Proof that Jesus is God

[ReChoired]

... begotten by God then God had to exist first.

As stated, "monogenes" has nothing to do with time. It deals explicitly with nature alone. Like the word "angel" has nothing to do with being created, but deals explicitly with being in office/position of messenger.

 

[ReChoired]

The Psalm is addressed to "the king" (verse 1), not to [JEHOVAH]

Of course the Psalms is addressed to "the King" (Psalms 40:7-8; Hebrews 10:7-9; Luke 24:27, &c). If only you understood who the real King is:

Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Rev_19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Psa 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Psa 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Psa 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Who descended to earth, Father or Son, that they afterward ascended?

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

If only you understood, then you could be saved, but because you do not, you cannot be saved. I am sad to tears (and some days numbness) over you, and so many like you, who can never enter eternal life, because you do not accept who Jesus really is, though He has shown Himself to you.

 

[ReChoired]

That's not how I read it (are you surprised? ).

No, because the carnal heart cannot accept the things of the Holy Spirit. It is also clear you do not understand how the scriptures work. "How [you] read it" is again the carnal heart and rejection of how God already gave it to you for understanding.

 

[Wrangler]

"Him" and "He" is not a Who? Oh please!

Strawman. A word is not a him or he. See John 6:60.

 

[keithr]

If only you understood, then you could be saved, but because you do not, you cannot be saved. I am sad to tears (and some days numbness) over you, and so many like you, who can never enter eternal life, because you do not accept who Jesus really is, though He has shown Himself to you.

Romans 10:9 (WEB): "that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

According to Paul I will be saved.

 

[ReChoired]

Romans 10:9 (WEB): "that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

According to Paul I will be saved.

You haven't accepted the word "Lord" as Paul draws from the OT. It's JEHOVAH. Not merely a 'king" ('lord', a ruler). For that you need the Holy Ghost, and you haven't accepted Him either. Therefore, being without the Holy Spirit, and without the Son, you neither have the Father. It's why I am sad for you.

I showed this already. You didn't see or hear (you chose not to):

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

You didn't even ask Jesus who He is.

 

[NayborBear]

No, because the carnal heart cannot accept the things of the Holy Spirit. It is also clear you do not understand how the scriptures work. "How [you] read it" is again the carnal heart and rejection of how God already gave it to you for understanding.

Oh Con'traire Con'traire!
Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Through a "process" I have come to call reverse osmosis.

 

[ReChoired]

Jesus is clear keithr:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[kcnalp]

Strawman. A word is not a him or he. See John 6:60.

God is not He? lol

You either didn't or can't read John 1!

John 1 The Word was God!

 

[BroRando]

The Hebrew and Greek languages often use feminine nouns to point to a creation. According to the strong concordance theos can be rendered two ways. One way, is in the Masculine sense as in the first instance of (John 1:1) But what about in the second instance as in John 1:1c? Isn't that scripture describing his qualitative sense? His divinity in being divine?


Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Short Definition: God, a god
Definition: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.

Many Scholars know this, but withhold the fact that theos can be rendered (a god) as it was with Paul and Moses. Other variations of rendering John 1:1 also exist:

1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English
1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists
1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation (Herman Heinfetter)
1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

When trinitarians can't show a scripture of three separate persons make up one God, they switch to Modalism, saying 'Jesus is God'. The trinity is like a three legged stool. Remove one leg and the trinity comes tumbling down. When the teaching of demons get expose they tend to taunt, scream, and hurl accusations. But very soon they will be abyssed. So now let's carry on to John 1:1c.


Other translations:

• 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
• 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
• 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron;
• 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
• 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
• 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
• 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
• 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
• 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
• 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
• 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen
• 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation
• 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
• 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
• 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
• 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
• 2017: “In the origin there was the Logos, and the Logos was present with GOD, and the Logos was god;” - The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart

 

[tigger 2]

I am apparently dealing with someone unfamiliar with koine Greek translation/transliteration into English letters. It is simple, allow me to show you:

ἥν - Wiktionary

Ancient Greek
Pronunciation

IPA(key): /hɛ̌ːn/ → /in/ → /in/

Pronoun

ἥν • (hḗn)

1. accusative singular feminine of ὅς (hós)

Adjective

ἥν • (hḗn)

1. accusative singular feminine of ὅς (hós)

Thus the "[h]" as I gave in transliteration, represents a sound, not a spelling, and thus is in brackets for that purpose. This is commonly utilized:

[1] - "KE THEOS HEN O LOGOS" - Tritunggal, berapa Tuhan orang Kristen ?

[2] - "«In principio era il Verbo (en archè hen o logos)" - Il Logos, fra pensiero greco e cristiano - Cortile dei Gentili

[3] - commonly utilized - "hen o logos" - Google Search

You are simply mistaken, and do not understand transliteration of koine Greek to English practices.

......................................................

From Kids' Greek Learning the New Testament Greek Language, for Children of All Ages :

Breathing mark
Okay. What's that squiggly thing over the epsilon?

ἐστιν

It is called a "breathing mark." There are two types of breathing marks.

· Smooth breathing, which is what we have here

· Rough breathing, which we will see in a minute.

Every Greek word that begins with a vowel is going to have a breathing mark. The breathing on ἐστιν is a smooth breathing mark. It opens up to the left as if it were a backwards c. It is not pronounced.

Then why is it there if it isn't pronounced? There is a long history behind the breathing mark, but I doubt you care. Maybe I will tell you later. For now, just remember:

· all words that start with a vowel have a breathing mark.

If it is a smooth breathing,

it opens up to the left,

it is not pronounced.

….………………..

From Biblical Greek Alphabet | GREEK FOR ALL | Koine Greek Alphabet :

Greek has two breathing marks. It can be either rough or smooth.
The rough breathing mark ( ῾ ) indicates that the first sound will have an initial “h” sound.
The smooth breathing mark ( ᾿ ) indicates that this initial “h” sound is absent.
...................................
Did you notice that these very elementary Greek lessons show that the breathing mark over ἦν (‘was’) is the silent one! The rough breathing mark which gives the ‘h’ sound in English transliteration is the reverse of the silent one.

kai theos een ho logos is how John 1:1c is transliterated in the Westcott and Hort interlinear. It would even be acceptable to transliterate it as ain by those who understand eta to be pronounced as ay as opposed to ee.


I resent the false accusation that I am wrong about this very elementary fact!

 

[kcnalp]

The Hebrew and Greek languages often use feminine nouns to point to a creation. According to the strong concordance theos can be rendered two ways. One way, is in the Masculine sense as in the first instance of (John 1:1) But what about in the second instance as in John 1:1c? Isn't that scripture describing his qualitative sense? His divinity in being divine?


Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Short Definition: God, a god
Definition: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.

Many Scholars know this, but withhold the fact that theos can be rendered (a god) as it was with Paul and Moses. Other variations of rendering John 1:1 also exist:

1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English
1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists
1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation (Herman Heinfetter)
1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

When trinitarians can't show a scripture of three separate persons make up one God, they switch to Modalism, saying 'Jesus is God'. The trinity is like a three legged stool. Remove one leg and the trinity comes tumbling down. When the teaching of demons get expose they tend to taunt, scream, and hurl accusations. But very soon they will be abyssed. So now let's carry on to John 1:1c.


Other translations:

• 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
• 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
• 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron;
• 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
• 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
• 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
• 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
• 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
• 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
• 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
• 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen
• 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation
• 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
• 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
• 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
• 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
• 2017: “In the origin there was the Logos, and the Logos was present with GOD, and the Logos was god;” - The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart

So you're saying Jesus is a false god. Pity you on Judgment Day!

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

 

[Cooper]

The Hebrew and Greek languages often use feminine nouns to point to a creation. According to the strong concordance theos can be rendered two ways. One way, is in the Masculine sense as in the first instance of (John 1:1) But what about in the second instance as in John 1:1c? Isn't that scripture describing his qualitative sense? His divinity in being divine?


Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Short Definition: God, a god
Definition: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.

Many Scholars know this, but withhold the fact that theos can be rendered (a god) as it was with Paul and Moses. Other variations of rendering John 1:1 also exist:

1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English
1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists
1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation (Herman Heinfetter)
1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

When trinitarians can't show a scripture of three separate persons make up one God, they switch to Modalism, saying 'Jesus is God'. The trinity is like a three legged stool. Remove one leg and the trinity comes tumbling down. When the teaching of demons get expose they tend to taunt, scream, and hurl accusations. But very soon they will be abyssed. So now let's carry on to John 1:1c.


Other translations:

• 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament
• 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
• 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron;
• 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
• 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
• 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
• 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
• 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
• 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
• 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
• 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen
• 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation
• 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
• 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
• 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
• 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
• 2017: “In the origin there was the Logos, and the Logos was present with GOD, and the Logos was god;” - The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart

When there is only One God in the beginning, then 'a' god has to be THE God. So what you are saying is totally irrelevant, unless you can magic up another god.

The amount of time and effort that goes into producing nonsense is truly amazing.
.

 

[kcnalp]

When there is only One God in the beginning, then 'a' god has to be THE God.
.

I wonder if JW's believe they are gods. Wouldn't surprise me!

 

[Cooper]

I wonder if JW's believe they are gods. Wouldn't surprise me!

Apparently it's limited to 144,000.
.

 

[BroRando]

So you're saying Jesus is a false god. Pity you on Judgment Day!

No but rather Jesus is "the Christ the son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16)

If Jesu was God then Jesus and God would be interchangeable. You could easily insert God for Jesus... Look at the scriptures and see that they are alive and spit out the trinity doctrine.

IF Jesus is God, Can we assume GOD cried out My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)

 

[kcnalp]

No but rather Jesus is "the Christ the son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16)

If Jesu was God then Jesus and God would be interchangeable. You could easily insert God for Jesus... Look at the scriptures are alive and spew out the trinity doctrine.

IF Jesus is God, Can we assume GOD cried out My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)

You said Jesus is a god. Then He must be a false god or the real God. Which is it?

 

[BroRando]

You said Jesus is a god. Then He must be a false god or the real God. Which is it?

Scriptures say he is a god. Look into the Greek the first instance of God is not the same as the second instance.

In the first, depending on the Greek (ho theos) or (theon) was used which means the God.
Second instance (theos) is used and the natural use of theos is in the feminine sense meaning a god.

So, for (theos) to mean God, a definite article would be added. Therefore, (ho theos) the God in the first instance only.

According to scripture, "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.' (John 1:18) <~~~~~ Click and see that theos was in the Greek.

Trinitarians removed God from scripture. Would an honest person remove God from scripture?? Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten god. So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (John 1:14)

Take Care.

 

[Curtis]

A word is not a who. That is how you know it is figurative. All prophets speak the word of God. The Word (of God) is not a who but a what. The same Greek words are used in John 6:60 that is translated ‘this’ word not ‘who’ word.

A word is a who, when they’re called the word who was WITH God, and WAS God.

It takes TWO to be WITH each other. You can’t be WITH yourself, only BY yourself.

The word was born into the world that HE made, John 1:12, 14.

The word IS CALLED A HE in John 1 - your interpretation is not even close to accurate.

 

[Wrangler]

A word is a who

No. A word is spoken by a who. Check the dictionary.

John 1 says it?! Sad Appeal to Circular Reasoning.