Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[GodsGrace]

we just treated this, and while i got no real affirmations i also don't recall any serious challenges to the notion that Paul was really outlining a way to tell certain stories in the 3rd Person so as not to be perceived as boasting. Just a theory, but note that heaven is really only mentioned, no specifics of the journey are forthcoming iow?

on a related note, where do we go when we are dreaming?
How can we be sure that that place is not more real than here?

You're right. Paul was so humble after his conversion. He was even worried HE might not make it to the end of the race!

As to dreaming...yeah, I gotcha. I love science fiction.
Did you see Matrix? I liked it.
And many more like that...The Thirteenth Floor.
Wow...

 

[bbyrd009]

What's darnel?

tares, false wheat, the hallucinogenic stuff? wow, i spelled that right 2nd try, woo-hoo

 

[amadeus]

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." I John 3:9

it isn't Word, which must be heard, but regardless of that i did not say that the v was apparent, either, so i'll reload and allow you to address the post if you like,
iow "...according to your interpretation of the v," not denying that the v exists, mmmkay?

Then again, who is "born of God" and when does that happen and when it does, what does it mean? Perhaps this also is a large part of that 'name it and claim it' problem. If everybody that says they have been born again really has and they are really striving to following Jesus now, why is planet Earth still such a foul, place filled with so many supposed believers who look just like those who don't know God at all? Can we tell the difference between them?


"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Titus 1:16

 

[bbyrd009]

You're right. Paul was so humble after his conversion. He was even worried HE might not make it to the end of the race!

you might contemplate his thorn as being worshipped by those he meant to serve too, just another theory that i can't disprove right now though. seems to fit

 

[GodsGrace]

tares, false wheat, the hallucinogenic stuff? wow, i spelled that right 2nd try, woo-hoo

Congrats!

Can you spell hallelujah???!!!
I think I STILL can't??

 

[bbyrd009]

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Titus 1:16

man, i knew this v existed somewhere, why it doesn't search i can't figure
ty!

 

[amadeus]

we just treated this, and while i got no real affirmations i also don't recall any serious challenges to the notion that Paul was really outlining a way to tell certain stories in the 3rd Person so as not to be perceived as boasting. Just a theory, but note that heaven is really only mentioned, no specifics of the journey are forthcoming iow?

on a related note, where do we go when we are dreaming?
How can we be sure that that place is not more real than here?

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." I Cor 2:9

 

[amadeus]

man, i knew this v existed somewhere, why it doesn't search i can't figure
ty!

Keep on working at it my friend. When you need it will it not be given to you?

 

[Helen]

of course you are inferring "after we literally die" here, but interesting to me how applicable your statement is to right now for most Christians, who often express this same sentiment about right now, huh? This "i don't know what God wants me to do" thing? Anyway, fwiw i believe we go somewhere too, only this "i" that believes that will not survive the trip, being as how i made him up!

No, I am not referring to when we literally die.
Enoch says that "heaven" is a literal place...far out beyond our universe.. streets of gold and all that....
I am saying that if we had a vehicle/ space rocket powerful enough we would never ever reach heaven.

If it is literal and is 'really' out there....then why do we need Jesus ...it must be attainable without Christ The Door.

I believe the Kingdom is within us , ( Because Christ is within) right here...therefor our inside is bigger than our outside ...it is another realm, with just a thin veil between, so out of sight. Not miles away on some private galaxy.

How do you see it?

 

[Zachary]

Why not expound on why I am deceived?

Because only the Lord can reveal the Truth to those who are deceived.
You have rejected man's best efforts, so it's up to God.
Will He be successful? ...
News Flash: Sometimes God is not successful.
News Flash: Sometimes God chooses not to reveal the Truth.
News Flash: Remember, man has free will.

 

[Zachary]

Bless you...Helen

Yes indeed, bless you...Helen.
Heads up ... Bless you, Helen ... is totally different than Bless you...Helen
I.E. Is Helen BB or ByGrace?

Meanwhile, is ByGrace a "grace-only" advocate?
How about a "greasy-grace" advocate?

Grace is God's part ... Obedience is our part.
Yes, it's a co-operative effort.
We are not mindless robots ... we have free-will.
(a) Do you think we CHOSE to believe in Jesus and His gospel Truth?
(b) Do you think we CHOOSE to be faithful obedience slaves (er, servants)?
Quiz answers below at the very bottom (chuckle).
Quiz answers: (a) no, (b) yes
.

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you see it?

same way i guess. No literal heaven to be seen with two eyes anywhere, yes

 

[Jun2u]

If you had actually studied the Bible you would know there are two places referred to as paradise in the Bible. One is also called Abraham's bosom and is in the earth. The other is heaven.

Lazarus was OT. At death OT saints went to paradise, not heaven. None entered heaven until Christ led them there in train at his resurrection.

1 Corinthians 2:11-16
11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the spirit of God.
12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14) But the natural man receiveth NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know because they are spiritually discerned.

Armed with the verses above, we know that the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning.

Are you spiritual?

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Abraham is a picture of the Father NOT paradise as you teach. Lazarus is a picture of all true believers which are safe in the arms of the Father. And the rich man and his brothers are a picture of all the unsaved. BTW, we call this figures and types.

There I’ve given you the outline and really the answer also but go and study. It’s too tedious if I have to expound everything for you.

It is not really difficult to understand Scripture. Once we find the keywords, Scripture verses will begin to open up through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

SEE Hebrews Chapter eleven to know where all the Old Testament saints went before Jesus came into the world!

In fact, Enoch, Elijah, and Moses were in heaven when God dispatched them to the Garden of Gethsemane to comfort Jesus. Paradise is a synonym for heaven.

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Armed with the verses above, we know that the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning.

I disagree.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Abraham is a picture of the Father NOT paradise as you teach.

Nope. Abraham and Lazarus were in paradise, not heaven. The rich man was in hell. His brothers were still live.

Somebody in hell cannot see into heaven.

There I’ve given you the outline and really the answer also but go and study. It’s too tedious if I have to expound everything for you.

I've probably been studying decades longer than you.

It is not really difficult to understand Scripture. Once we find the keywords, Scripture verses will begin to open up through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

When you spiritualize everything you make its a what you want it to say. That makes it easy but inaccurate.

SEE Hebrews Chapter eleven to know where all the Old Testament saints went before Jesus came into the world!

Your position sounds like reincarnation. There was no resurrection before Jesus and will be none for us until the rapture.

Live once, not twice.

In fact, Enoch, Elijah, and Moses were in heaven when God dispatched them to the Garden of Gethsemane to comfort Jesus. Paradise is a synonym for heaven.

Enoch and Elijah have yet to die. It does not say Moses came from heaven.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Paradise is empty J.
Now there is only heaven or hell.
Read Mathew 27:51

Since you did not elaborate, I don’t know how you understand Matthew 27:51. This verse really speaks of the culmination of the divorce between God and National Israel. This verse also teaches that all the promises God had made to National Israel were fulfilled, and this condition of the blindness in part of Israel will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, that is until the last gentile has become saved.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Since you did not elaborate, I don’t know how you understand Matthew 27:51. This verse really speaks of the culmination of the divorce between God and National Israel. This verse also teaches that all the promises God had made to National Israel were fulfilled, and this condition of the blindness in part of Israel will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, that is until the last gentile has become saved.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

What has that got to do with the topic we were discussing?

 

[Jun2u]

What has that got to do with the topic we were discussing?

This is how you read Scripture also without looking and understanding what you read!

FYI, the post you responded to was addressed to @GodsGrace!

To God Be The Glory

 

[GodsGrace]

Since you did not elaborate, I don’t know how you understand Matthew 27:51. This verse really speaks of the culmination of the divorce between God and National Israel. This verse also teaches that all the promises God had made to National Israel were fulfilled, and this condition of the blindness in part of Israel will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, that is until the last gentile has become saved.

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

What do you mean you hope it helps?
I didn't ask you anything!

That one verse sure does teach a lot,,,I don't know where you learned your interpretation.

Mathew 27:51 states that when Jesus died on the cross, the veil to the inner part of the temple, the HOLY OF HOLIES, was torn from top to bottom. Before Jesus died and in the sacrificial system, only the High Priest was allowed to enter,,,now, after Jesus' sacrifice, EVERYONE can enter into God's holy of holies and have access to Him. Whoever wants to enter, may enter.

Before Sunday and the resurrection, Jesus went to Paradise to free those that were waiting there in Abraham''s Bossom in full comfort. They had been waiting there from O.T. times because the doors of heaven were closed for entry, but now they are open. This is probably spoken of in 1 Peter 3:19.

Now, when we die, we go directly to be with God.
Philippians 1:23

Thus, Paradise is empty now.

 

[CoreIssue]

This is how you read Scripture also without looking and understanding what you read!

FYI, the post you responded to was addressed to @GodsGrace!

To God Be The Glory

You are dodging again.

As well, GodsGrace liked what I said.

Why did I say that was wrong?

 

[Enoch111]

Thus, Paradise is empty now.

Not according to the apostle Paul, who was there personally and witnessed everything in Paradise.

2 CORINTHIANS 12
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.