .... And He said to me, `It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. .... He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.'" - Rev. 21:5-7, NASB.

"Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be `sons' of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his `brothers.' (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those `brothers' of Jesus are referred to as `sons of God [the Father].' (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)." - pp. 412-413, Reasoning from the Scriptures, WBTS, 1985.

So Rev. 21:6, 7 confirms the understanding that the Alpha and Omega is the Father, not Jesus.

In short, there is no reason, other than a desire to support the trinity tradition, to believe that Jesus is being called "Alpha and Omega" in Rev. 22. And there is good evidence to believe that it is his Father only who uses this title for himself.
....................
As for the Word (Logos) being God, the links I have given you already explain it as simply as I am able to make them. Sometimes a complete answer takes more words than most would like. However, I firmly believe that most people are capable of understanding my studies if they are sincere in their attempts to understand.

And here we go again. The English isn't good enough, because the English is to simple and plain. We can't do that. We must bring in Apollos, who says we don't really know who is speaking...

1. Then you are not sure it is God saying " I am Alpha and Omega"??? Really??? If not God, then who? Some God wanna be like Jesus who was sent to the cross by your unitarian Jewish brethren for making himself God (John 10:33)? (You of course know you are agreeing with their accusation that a man, Jesus, dared to try and make himself God by declaring He was indeed the Christ, the Son of the Blessed...)

But nonetheless, let's go to 3rd or 4th grade grammar class (in simple English as they say):

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

"He which testifies these things says, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

And so, Who is it that Scripture wants to come quickly? Lord Jesus. The One testifying all these things, saying I come quickly. Who is the One testifying these things that I come quickly? The One saying I am Alpha and Omega. And Who is Alpha and Omega? The one saying I come quickly. And Who does Scripture want to come quickly? Lord Jesus.

There is no other reading of this. Little children can understand that.

Sure hallmarks of false doctrine: 1. Can't take it simply as written in your own language. 2. Suggests things are more complicated than they appear as written in your own language. 3. Must go to the languages that only complicated ones can figure out for you.

"This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish...But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." (James 3)

Only devils with hidden agendas make it more complicated, and less easy than it really is, because they can't force their partiality of personal agenda with simply what is written.

 

[robert derrick]

The Case FOR The Triune GodHead!

Continued from Previous:

11) JESUS CHRIST Is Called The SAVIOUR!
(Luke 2 : 11; Acts 5 : 30-31, 13 : 23; Titus 1 : 4, 2 : 13)
(2 Peter 1 : 1, 11, 2 : 20, 3 : 18, 1 John 4 : 14)

ONLY Jehovah God ALONE Is The SAVIOUR!
(Isaiah 43 : 3, 11, 45 : 15, 21; Hosea 13 : 4; Luke 1 : 47)
(1 Timothy 1 : 1, 2 : 3, 4 : 10; Titus 1 : 3, 2 : 10, 3 : 4; Jude 1 : 25)

Therefore, JESUS CHRIST Is God!

12) JESUS CHRIST Forgave sins! (Matthew 9 : 2; Mark 2 : 5)
ONLY GOD Can Forgive sins! (Mark 2 : 7)

Pure And Holy SCRIPTURE Teaches us (Titus 2 : 13):

JESUS CHRIST Is The Great God, The
Only Saviour Who Can Forgive sin!!

If we Deny HIS Deity, how can HE FORGIVE us our sins?
After all, It is Only God's OWN BLOOD (Acts 20 : 28 KJB!),
That Has Power To "CLEANSE us From ALL sin!" Amen?

And, Finally, WHO Is God, The JUDGE Of All?

13) God Almighty Is The JUDGE Of All!

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest
them which do such things, and doest the
same, that thou shalt escape The Judgment Of God?…

...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart
treasurest up unto thyself Wrath against
The Day Of Wrath and Revelation Of
The Righteous JUDGMENT Of God! (Romans 2 : 3, 5)

...God The JUDGE of all!...God Will JUDGE!… (Hebrews 12 : 23, 13 : 4)
...Strong Is The LORD God Who JUDGES!... (Revelation 18 : 8)

JESUS CHRIST Is God, Because All The Verses In The Holy BIBLE,
That Talk About GOD Being The JUDGE, Must Refer To JESUS CHRIST,
Since HE Alone JUDGES! The Father JUDGES no man! (John 5 : 22)

The Father Has Committed All JUDGMENT
To His SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!! (John 5 : 22) Why?

"That All men should honour The SON, even as
they honour The Father. He that honoureth not The SON
honoureth not The Father Who Hath Sent HIM!" (John 5 : 23)

JW's, SDA's, Unitarians, And All Dear Readers, do you Really Honor The SON?
Only God Almighty Is The RIGHTEOUS Judge = The LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Precious friend(s) Will you Now... Completely 100% “trust” (believe, place faith in)

The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS Precious BLOOD, And HIS Resurrection!!

to “Receive Forgiveness Of All your sins”?
and go to The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST
for “rewards,” (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15)

OR... ?...will you die in UNbelief (trusting in
“religion, religious works, men's false
teachings or Any “Other deeds” Other Than:

JESUS CHRIST, HIS BLOOD, And HIS Resurrection!,

and go to:

The Great White Throne Judgment Of
GOD ALMIGHTY [ JESUS CHRIST ]
and perish in Eternal Condemnation?
(Revelation 20 : 11-15)

Precious friend(s), Are you “religious” or is your “sin FORGIVEN," so
that you Are Ready for God's RIGHTEOUS Judgment?

Simple enough. Thanks. As their own unbelieving Jewish kinsmen said, Only God forgives sins...

Yes, they will say God forgives sins of man through the man Christ Jesus. And Jesus was just getting out of place, when He declared the Son of man has power to forgive sins. But of course they will then say that power is given by God, for Jesus to use. And Jesus was really getting overboard, when He declared that power He had to lay down of Himself, and has power to take it up again on His own. (John 10)

And no. They do not honor the Son at all. What they honor is their own minds and show of intellect. They dishonor the Son of God, because they don't like the fact that some mere man is better than they, and the idea of their God becoming a man is just unthinkable...It's called a show of will worship. And the worshipping of angels, which is really what they are talking about in god creating a being before creation of heaven and earth, which were the angles and the sons of God of that time... Which is why Hebrews 1 was written to refute the pagan deist notion that Jesus is merely a created being...

They eat of the knowledge of good and evil, gorging themselves on their own mastery of intellect, posing as caretakers of the truly divine mysteries that the rest of us simple-minded schlubs just can't fathom. Not even that fellow Jesus, who is just another created being, while they themselves are the authors and manufacturers of whole worlds of mystical wonders and secrets.

But polite. Yes, and sincere, don't forget that. Very much so. And above all quite obviously very VERY VERY learned. Just like Lucifer who transforms himself into an angel of light. That he might demote God the Son from His throne and take His place.

 

[robert derrick]

So, since Jesus is a created being. Is he just another created being? like the angels? Or like man made a little lower than the angels?

I mean, is it blasphemy to put a capital letter to his 'Being' that was created, while all others only get a small 'b'? Is it wrong to capitalize him as 'Son', or is that respect of persons over the sons of God at creation? Would Lucifer object to Jesus as 'Son of God? He certainly did so far as Jesus being The son of God...(Matthew 4:3)

Since we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, and the 'W'ord is not God (though the 'W'ord was God at one time), then the 'W'ord Jesus only proceeds out of God's mouth, not being God Himself, nor being the origin of God's own 'W'ord. And so 'H'e would be a created 'B'eing coming out of God's mouth. Like maybe a frog? No wait, that would be the dragon's mouth. And though Jesus claimed to be the Son of the Blessed and making himself God, which was an inexcusable error, he certainly is not some lying frog from the dragon's mouth. Or is he?

What would Lucifer say?

(I'm waiting for the Greek professionals to let me know whether it is 'Son' or 'son', so bear with my italics, please.)

 

[kcnalp]

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts.

Jesus is certainly God!

 

[robert derrick]

The Case Against the Trinity



Figurative reference to God not Jesus.

You just want to ignore John 20:17, Jesus going to his God? And Jesus saying God is far greater than him, knows more than him, selected him, told him what to say and gave him authority, without God Jesus has no authority and how Jesus only says what God tells him to say?

Figurative reference to God! Yes, of course! Brilliant! Beautiful! I actually thought you might try some real Greek sleight of hand, but no! It's just figurative! God in this verse is just figurative! Now it all makes plain sense! How could I have been so blind??

Ok, enough of that.

Now, the Word was God is only a figurative reference to God, not Jesus. So the Word was likewise just figuratively referenced to being with God? So, Jesus the Word was only figuratively with God in creation, and all things were only figuratively created by him. So, Jesus the son and word of God is simply figurately of God. So God's word is only figurative!

Got it!! No wonder you are able to mystify everything in it!! It's not what is written that matters, so much as what is figurative about it! Which of course is to be explained by the figurative masters of all things Bible!! Or are you not only figuratively referring to Scripture? Is there anything in Scripture that is not figurative, since Scripture only figuratively refers to God? I wouldn't think so.

You people are not at all a serious people. Only a fool would engage with you any longer.

 

[kcnalp]

Figurative reference to God! Yes, of course! Brilliant! Beautiful! I actually thought you might try some real Greek sleight of hand, but no! It's just figurative! God in this verse is just figurative! Now it all makes plain sense! How could I have been so blind??

Ok, enough of that.

Now, the Word was God is only a figurative reference to God, not Jesus. So the Word was likewise just figuratively referenced to being with God? So, Jesus the Word was only figuratively with God in creation, and all things were only figuratively created by him. So, Jesus the son and word of God is simply figurately of God. So God's word is only figurative!

Got it!! No wonder you are able to mystify everything in it!! It's not what is written that matters, so much as what is figurative about it! Which of course is to be explained by the figurative masters of all things Bible!! Or are you not only figuratively referring to Scripture? Is there anything in Scripture that is not figurative, since Scripture only figuratively refers to God? I wouldn't think so.

You people are not at all a serious people. Only a fool would engage with you any longer.

Kingdom Hall twists nearly every verse in the Bible to mean something different. How Satanic is that?

 

[Wrangler]

Figurative reference to God!

Well, you did cut out the rest of my sentence, which was not Jesus. He is not mentioned until v14.

That so many desperately reach for the figurative language of John 1:1 shows how weak the argument is. And of course, you have to ignore many verses that proof Jesus is not God, like John 20:17, Jesus going to his God.

 

[kcnalp]

Figurative and Symbolic to Kingdom Hall means the Christian Bible is wrong.

 

[Curtis]

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8; Rev. 21:6; Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most knowledgeable modern Bible scholars:

Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,"

This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any NT Greek texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in nearly all modern translations or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994.

The problem with your post about Revelation 1:8, is that all the versions still have Jesus saying that in Revelation 22:13, so it not being in the first book is irrelevant, because He still says it in the last book:

Rev 22:12 "See! I am coming soon! My reward is with me to repay everyone according to his action.

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give this testimony to you for the churches. I am the root and descendent of David, the bright morning star."

Rev 22:20 The one who is testifying to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!" Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

 

[robert derrick]

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts.

Jesus is certainly God!

Very good. Another Scriptural confirmation that the Old Testament Lord and God is the New Testament Lord Jesus.

Created Jesus deists, attempt to worship 'Jehovah' over Jesus. it is just that simple. They are modern day Judaizers. They don't want to reject Jesus outright, but neither do they want to believe in Him only for salvation, redemption, and resurrection.

"And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only."

How about this: "...and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

The I Am is in Him, and well pleased to be so. The Son is in the bosom of the Father, and the Father is in the heart of the Son. I am in the Father, and the Father is in me...

 

[kcnalp]

Very good. Another Scriptural confirmation that the Old Testament Lord and God is the New Testament Lord Jesus.

Created Jesus deists, attempt to worship 'Jehovah' over Jesus. it is just that simple. They are modern day Judaizers. They don't want to reject Jesus outright, but neither do they want to believe in Him only for salvation, redemption, and resurrection.

"And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only."

How about this: "...and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

The I Am is in Him, and well pleased to be so. The Son is in the bosom of the Father, and the Father is in the heart of the Son. I am in the Father, and the Father is in me...

John 8:58-59 (NKJV)
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him;

They knew that Jesus was saying He is God!

 

[robert derrick]

Arianists, JW's, Jewish Judaizers, et al, who want to worship 'Jehovah' over the Lord Jesus are prime examples of ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And when they are finally at long last are compelled to address simple Scripture that refutes their whole scholastically learned and prosthetically engineered pseudo-doctrine of mystical proportions, they bail.

In the end, all Scripture is nothing but 'figurative reference'. I.e. relative to what I already want to think, because I have already been indoctrinated by very very very specially enlightened...what?

And so The Word was God, is true, but only in a 'figurative sense'. What absolutely childish rubbish. I mean, they couldn't even go to their Greek original text god Apollos for that one...

Well, then the Lord God is one God is figurative. It really means the Lord God is whatever you want him to be...

 

[Cooper]

While Jesus is the true God and Son of God both together, He is not God the Father. They are both God individually and One God together.

The mystery of the Godhead (Col 2:2): the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is trying to understand how that can be.

And because certain can't understand it in their carnal minds, then they must reject it as impossible. Which is fine, but then to launch off into pagan deism that the Son of God is a created being, who is not really God, but only like Him, and He was only created initially to help in the creation of God...

Can anyone say father Uranus and son Zeus? And you can throw in the 'Blessed Virgin Mary' as mother Gaia...

I do not see God as three individual persons, but as one eternal presence who revealed himself in the image of man.
.

 

[robert derrick]

John 8:58-59 (NKJV)
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him;

They knew that Jesus was saying He is God!

Amen brother. How ridiculous is it for a bunch of intellectually superior mystics to brag about their unitarian Jewish brethren in order to say Jesus is not God, and then part from their fellow Jewish Religion unbelievers, by not recognizing that the prophecies of the Messiah were concerning the Lord God Himself coming to earth to redeem His people Personally.

Which is why they knew Jesus was trying to make Himself God by claiming to be the Christ and Son of the blessed. They had Him crucified for being God, NOT for being a created angelic, sort of godlike, creational helper!

P.s. Jesus is the express image of His Person, not the created figurative outlook of His mind...

As I said. Those people are not a serious people, and only a fool would engage them.

Unless, you want to discuss the merits of apples over oranges, I suppose. I myself like the taste of oranges better, but apples are better for the kidneys. Or so I've heard. Any of you Jehovaites want to weight in on that one? But if you 'go to the Greek', I'm outta here.

 

[Cooper]

True, as in "God with us".

(Well not really with us in Person. But rather sort of with us when we see Jesus, who is sort of like God, but not God)

Those who believe, and are of contrite heart can be in the presence of the Lord Jesus here and now.
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[robert derrick]

Well, you did cut out the rest of my sentence, which was not Jesus. He is not mentioned until v14.

That so many desperately reach for the figurative language of John 1:1 shows how weak the argument is. And of course, you have to ignore many verses that proof Jesus is not God, like John 20:17, Jesus going to his God.

That is very figurative of you. I figure you probably have the best figuring in town about all this. Another configuration of desperation may be figuratively rewriting Scripture.

Jehovaites are NOT serious people.