Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[CoreIssue]

Not according to the apostle Paul, who was there personally and witnessed everything in Paradise.

2 CORINTHIANS 12
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Three places have been called paradise in the bible:
Eden
Abraham's bosom
Heaven

Remember, Christ descended into the pit and led the saints up to heaven.

What does the Bible mean when it says Christ descended into hell?

Ephesians 4
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Christ told the thief he would be with him in paradise that very day. But Christ did not go to heaven until three days later.

That that is because they entered paradise that very day and three days later ascended to heaven.

 

[Enoch111]

Three places have been called paradise in the bible:
Eden
Abraham's bosom
Heaven

1. The synonym for Eden is Paradise. Although there is no specific Scripture which tells us this development which came next, it is implied that after Adam and Eve were driven out of Eden, Paradise was removed to Heaven. To further clarify this, the New Jerusalem is the heavenly city within Heaven (the third heaven, or God's Heaven), and Paradise is within the New Jerusalem.

How do we know this? We know that the tree of life was in Eden, but now it is in the New Jerusalem: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:1,2)

This is further confirmed in Rev 2:7: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

2. Abraham's bosom was not called -- and never was -- Paradise. Kindly go through every Scripture referring to Sheol in the OT. Unfortunately the KJB should have simply transliterated this word. Instead they added to confusion by using the words "hell", or "the grave", or "the pit". But you will never find Paradise within Sheol/Hades. It was simply the abode of the souls and spirits of the dead, with Abraham's bosom on one side, and the place of torment on the other side. None of the OT saints could enter Paradise before the resurrection of Christ.

When we read "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), if we place the comma after "today", and place "thou" before "shalt" (as the modern versions have done), it become clear that the promise was to be with Christ in Paradise after 3 days and 3 nights (when He was resurrected and took all the OT saints with Him to the New Jerusalem), not on the same day. It was imperative that Christ remain in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights as He Himself prophesied. But Paradise was in Heaven.

 

[CoreIssue]

1. The synonym for Eden is Paradise. Although there is no specific Scripture which tells us this development which came next, it is implied that after Adam and Eve were driven out of Eden, Paradise was removed to Heaven.

No it is not implied anywhere.

To further clarify this, the New Jerusalem is the heavenly city within Heaven (the third heaven, or God's Heaven), and Paradise is within the New Jerusalem.

The New Jerusalem is not a heavenly city. It is the place prepared as our eternal home on the New Earth, which does not exist yet.
How do we know this? We know that the tree of life was in Eden, but now it is in the New Jerusalem: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:1,2)

There are many trees of life in the New Jerusalem. Not just one. So you're thinking is flawed.

This is further confirmed in Rev 2:7: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

As I said before, there are three places that have been called paradise in the bible, not just one.

2. Abraham's bosom was not called -- and never was -- Paradise. Kindly go through every Scripture referring to Sheol in the OT. Unfortunately the KJB should have simply transliterated this word. Instead they added to confusion by using the words "hell", or "the grave", or "the pit". But you will never find Paradise within Sheol/Hades. It was simply the abode of the souls and spirits of the dead, with Abraham's bosom on one side, and the place of torment on the other side. None of the OT saints could enter Paradise before the resurrection of Christ.

There are two places off the bottom of the bottomless pit, paradise in hell.

I know as says about Sheol/Hades. That is obvious you do not.

What Is The Difference Between Sheol Hades Hell Gehenna

What is Abraham’s bosom?

When we read "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), if we place the comma after "today", and place "thou" before "shalt" (as the modern versions have done), it become clear that the promise was to be with Christ in Paradise after 3 days and 3 nights (when He was resurrected and took all the OT saints with Him to the New Jerusalem), not on the same day. It was imperative that Christ remain in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights as He Himself prophesied. But Paradise was in Heaven.

There is no comma.

It says they went to heaven, not the New Jerusalem. It also says he went to prepare a place for us, the New Jerusalem. So it did not already exist.

 

[aspen]

Why would God kill his only true born son for half measures? If this were true, he would be some weird sort of masochist who has no idea of the nature of his creation after the Fall.

We sinned. We are sinners. We will sin. We need aSavior for all mortal eternity; nothing less.

 

[Enoch111]

It says they went to heaven, not the New Jerusalem. It also says he went to prepare a place for us, the New Jerusalem. So it did not already exist.

The New Jerusalem had already been built by God when Abraham saw it (presumably in a vision). NOW PLEASE NOT CAREFULLY:

HEBREWS 11
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

1. Did Abraham anticipate being in the New Jerusalem? Absolutely.
2. Is there only one city is Scripture which has twelve foundations? Absolutely
3. Is that city the New Jerusalem? Absolutely
4. Is there only one city whose builder and maker is God? Absolutely

So on what basis can you claim that the New Jerusalem did not exist when Christ was resurrected and when Hebrews 12:22-24 tells us that the OT saints ("the spirits of just men made perfect") are in the New Jerusalem?

 

[CoreIssue]

The New Jerusalem had already been built by God when Abraham saw it (presumably in a vision). NOW PLEASE NOT CAREFULLY:

HEBREWS 11
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

1. Did Abraham anticipate being in the New Jerusalem? Absolutely.
2. Is there only one city is Scripture which has twelve foundations? Absolutely
3. Is that city the New Jerusalem? Absolutely
4. Is there only one city whose builder and maker is God? Absolutely

So on what basis can you claim that the New Jerusalem did not exist when Christ was resurrected and when Hebrews 12:22-24 tells us that the OT saints ("the spirits of just men made perfect") are in the New Jerusalem?

Abraham looked forward to promises he knew would never be fulfilled in his lifetime.

Hebrews 11:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Hebrews 12:22-24 is post resurrection so you cannot apply it as if it was true in the OT.

Your reading from the KJV and it's archaic English.

 

[Helen]

Why would God kill his only true born son for half measures? If this were true, he would be some weird sort of masochist who has no idea of the nature of his creation after the Fall.

We sinned. We are sinners. We will sin. We need a Savior for all mortal eternity; nothing less.

....AMEN!!

 

[CoreIssue]

....AMEN!! View attachment 4505

Christ died as the Second Adam, a man. Only a man could pay the sin price.

 

[bbyrd009]

Christ died as the Second Adam, a man. Only a man could pay the sin price.

any clue why Christ would be telling us to pick up our crosses and follow if He paid the price, as you say? ty

 

[CoreIssue]

any clue why Christ would be telling us to pick up our crosses and follow if He paid the price, as you say? ty

Spreading the gospel, sanctification.

 

[bbyrd009]

Spreading the gospel, sanctification.

ya, i'm doing God's will too bro
lol

pls confront the real post, and stop with the wiggle wiggle for a sec? address the point if you would

 

[bbyrd009]

"Proof" threads

 

[CoreIssue]

ya, i'm doing God's will too bro
lol

pls confront the real post, and stop with the wiggle wiggle for a sec? address the point if you would

I have answered every post to me. No wiggled.

Be more clear in what you're asking if you're seeking something else.

 

[Enoch111]

Abraham looked forward to promises he knew would never be fulfilled in his lifetime.

Of course that was not fulfilled in his lifetime. After he died, Abraham's soul and spirit went to Sheol/Hades where *Abraham's Bosom* became the abode of the OT saints. After Christ's resurrection, he went with Christ and all the OT saints to the New Jerusalem. When Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews, Abraham was already in the New Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:22-24 is post resurrection so you cannot apply it as if it was true in the OT.

Did I even suggest that it was true in the OT? What I did suggest -- supported by Scripture -- is that the New Jerusalem as supernatural city had already been constructed by God, therefore Abraham was given a vision of this city, therefore Abraham looked for a city which has foundations, and therefore Abraham is presently in that city.

Your reading from the KJV and it's archaic English.

It may be archaic English, but at least it is TRUSTWORTHY ARCHAIC ENGLISH. Quite unlike all the corrupt modern Bible versions.

 

[Helen]

Well re the OP , I have yet to see 'proof' that we were only forgiven our past sin's.
Hmmm I wonder if Jesus knew that ....that He only did half of a job...

 

[Nancy]

Well re the OP , I have yet to see 'proof' that we were only forgiven our past sin's.
Hmmm I wonder if Jesus knew that ....that He only did half of a job...

Lol...you and I hadn't even committed a single sin when He died for "the sins of the world"...once for all! Finished, no repeat needed, it worked the first time ♥

 

[CoreIssue]

Of course that was not fulfilled in his lifetime. After he died, Abraham's soul and spirit went to Sheol/Hades where *Abraham's Bosom* became the abode of the OT saints. After Christ's resurrection, he went with Christ and all the OT saints to the New Jerusalem. When Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews, Abraham was already in the New Jerusalem.

Did I even suggest that it was true in the OT? What I did suggest -- supported by Scripture -- is that the New Jerusalem as supernatural city had already been constructed by God, therefore Abraham was given a vision of this city, therefore Abraham looked for a city which has foundations, and therefore Abraham is presently in that city.

It may be archaic English, but at least it is TRUSTWORTHY ARCHAIC ENGLISH. Quite unlike all the corrupt modern Bible versions.

Too many errors. It would take way too much time to correct you properly. Even the then, I don't think you want the truth.

We need to agree to disagree.

 

[amadeus]

Well re the OP , I have yet to see 'proof' that we were only forgiven our past sin's.
Hmmm I wonder if Jesus knew that ....that He only did half of a job...

All sins forgiven at the point we acknowledged and repented. When we changed our minds and sinned again after repenting, the new sins are not covered. It's back to Jesus again:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

 

[bbyrd009]

Three places have been called paradise in the bible:
Eden
Abraham's bosom
Heaven

11The word of the LORD came to me:
12“Son of man, lamentj for the king of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Lord GOD says:
You were the sealk of perfection,l
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.m
13You were in Eden,n the garden of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

All sins forgiven at the point we acknowledged and repented. When we changed our minds and sinned again after repenting, the new sins are not covered. It's back to Jesus again:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

but someone will say "i cannot possibly sin now Amadeus, bc i am in Christ now, just like It says right?"