Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Dave L]

And we called to put on Christ. A disciple is not above His Master. But when a disciple is fully trained....he shall be just as His Master.

Do you know who said that?

Hint: it wasn't Yoda.

You cannot have sinless flesh until after the resurrection. You can avoid sin in spirit by catering to it though.

 

[Episkopos]

You cannot have sinless flesh until after the resurrection. You can avoid sin in spirit by catering to it though.

Are you also a gnostic? You divide what we do with what we are?

 

[Episkopos]

You don't understand that God uses the wicked flesh to form our character. If it was refined, we would not have character.

Too bizarre to comment. I will stop typing now.

 

[Dave L]

Too bizarre to comment. I will stop typing now.

No sin to battle = no character.

 

[Dave L]

Are you also a gnostic? You divide what we do with what we are?

Just a bible student.

 

[Episkopos]

Just a bible student.

That's what the gnostics said...and what JW's call themselves too.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You don't understand that God uses the wicked flesh to form our character. If it was refined, we would not have character.

1 Corinthians 5:5-7
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Isaiah 54:16-17
[16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

Matthew 3:12
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

John 6:63
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This confuses me: the ugly nature of my flesh is the very thing that drove me in agony toward God. God uses the weapon for good, so that through the destruction of the flesh, the spirit is saved.

But in some people. The flesh is what prevents them from seeing. Bitterness. Hatred. Pride. Greed. Resentment. Pain. Fear. Vanity. Brokenness. ...is there a too broken?

How is it the flesh can either drive you to God, or away from Him? 1 Timothy 4:1-2
[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[H. Richard]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.
“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

 

[H. Richard]

If what you say is true then no one will go to heaven because all mankind sins.

Jesus' shed blood on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world but only those who place their faith in it will be saved.

If, as you say, He only paid for past sins then that means He (Jesus) must shed His blood each time a person sins.

You really should study Hebrews.

Think about it!

 

[farouk]

I’m well aware of the conflict. I experience it too. But, careful, in saying a new creature created in Christ sins...meaning sin will carry on into the new creation. To imply all remains under Adam instead of under Christ rule. God says sin will be no more in the new creation; no more raging seas. Peace.

Ephesians 2:8-12
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Philippians 3:17-21
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. [18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: [19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Hebrews 11:15-16
[15] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.(to the old) [16] But now they desire a better country , that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Philippians 2:4-5
[4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
—how can you look on the things of others while you mind what you came out of and left behind as if you desire to return to the old? If you are always minding the flesh instead of mindful of the power and Spirit of God.

Consider: your OP shows there is no forgiven sins (future) in a new creature...all has been made new in Christ. Don’t dirty it by calling what is created in Christ unclean.

Also:

"...My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2.1).

 

[Dave L]

That's what the gnostics said...and what JW's call themselves too.

What is the evidence of your sinlessness? How does it show up?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If what you say is true then no one will go to heaven because all mankind sins.

Jesus' shed blood on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world but only those who place their faith in it will be saved.

If, as you say, He only paid for past sins then that means He (Jesus) must shed His blood each time a person sins.

You really should study Hebrews.

Think about it!

Does a new creature created in Christ sin?

 

[Episkopos]

What is the evidence of your sinlessness? How does it show up?

I'm not talking about me but about Jesus and abiding in Him. It's about any who abide in Him. Anyone who abides in Christ doesn't sin. A holy person doesn't sin. But of course it is still possible to sin...if we are not fully weaned from this world.

The evidence of sinlessness in a person who abides in Christ is that they are without any kind of spot or wrinkle. They are as Jesus in this world.

1 John 4:17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.

 

[farouk]

Does a new creature created in Christ sin?

S/he won't want to! Indwelling sin is still there until we are raptured or die; but we need to take up our crosses daily and follow Him.

 

[Episkopos]

If what you say is true then no one will go to heaven because all mankind sins.

Jesus' shed blood on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world but only those who place their faith in it will be saved.

If, as you say, He only paid for past sins then that means He (Jesus) must shed His blood each time a person sins.

You really should study Hebrews.

Think about it!

You are seeing all of mankind as the same because you have not seen something that transforms men into Christlikeness....at least not yet.

God is merciful.

God is not legalistic although He is a God of law.

God has instituted a new law...the law of faith in Jesus..so that they who abide in Christ have the same life as Jesus had.

That is the law that is according to grace...and what the gospel is preached upon. A NEW law that makes a NEW covenant.

When we abide in Christ we cannot sin. No one can sin in God's presence. Especially they who hate sin.

A born again person loves God and His ways...so then add in the grace to do as Jesus did...and VOILA! ..a holy person in the image of God Himself.

Be perfect and holy as God is! This is a commandment. Through grace we can fulfill it.

 

[Episkopos]

S/he won't want to! Indwelling sin is still there until we are raptured or die; but we need to take up our crosses daily and follow Him.

If you want to cease from sin..take up HIS cross and take on HIS life. Then you will walk in HIS power. THAT is the gospel and the power of grace freely given to they who believe TO (or into) Jesus.

 

[farouk]

If you want to cease from sin..take up HIS cross and take on HIS life. Then you will walk in HIS power. THAT is the gospel and the power of grace freely given to they who believe TO (or into) Jesus.

Romans 8 - reading the whole chapter - expresses it well.

 

[Zachary]

The way I understand is we have eternal life.

I like your post, Dave.
But, what do we do with the 20+ NT verses which do obviously
warn about losing eternal life, IF we choose to continually sin
(IMO, without sincere repentance).
Another 80+ NT verses hint at this w/o actually coming out
and threaten loss of salvation.
I treat the second group as simply confirming the first group.

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 8 - reading the whole chapter - expresses it well.

We overcome the flesh (power) by the Spirit (power). Romans 8 in a nutshell.

Just like we overcome gravity (law) by the power of flight (law).

 

[Zachary]

So then the word of God and the spiritual walk are there to help in the saving of our souls.

IMO, we have been given to help us ...
1) the Holy Spirit
2) the new creation
3) the word of God
IMO, no excuses to not be sanctified (made holy).